Free will v.s Gods will

I would like to discuss peoples views on this.

1-Free will, one who is in contoll of his own destiny knows what will happen if one does or does not.

2-Gods will, people of faith who belives God is in contoll of everything and nothing you do can change fate.

So which one are you and why?you cannot be both even though a lot people think they are.

I myself belive in free will that I myself can choose between right and wrong also in preventive maintenance not letting things get out of control,then screaming why did this happen to me.

reply to post by teraform


God has two "wills"

1. Sovereign will which produces the universe.
We are bound to obey God's will in this area, Gravity is one of the laws.

2. Moral will which is absolute moral truth.
We can choose to obey or to disobey this will of God.
This is the arena where our volition or free will can be employed.

reply to post by teraform


My soul is composed of three parts 1. volitional, 2. emotional, 3. intellectual.

My intellect is required to know Gods moral will and to bend my desires, urges, cravings, vices into compliance with the moral will of God.

Hope this helps.

I'm in the free will camp on this issue. If something/someone was to be in control of my entire life, then what is the purpose in life, and why are we conscience ??

I believe that life is a balancing act, with the three factors being Fate, Will and Random chance. If your will is strong enough, many times you can get your way unless some stronger random factor comes along. However, most people are not strong enough to defy their fate, at least not by much. As for God's will, I'm pretty sure that is just the opinion of people who wrongly try to anthropomorphize the collective unconscious.

i am in the free will camp
i also believe in GOD

i don't follow a religion because they all break down, at some point, in regard to logic.

yet, just following GOD, i find logic to be the order of all that exists, both spiritually and physically.

i make my own decisions, within the framework provided by my environment, much of which has been shaped directly by my own previous free-will decisions.

i try to have foresight but i don't ALWAYS know the full extent of the consequences of my choice until they play out.

so i goof up, make mistakes, sometimes stupid ones and sometimes understandable ones. occasionally i really screw up and cost myself something i considered to be valuable.

i have never railed at GOD for these consequences but i always ask to learn from the experience and help in not repeating the same mistake again.

more often than not, i make mistakes only once. i keep making mistakes but they are new ones.

but i keep learning, too.

in the end, and this is the absolute truth, just to thoroughly address your question, the very worst screw ups, so far, have ended up being the best things that ever happened in my life because of the the course of events that followed. i gained more than i ever thought i had lost, to begin with.

and i guarantee you that i NEVER saw any of THAT coming, when i first made a poor decision of my own free will. in fact, i thought at the time that i could see farther than i was, and that i was absolutely doing the best thing, all things considered.

part of what made the screw ups so catastrophic, at first, was that they involved people in my life who meant the most to me and were important to my quality of life...and so i thought my decisions were weighted by that and therefore were more likely to be good sound choices.

but the opposite was true.

without free will i might be eating a mango, in the nude, in the Garden of Eden, blissfully free of all the crap polluting this present world.

i would not have experienced the misery, remorse, sadness, recovery, joy, reform, and countless other joys and sorrows that i have.

if the choice was mine, i think i'd eat the apple offered by the snake, even if i had full view of the future of each choice.

i'd love that snake forever for setting me free!

and i do!

thank you Eve
thank you Snake
thank you Adam
thank you GOD

Believing that I am free willed, it wouldn't debunk God.

Just because I have decisions, doesn't mean a chess master couldn't see 10 to infinity moves ahead.

My decisions are mine and no one elses. Stay conscious, stay clear, stay calm .

deleted


[edit on 8-7-2010 by Gmoneycricket]

Either God isn't all knowing or we don't have free will.
I don't see a way out of that.

reply to post by hippomchippo


not even outside of time, itself?

if anyone is viewing the events of time, from outside its limitations, meaning that there is no future or present or past, then wouldn't all things be seen, and therefore, known?

and if so, if that is how GOD views creation, how does that take away free will?

Originally posted by queenannie38
reply to post by hippomchippo

 

not even outside of time, itself?

if anyone is viewing the events of time, from outside its limitations, meaning that there is no future or present or past, then wouldn't all things be seen, and therefore, known?

and if so, if that is how GOD views creation, how does that take away free will?

Then God created us fully knowing everything we would do, therefore eliminating free will.
I don't see the problem in believing a God that just doesn't know everything..

[edit on 8-7-2010 by hippomchippo]

There's no "Free will vs. God's will". Free will is God's will.

Thank you Sham for your will thought out answer,I totally understand where your comming from.

So the score is right now 4-free will
2- undecided
2- Gods will

Maybe being all knowing, just means being aware of the possibilities, instead of micromanaging each individual life.


You can have your god and be free too.

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Then God created us fully knowing everything we would do, therefore eliminating free will.
I don't see the problem in believing a God that just doesn't know everything..

GOD knowing everything already doesn't mean that our choices are already made for us.

if GOD knows every single choice any of us will ever make in life, that doesn't mean we aren't the ones choosing.

we make the choices and still don't know what tomorrow will bring.

i still don't understand how omniscience negates free will and vice versa?

reply to post by teraform




"1-Free will, one who is in contoll of his own destiny knows what will happen if one does or does not.

2-Gods will, people of faith who belives God is in contoll of everything and nothing you do can change fate. "

Yeah, problem is, choice number 2 is a false dogma...God has a purpose for us...the word we use 'plan'...current deffinition/veiw of that word includes specific paths and choices with their results...that meaning is not used by God...he does not have a plan in the way we would. He has given us free choice, Adam and Eve used thiers, poorly.

His purpose will be accomplished, but it allows for us to take our sweet time , or as it would be said, the amount of time neccesary.

So, I choose #2 if you change the thought from plan to purpose, which allows me to choose #1 as well.

A good analalogy I heard a week ago, two men are taking seperate vacations, one has a plan, that includes each fuel station, rest stop and hotel. The other has the intention/purpose of making his way to his destination, and is ready to take advantage of whatever circumstances comes his way.
The one with the plan can be derailed very easily with distractions, detours, and business closures. The man with purpose, will use the diversions to his advantage and not be thown off balance with dificult circumstances.

(Isaiah 8:10) 10  " Plan out a scheme, and it will be broken up! . . ."

I did a quick search, the most often the word 'plan' was used in a positive way, was in relation to architectural plans...for building...in that case, you need things to be precise, and fit together without suprises
But the word purpose, the translation I used, very frequent when speaking of God's intentions.

(Acts 11:18)" . . .God has granted repentance for the purpose of life to people of the nations also. . ."
(Romans 8:28)" 28 Now we know that God makes all his works cooperate together for the good of those who love God, those who are the ones called according to his purpose. . ."
(Romans 9:11)" 11 for when they had not yet been born nor had practiced anything good or vile, in order that the purpose of God. . ."

reply to post by queenannie38


I love it when we can agree on something...

I think we do right?


God is all powerful, and CAN know anything He wants to know...but, is loving enough to allow us to make our own paths...if He can use us he will, if not, there will be others.

But, His will, will be done

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by hippomchippo
Then God created us fully knowing everything we would do, therefore eliminating free will.
I don't see the problem in believing a God that just doesn't know everything..

GOD knowing everything already doesn't mean that our choices are already made for us.

if GOD knows every single choice any of us will ever make in life, that doesn't mean we aren't the ones choosing.

we make the choices and still don't know what tomorrow will bring.

i still don't understand how omniscience negates free will and vice versa?

He would have created us already knowing the paths we would take though, thats the thing, all knowing would mean he would have knowledge of the decisions we would make throughout our lives before we were even born

We definitely have free will as we can see a causal relation between what we do or think and what we experience in our inner world and our outer world. If one changes their thoughts or actions the outcome will change either in the body, the bodies thought and feelings or in the outer world.

As mentioned by an earlier poster their are laws set in motion by the creator. In essence our universe is part of the creator as well as everything in it. As these laws are adhered to or broken reality changes not only on an individual level but a community, town, city, county, state, nation.

God's will is free will. Do we choose the spiritual path or do we choose the material path?

Perhaps when a soul follows the material path it is purified of all thought wiped clean by the fires over many years only to start over again fresh and until they get it right the process will continue.

So I guess what I'm saying is that we have free will that is the Creator's will, that is if we want to get it right. To know yourself as self and yet part of the Whole.