It wont rain oil....however...

Its easy to relax in a comfy chair in front of a computer screen when you are thousands of miles away from this crisis and the potential it has to create horrific environmental damage inland. Where I live its not uncommon to see topical moisture from the Gulf. So I feel a need to question your advice.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

So, recapping what I said:

1. It will not rain oil, as the components either too heavy in molecular weight, or will not bond with water molecules

If it can and does rain fish, newts, and frogs it sure as hell can rain oil!

2. Air pollution from the lighter chemicals may cause issues, but will be highly dependant on winds

Relax a little bit people, it will not rain oil, its physically impossible for this to occur, but as I mentioned, also be wary of winds and people with respiratory illness should pay particular attention to the forecast of wind directions.

I agree with relaxing but understand the situation as well. If I lived on the Gulf I would get away if possible. Even if the following video is the only way this oil gets inland, the number of tropical systems will depend on how bad it might get.

And If this oil acts as a warming mechanism for the waters in the gulf we could be in real trouble.



Im not arguing against the science OZ but I also don't believe in absolutes when it comes to science, because in this case we just don't know. We will watch and learn soon enough though.

I am worried about this.

If IKE made his way to KY how? Wind current? And so then how likely is it corexit makes it way into my airstream here in KY?

Thank you for your time.

reply to post by Chadwickus


No need to stress Chad, unless you scream death doom and horror, you will be considered a disinfo/BP agent etc..

It's funny, those who do it are acting more within an agenda than those they berate. It's us and them with no holds barred for some..

IF oil is, as considered, being sent up into the atmosphere via evaporation then the marine life would be boiling under the same circumstances and if it were natural then these vocal proponents have been silent in regards to it for ever up until now.

Are your oceans boiling, killing everything, to justify your arguments? Or is it just now you decide to think it happens???

Snap, why bother....



[lol edit, i bloopered]

[edit on 4/7/2010 by badw0lf]

reply to post by twitchy

A very simple site... you nailed that part.

Try to understand the difference between slightly soluble (as in carbonic acid) and soluble (as in sulfuric acid). I know the site you found didn't mention this, but it is an important facter... sulfuric acid is many orders of magnitude more acidic than carbonic acid.

When, oh when, will we get over this impotent carbon demon we have created?

TheRedneck

reply to post by twitchy

Then you're conversely saying that some of these lighter compounds will escape because of evaporation?

What he is saying is simply this:

There are lighter compounds coming out of the well; as a matter of fact, I have heard reports that up to 50% of the ejection is gas instead of liquid. Those gases will enter the atmosphere. But they will not condense and fall as rain.

Water has a unique property that allows the evaporation and formation as rain called "hydrogen bonding". In layman's terms, that simply means that single molecules of water can become highly excited by absorbing heat through molecular transformation from its neighboring molecules, while still remaining as H2O. When a molecule absorbs enough heat, it actually 'boils' independently and escapes into the atmosphere.

This is why water at room temperature evaporates. it is actually slowly 'boiling', and in the process it cools itself as hot molecules escape carrying their absorbed heat with them. We don't notice this heat escape because it is so slow, but it certainly exists. It also is the reason why evaporational cooling works.

Once water escapes as vapor, it of course cools back down rapidly as heat is then lost to the surrounding atmosphere. As it cools, it becomes a liquid, but this liquid is now dispersed as individual molecules. If the atmosphere cools beyond its ability to maintain these molecules in suspension as vapor (the "dew point") they begin to coalesce into water droplets, forming clouds or fog. When the droplets become large enough, they fall back to earth as rain.

No hydrocarbon does this. Even though the lighter crude components will enter the atmosphere, they will not condense back into a liquid. Now that is not to say that there may not be small traces of them in rainwater; rainwater as it falls can absorb small amounts of even insoluble materials. But there will not, can not be a condition on this planet given our current temperature range and atmospheric composition where a hydrocarbon evaporates form the ocean, condenses into a liquid form, and falls as rain.

That is all that is being said here.

TheRedneck

You are correct. That was never the issue . But thanks for your kind words.

Who even talked about rain with oil in it ?

I thought the main problem down there was the amount of sea life being effected by the oil . oil alone can create massive dead zones and look the amounts . Do the math and look at the sound science and you will understand why the effects on the gulf coast locally . If the oil spill can not be contained then yes we do have a problem . will it effect others ? who knows ? We have not had a tropical storm push the oil on the coast or beaches yet at the force that would make life hard down there. so to answer this question ..a big fat NO ..it may not rain oil ...

reply to post by OzWeatherman

Okay, Oil may not be raining, but it is Acid rain.

Originally posted by Alethea

Why have my flowers stopped blooming?
They were just coming into full bloom and were beautiful a few weeks ago. These flowers usually bloom continuously from late spring, all through summer and right into early winter.

Now, every bloom is gone. I am near the gulf and we have rain almost every day.

Crops, plants, animals, and soon to be humans are being effected by the rain.

So there is no doubt, that the oil spill still has caused the rain to change.

Not to mention the gulf's Oxygen producing algae is likely dead, so less O2 to mix with the any gases given off during the evaporation of oil and water. The Oil may not be directly evaporated due to what you said about the molecules bonds, but some chemicals do get through and the people of the area are noticing its effects on inland plants.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Quickfix

I can take this one....

What you are seeing is acid damage from acid rain. The acid rain is not from oil (or even any of its constituents) in the rainwater, but rather from an acidic chemical, probably sulfur. There are reports of extremely high levels of H2S in the area and that would lead me to believe that there is also an excess of SO2. Both chemicals are commonly associated with oil pockets. In the atmosphere, SO2 becomes H2SO4 (sulfuric acid) and can indeed mix with rainwater. Sulfuric acid is completely soluble in water, unlike hydrocarbons.

I am not 100% sure, but I believe hydrogen sulfide (H2S) can also convert into H2SO4...

TheRedneck

From a chemistry standpoint you are almost perfectly correct. However, being the hypertechnical sort. I would argue with you describing the process as hydrogen sulufide "converting" to sulfuric acid.It doesn't "convert. It reacts with oxygen. And it doesn't happen on its own. You have to pyrolize the H2S in the presence of oxygen. 2 parts H2S (gas) + 3 parts O2 gives you 2 parts water (H2O) and 2 parts sulfur dioxide. The SO2 then mixes with more O2 to give sulfur trioxide (SO3). That then mixes with water or water vapor in the atmosphere and is hydrated to form H2SO4. Of course it is easier just to start with the SO2 in the atmosphere from burning hydrocarbon fuels which contain elemental sulfur or metal oxides with sulfur. And if you are making sulfuric acid, it's a lot less stinky to use SO2. H2S is stinky, and I mean 5 year old little boy potty humor stinky.
You are correct that there isn't anything in the crude that mixes with water to form acid rain.

How molecularly heavy is Corexit? I wouldn't want that stuff raining down on my any more than I would want oil.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Completely true. However, what if a hurricane comes through? It can't rain oil but I'm quite sure that a hurricane has enough force to carry the oil and not rely on the evaporation process.

Why will this oil spill be any different to Ixtoc I in 1979?

Except that in 1979 there was no internet and therefore no dumb Americans willing to be scared #less by those who get their kicks by spreading fear and disinformation?



Anyway, why worry? The world ends in December 2012 anyway.

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
reply to post by Quickfix

 

I have seen that video, have you noticed where exactly that the video was shot?

Its right on a road. When you get rain, all the oil on the road form cars and other modes of transports floats to the surface of running water, and pools down the side of roads, which gives the appearance of flowing oil. I actually noticed this last week here in Australia. If the guy had actually captured some rain in a glass or something it would have been more convincing, but this video shows nothing but the ground, which indicates oil rain.

BTW, gunk in drains is also not an indication. All types of rubbish are floating into the drains, you cant simply blame it on oil

Good, but then, what if the heavier elements are "COREXITED" into a more evaporable form?

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Those thinking that the areas around the gulf will be affected by oil rain, need to relax and take a deep breath. Im not saying the oil spill isnt a bad thing, because it is quite a significant disaster, particulary for marine ecosystems, and coastal communities.

Now, oil cant actually evaporate as a whole. It is composed of many components, including benzene, hydrocarbons, nitrogen, sulfur and various heavy metals. The temperature at which oil will begin to break down and seperate these components is approximately 650F (400C), which is a temperature the earth is not capable of producing naturally. However, lighter components within the oil such as some hydrocarbon based gases will be lost in the few days through evaporation, while the heavier, more toxic parts of the oil (such as the polyaromatic compounds, which are the more carcinogenic compounds) will be left in the water.

Fortunantly, hydrocarbons will not bond with water molecules, meaning there will not be any trace of these within the water droplets and ice crystals forund in rain bearing clouds (including benzene). However, due to the light weight of these materials, they are able to be transported with winds. (Where and in how much of a concentration these affect, is highly dependant on wind directions and speed). This is probably why, many residents of beaches within close proximity to the spill, may expererience slight nasuea or headaches, along with a faint smell. Astnmatics shoudl take particlar care, as these chemicals have the potential to irritate the throat and lungs in high enough levels. Hopefully though, before it these materials reach inland, the chemicals will have been dispersed enough to safer levels.

So, recapping what I said:

1. It will not rain oil, as the components either too heavy in molecular weight, or will not bond with water molecules

2. Air pollution from the lighter chemicals may cause issues, but will be highly dependant on winds

Relax a little bit people, it will not rain oil, its physically impossible for this to occur, but as I mentioned, also be wary of winds and people with respiratory illness should pay particular attention to the forecast of wind directions.

I would almost believe your statement if not for the fact that it has already rained oil in Louisiana. Although, I don't believe that the oil is the most serious threat. Corexit 9500 is the absolute threat that could cause some serious damage. Also, I haven't heard much about that hurricane. Have you?

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Since people seem to not realize that a meteorologist (or three) should have some idea what he (they) are talking about....how might a comparison be useful?

By some estimates, over 13 million barrels of oil have spilled into the Delta. That’s the equivalent of one Exxon Valdez spill every year for 40 years, according to The Independent.

newsdesk.org...

The Gulf of Mexico? No! The Niger River Delta. In Nigeria. In Africa.

Check the historical records for any "oil rains" in that region...should be a pretty good way to judge what the potential (or lack) is regarding this most recent instance.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Well...not a good linky-dinky...here's another source:

www.nytimes.com...

[ I don't believe this!! Auto-censor seems to change the name of the country...it is "Nigeria"!!! Guess you'll have to type it in for yourselves!@ ]

And one more:

www.google.com...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Solved it...seems that "Nigeria" with a lower-case "n" triggers the auto-censor.... !!!




[edit on 4 July 2010 by weedwhacker]

Nope no way water can pick up hydrocarbons and redeposit them because it is obvious ya'll know nothing of steam distillation.
Before any more of you embrace ignorance study up on this
www.chemguide.co.uk...

If steam distillation were not such a common method of removing non-polar oils from aqueous solutions these ignorant posts of the "impossibility" of hydrocarbons entering the water cycle could be excused, but people have been recovering non-polars this way for centuries. This makes the ignorant statement about the impossibility of such occurring in the atmosphere not just ignorant but dangerously ignorant
So to you folks saying no way...google steam distillation and start denying ignorance rather than spreading it.
N.
Edit to add this process occurs at any temperature water vapor is generated and the amount of a non-polar taken up is directly related to the volume of water vapor formed. In other words the gulf water is working just as a lab flask would but more slowly. This is however made up for by the shear size of the contamination area.
That is it in a nutshell how hydrocarbons enter the water cycle. It is easily researched and has been used to separate hydrocarbons from solutions for centuries.

[edit on 4-7-2010 by N.of norml]

Relax a little bit people, it will not rain oil

What you meant to say was it will not rain oil naturally.

What if the PTB actually fill hundreds of tanker jets full of oil and spray it on the whole southern America. OH NO. Then we have a false flag and a disaster of epic purporsions .

Just think on how hard it is going to be to get all of the crude oil off the windshields of vehicles. OMG.

TPTB want to make us suffer and they will spray us with oil ONE WAY OR ANOTHER>>>>> MUHAHAHAHAHA

The tongue and cheek thing.

Originally posted by PsychoX42

...it has already rained oil in Louisiana.

There is no evidence this has happened - show me meteorological evidence rather than a youtube video and you may have a point. Short of a tornado there is very little likelihood of such an event happening, whatever the scaremongers, scam artists and disinfomations might want you to believe. Sometimes it pays to think for yourself and not believe whatever you see on youtube.

Also, I haven't heard much about that hurricane. Have you?

What hurricane? Alex? I've heard rather a lot about it. There have not been any others yet.

reply to post by OzWeatherman

pure disinformation:-) many light crude's compounds evaporate faster (at the lower point of degree) than water. maybe people of the coast smell fumes of not oil?:-)

reply to post by weedwhacker


Bit Weedy, that's in Africa and doesn't count We alll know that if something has happend dozens of times elsewhere in the world over the past few decades without anyone even noticing, then if it happens today in America it'll cause the Stautue of Liberty of collapse. the President to turn into a Reptilian, the Moon to explode and 10 billion people to die. Horribly. Tomorrow. How stupid are you?

reply to post by 4nsicphd

Thanks for the update. As I said, I wasn't sure about the conversion process specifically, but just looking at the chemical formulas (H2S + 2O2 -> H2SO4?) made me think it was possible.

The thing that worries me is that typically where there is H2S from an oil well there is also SO2, which process I am familiar with and which is almost certainly contributing to any acid rain that is being reported..

TheRedneck