Israel denies report on SA nuclear arms offer

Israel denies report on SA nuclear arms offer

www.iol.co.za

The Guardian said documents declassified by South Africa's post-apartheid government at the request of the academic, Sasha Polakow-Suransky, included top-secret minutes of meetings between senior officials of the two countries in 1975.

Those papers, the newspaper said, showed that South Africa's defence minister at the time, PW Botha, asked for nuclear warheads and his Israeli counterpart Shimon Peres, now Israel's president, offered them in "three sizes".

(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:
www.guardian.co.uk

See also: (attached Guardian link)


This is gold, historical records showing Isreal disseminating nukes, or at least offering to. The deal did not go ahead we are told due to cost.

So everything else aside, Isreal was selling Nukes (IN 3 SIZES!!) on the international market. How is this going to affect current Iran nuclear accusations?

I'm astounded. Who else as Isreal made this offer to?

www.iol.co.za
(visit the link for the full news article)

Harry, this is indeed a huge story. I posted my response on a previous ATS thread:
Link

S&F anyway because this news should be headlines all over the world

Yup, i think we were both posting at same time, but he beat me!

Yes, Everyone on earth should see this. Peres can deny it easily enough, but it's his signature.

ISRAEL ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE OWNERS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

With his evidence, they can demand NOTHING of Iran. I wonder what Iran will say about this?

I notice France is very quiet - they were very complicit in helping South Africa with technology and weapons in the 1970's.

When I was in the military in the late 80's we even had Swiss experts helping us with our new radar system on the 35mm anti-aircraft Oerlikon's that we had bought from them.

So much for neutrality and arms embargoes.

[edit on 24/5/2010 by deltaalphanovember]

The sour-mouthed ultra-pseudo-Christians will ignore this thread. They religiously believe Khazars can do no wrong. I am bumping this thread. The KPTBH (Khazars pretending to be Hebrews) will do anything for money. That is why they were expelled from every country in the past and Australia just expelled one of the bloody-mouth Khazar. Britain recently expelled one of these bloodthirsty inhuman KPTBH's also. If only five people were survived in the world and one of them was a Khazar, that Khazar would find a way to sell something to those four people and make them go to war.

[edit on 24-5-2010 by TSawyer]

Originally posted by harryhaller
ISRAEL ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE OWNERS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

With his evidence, they can demand NOTHING of Iran. I wonder what Iran will say about this?

Israel has shown a great deal of restraint since their alleged acquisition of nuclear weapons, thus demonstrating that they are indeed responsible owners of nuclear weapons.
The same cannot be said for Iran which continually calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Iran therefore would be the epitome of an irresponsible owner of nukes and should not be allowed to own them.

ZA unfortunately once the jewel of Africa is a thing of the past on the world stage. Their farmers are being mudered wholesale, crime rates are on the level of Sao Paulo and the infrastructure is crumbling. I have been there quite a few times and I can tell you ZA in the 70's and ZA now is like comparing Detroit from the 50's to Detroit now.

Their military, once one of the most professional in the world, can barely train their pilots and leadership incompetence is rife. The Afrikanners are in fear for their lives and fleeing in droves if they have the money. Once a thriving state, it has fallen victim of beautiful diversity and is going the way of Rhodesia.

I have no doubt they either had or were in negotiatons for nuclear weapons during the cold war, but now they have trouble just keeping the facade of a functioning government going.

reply to post by intelgurl


Great restraint?

They were offering nuclear weapons to countries against which there were UN sponsored sanctions? And you call that restraint?

The worst possible crime that they are accusing Iran of is POSSIBLY passing these on to 3rd parties who should not have possesion of these. Iran as yet has done nothing wrong, yet Isreal wants to bomb Iran, for something that Isreal itself IS ALREADY GUILTY of?

Just remember that Isreal has never joined ANY global nuclear watchdog, and to this day has never submitted to any inspection of any sort.

Iran however, has followed the letter of international law in this regard. And are currently under an open house policy with the various inspection teams. They have to be.

reply to post by intelgurl


I rather admire Israel and the Israelis for their fighting skills and the creation of a modern state from nothing in the middle of nowhere.

However, I must agree with Harry on this one. Israel should never have been involved with South Africa for any reason during the apartheid years.
We were essentially a rogue state willing to use the nuclear option on our neighbouring states.

Of course Israel denies. Does anyone here ever remember them admitting to anything crooked? As most criminals will often tell you... they're innocent!

IRM

Oh well, a apartheid country (Israel) helping other then apartheid (S.A). Israel proved that it's motivation is only for money and profit and that's why they offered a apartheid country such as themselves nuclear weapon.

They also denied using Australian passports but we know that was a lie too.

I think it's fairly safe to say anything they outright deny is true.

reply to post by belial259


It's natural tendency of greedy country who want to make quick buck steal, spy and sell to rogue nations. Tomorrow they won't hesitate selling it to Al Qaeda or Taliban also if they can get good price for it.

Your Australia comment reminded me Australians turned out to be pretty smart not fooled by Israeli propaganda and are kicking a Israeli ambassador out of Australia.

Australia to expel Israeli envoy over Hamas op


[edit on 24-5-2010 by Crimson_King]

It suprises me that this seems to come as such a surprise to so many here. It's been pretty obvious since as far back as 1979 that South Africa and Israel have enjoyed a cozy exchange of nuclear and other weapons technologies.

Was SA the supplier of the uranium for isreals bomb stocks?
from where did isreal get all the materials to make these weapons?
Could the Sa, have the raw stuff to trade for weapons in return?
Then is believe isreal offered them the bomb...(in three os as many sizes as it took to get the fissionables)

reply to post by treesdancing


It's because it's a bunch of kids.

They have no sense of history nor reasons why the world is as it is.

reply to post by deltaalphanovember


They built their state in the middle of nowhere with hard earned money, courtesy of US tax payers. Also how much of their military is US hardware?

As for Restraint, SAMPSON option anyone??

Originally posted by stirling
Was SA the supplier of the uranium for isreals bomb stocks?
from where did isreal get all the materials to make these weapons?
Could the Sa, have the raw stuff to trade for weapons in return?
Then is believe isreal offered them the bomb...(in three os as many sizes as it took to get the fissionables)

This is a complicated question but a very good question.

We have to get in the way back machine for a trip.

France and Israel had an agreement in which a nuclear reactor was built in the 50's. Israel wanted enriched Uranium and Plutonium, for research purposes, but France and the USA told them no under no uncertain terms.

JFK came into power and the Israeli lobby thought a demoncrat was easier to deal with than President Eisenhower. Eisenhower had fought the ETO and really meant to hold nuclear power in check. Well JFK wouldn't play either. JFK was killed then President Johnson took over. No real friend of Israel either.

France had stopped helping Israel in their reactor by the mid 60's.

Now who really set this up has been a matter of debate to this day. Israel was able to acquire 200 tons of yellow cake, which can be processed into enriched Uranium, from a company in West Germany and supplied by the French.

After this transaction, Israel didn't really need a source of Uranium. As a side note, Israel had bought more than several tons of heavy water from Norway in the 50's also. It was used for research purposes.

Now all the pieces are in place by the mid 60's.

Now for the rub. Access has never been allowed to Israel's nuclear facilities. One of the very first thing done would be to test the material to get a "fingerprint" of the different isotopes. This is a way to track and trace the origin of nuclear material. Testing of their material would determine absolute origin and tell you immediately who supplied the material.

A reason Israel has never allowed this, and the USA has never really pushed this testing; may have a simple answer. There were reports from the late 60's that nuclear material (mainly Plutonium) missing from US repositories and may have made it's way to Israel. This has never been confirmed but testing of Israel's material may answer this question once and for all.

That's the main players on the nuclear side.

Now the South Africa connection. Nuclear research is what SA wanted, Israel wanted medium range missiles. SA had these. Now it's just a marriage of warhead with delivery system. Not a shotgun wedding but a marriage of convenience.

This fairly well covers it.

Originally posted by intelgurl

Originally posted by harryhaller
ISRAEL ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE OWNERS OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

With his evidence, they can demand NOTHING of Iran. I wonder what Iran will say about this?

Israel has shown a great deal of restraint since their alleged acquisition of nuclear weapons, thus demonstrating that they are indeed responsible owners of nuclear weapons.
The same cannot be said for Iran which continually calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. Iran therefore would be the epitome of an irresponsible owner of nukes and should not be allowed to own them.

Considering Israel denies having nuclear weapons I would expect them to be VERY restrained in their use. Sale however is another story.

It's hard to prove you sold something to someone if you claim to not have that something isn't it?

As for Iran asking for destruction of Israel, please show me a quote of them calling for that.

The one quote from I think a couple of years ago, was EXTREMELY mis interprated and mis-translated on purpose.

The propaganda machine in the US and Europe against Iran is strong.

~Keeper