US Soldiers: the jackboots

So this thread will upset a lot of patriotic Americans. Boohoo. Moving along.

How is it that no bad can be said for "our boys"in the military. fighting for "freedom and justice" and a disability pension.

We moan and complain about a lot of things, the current world wide armed conflict which is sapping our energy, making enemies and just generally messing the world up for us, most of all.

But everytime i discuss these issues with specifically Americans, although the English and Australians too, i get told how wonderful these soldiers are, and what a brave, good job they're doing.

BS.

When will we be able to point our fingers at these soldiers and say: you are wrong, you are the enemy! For being the boot that crushes. Fair enough you're only a boot, and the man who wears the boot controls where the boots stands. But let's get real, while the "soldier" is glorified throgh drivel like AVATAR your sons and daughters will keep going to some exotic place to murder anyone deemed a "threat", and return either dead or disabled (mentally counts too). Nobody leaves war sane.

I'm not saying little Johnny is bad, i'm saying little Johnny is doing bad things. I'm saying somebody better take little Johnny and tell him to stop. Unfortunately, if you don't, when little Johnny gets back from the terrorist lands, he WILL be bad.

Conscientious objectors, WHERE ARE THEY? And why is this status quo encouraged by the very people that proclaim they want the troops out? If you want the president to bring the troops home, just don't give him any more troops?

Take the troops out, the military, not just a country. Bring them home. And take those stupid boots off!!!

Rant over. I really do want some answers here.

Yes yes yes....this anti-war hippie # was done in Vietnam.

Nothing new to see here...

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Yes yes yes....this anti-war hippie # was done in Vietnam.

Nothing new to see here...

Yes, and people still haven't learned?

What will it take?

Originally posted by harryhaller

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Yes yes yes....this anti-war hippie # was done in Vietnam.

Nothing new to see here...

Yes, and people still haven't learned?

What will it take?

Nothing.

War is in mankind's nature. Man has been fighting wars since the beginning of time, and we'll be fighting wars till the end of time I think.

I'm no fan of war, but I don't really expect anything to change...

Originally posted by Darkrunner


War is in mankind's nature. Man has been fighting wars since the beginning of time, and we'll be fighting wars till the end of time I think.

I'm no fan of war, but I don't really expect anything to change...

Can't argue there with the first part.

I'm arguing against the second. Perhaps i don't even expect change, but it's worth trying for ... and that change starts at home.

You can't stop them sending more troops, unless they have no troops to send. Of course that means conscription, but that can be resisted too.

It's just like the mental programming that is drilled into the soldiers' heads in training and every day of their service. You are supposed to obey or you might as well be one of the terrorists. Then when they come home missing an arm or a leg or with their brain scrambled, the military does absolutely nothing to help them adapt back to civilian life. Have any of you seen the movie "Brothers, with Tobey Maguire, Jake Gyllenhall and Natalie Portman? Granted, I imagine his experience was not typical, it does illustrate the situation that many traumatized veterans probably live with.

Originally posted by warpcrafter
It's just like the mental programming that is drilled into the soldiers' heads in training and every day of their service. You are supposed to obey or you might as well be one of the terrorists. Then when they come home missing an arm or a leg or with their brain scrambled, the military does absolutely nothing to help them adapt back to civilian life. Have any of you seen the movie "Brothers, with Tobey Maguire, Jake Gyllenhall and Natalie Portman? Granted, I imagine his experience was not typical, it does illustrate the situation that many traumatized veterans probably live with.

Your post hits the nail on the head?
Just remember not all think like you.
Some fight for their country out of sheer beauty of the mind.
Some dont know they just do it as apprentices do apprenticeships.
But know this imagine what they those who see combat, experience.
But try and understand they did this for us.
Do not sell them short
THey suffered for a cause whether right or wrong.
I want to shout it , they are our heroes.
RIGHT OR WROMG DO NOT TURN YOUR BACK
They above all inc politicians, scientists should be nurtured and cared for if need be they are the heros, right or wrong they were men.
God Bless Those who served.
No excuses.

reply to post by harryhaller


www.youtube.com...

The American people were lied to and manipulated into this war like every war.

We have no business in Iraq or anywhere else.

Research how much money is spent on supporting "the war machine".

It's a scam and most sheeple have fallen for it.

The enemy isn't "over there" they are right here and they are getting richer by the minute off of the death of fellow human beings.

So this hippies thinking is not alone.

The thing is, how do we get people to refuse to serve the military?

Because what i see, is that they are actively encouraged by the "brainwashed" community that it's honourable.

It's not, and we need to make it DIShonourable to serve.

I'm a compassionate person, but maybe it's time to drop vets, as the military themselves do. Sorry son, but it's your own fault you're a cripple.

Originally posted by harryhaller
So this hippies thinking is not alone.

The thing is, how do we get people to refuse to serve the military?

Because what i see, is that they are actively encouraged by the "brainwashed" community that it's honourable.

It's not, and we need to make it DIShonourable to serve.

I'm a compassionate person, but maybe it's time to drop vets, as the military themselves do. Sorry son, but it's your own fault you're a cripple.

Iam not a soldier nor a former one.
But it stime for you to surrender and admit your bigotism is unjust or not.
Dishonour for those whon serve?
Do I know the level of guts to serve? I know not half, Iam a coward.
And I say that with 100 per cent clarity.

reply to post by Dr Conspire


It takes "guts" to walk into a bar and pick a fight with the biggest guy there.

Doesn't mean it's honourable.

If you walk into a shopping centre, and pick a fight with just anyone, that is dishonourable. End of story.

Soldiers deserving honour is a stupid idea that needs to be stamped out.

Here's your answer - wearing those "boots" is the only job available to many young American men and women. Some of them joined genuinely thinking that we had been attacked on 9/11 by Al CIAda and honestly believe that they are protecting our country from further attacks. It's not what I believe but they do. Many of us here have been working for years trying to get our government to end the wars to no avail. We the people have lost our voice and carry no weight with the government anymore. Be careful who you paint with that broad brush of yours.

reply to post by harryhaller


While I agree with your ends, I'm wary of your means.
Many are forced through circumstance to choose a military path; the poor man seeking a way out of poverty, the criminal seeking the restoration of his good name, and even the man seeking citizenship in the nation he serves.
Certainly, all are accountable who participate in an unjust war. But if a leader garners a greater share of glory, surely he should accept a greater share of blame.
Sadly, it seems there will always the genuine need for a citizen to become a soldier. I don't consider profit a genuine need. There's a difference between the soldier defending his country and the general motivated by greed.
I, for one, will continue to admire the righteous warrior while I abhor the self-righteous warrior class.
It's just getting so darn hard to tell the difference.

reply to post by harryhaller


You're an idiot with misplaced anger. The military goes nowhere unless our ELECTED LEADERSHIP tells them. No active military member is in Iraq or Afghanistan because they want to be there. Any one who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

As for the conscientious objectors, you know the military has been a voluntary force since 1972 or so. We don't draft anyone. Everyone is there by choice and volunteered. Your conscientious objectors are people like you who don't join the military but say crap out of ignorance.

Yes, the soldier is partly to blame for the war. One thing overall has lead to this: they were lied to about the motive for the war. The real threat is not from terrorists but from wealth. We had to go in and take that oil before the power it represents would be used against us. Our leaders decided stealing would be a good thing for our country but they forgot to let us in on the plan. For this reason I pity the mislead soldier. It is very sad to see a proud tradition turned into a hired thug job. A righteous warrior does not steal but I suppose this is just the beginning of the scramble for the last of our planet's resources.

Originally posted by hinky
reply to post by harryhaller

 

You're an idiot with misplaced anger. The military goes nowhere unless our ELECTED LEADERSHIP tells them. No active military member is in Iraq or Afghanistan because they want to be there. Any one who says otherwise doesn't know what they are talking about.

As for the conscientious objectors, you know the military has been a voluntary force since 1972 or so. We don't draft anyone. Everyone is there by choice and volunteered. Your conscientious objectors are people like you who don't join the military but say crap out of ignorance.

Thank you for your kind words ... you're wrong though.

So i suppose them being volunteers is a good thing?

We WANT to be jackboots ... so they DO deserve what they get?

It's these arguments that got me to posting this thread. So i suppose that fact thet you're hungry makes it ok to go somewhere else and make someone else hungry?

Asktheanimals:
I agree that the leaders deserve a greater share of blame. At this point, NOBODY is carrying the blame, and i'm sorry, but your leaders are no more elected than ours. It's BECAUSE your voices carry no weight with the leaders that i suggest this action.

And yes, i'm painting any serving military with the same brush:
brainwashed dogs of war without even the humanity of a conscience? (they don't accept fault for their actions, they can blame the higher ups)

We call people like that psychopaths.

23refugee:
So a guy who can't get work, but stays home and plays on his computer is a waste of time. But a guy who can't get work that goes to shoot a gun at whoever he is told to, suddenly becomes worthy????

Criminals redeeming their honour? Rubbish. How about community service? You know, IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITIES??? Why on earth would sending them into somebody else's back yard with a gun redeem anything?

Why give them anything other than the contempt they've earned?

ASIDE: It was Roosevelt who famously had a plaque on his desk, saying: The buck stops here. I'm saying those days are over. The buck stops with you reading this, and your children and your friends children.

Jees, the more you tell people to climb out their (fox)hole the more they keep telling you it's warm there, and safe.

A soldier serves because of conviction

Conviction that he is protecting his country from harm. Most of them are young and idealistic. Such idealism is honourable, for old men will never be able to give a good accounting in the field.

These young soldiers gives the nation their youth and their vigour, not for the govt, but for the people. They are not fighting for the president or king, or the elected representatives, or the corporate bosses. They are fighting for their families, relatives and friends.

These had been how our civilisation grew from our barbaric past. The civilised nation had no fear for any barbarians, as long as the young are prepared to protect, for barbarians are only motivated by selfish plunder and nothing else.

These people are prepared to take hard training and had, took sweat toil and had shed blood. And they are prepared to even sacrificed their own lives for their loved ones. There is no higher honour than this, in the face of clear and present threats from other human turned animals

Without them, the animals would have walked all over us and enslaved us long ago.

No, the soldier is innocent. They deserve our praise and our blessings for their sacrifice. It's the masters of these soldiers who must be held accountable once the truth for warfare is known. We must never fear the truth, to give credit where it lays and blame where it falls.

The hippies of the 60's anger was not directed at the soldiers. There were directed at the morons in Washington when the Pentagon Papers surfaced.

It was the morons who made the error and sacrificed thousands of young american lives. These very morons continued to make use of the soldiers to protect them against the hippies by sowing discord between these 2 groups even till today.

Today we realized too late the war in Iraq had been a mistake. Too late because we can no longer pull out and leave a country in ruins. Our soldiers are there maintaining the peace till the Iraq people understands democracy and universal freedom.

And in the meantime hunt down the animals responsible for the murder of thousands of americans and humans on Earth, the terrorists who screamed 'Allah Akbar' into the soon to die innocent humans.

No, we must NEVER dishonour these courageous young men and women. Look into the capitols and corporations of every nation, the leaders, who through their pride, greed and stupidity, had sacrificed our young fellow humans and prepared to sacrificed more.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
A soldier serves because of conviction

These had been how our civilisation grew from our barbaric past. The civilised nation had no fear for any barbarians, as long as the young are prepared to protect, for barbarians are only motivated by selfish plunder and nothing else.

Thats a very good post, thanks for that.

Yes, thats how it's always been. America was screaming CHANGE just the other day. Seems americans agree with me on this.

Unfortunately no sir you are wrong, americans are not in Iraq keeping the peace, never were, never will be. Saddam was good at keeping the peace there. That's why he was encouraged, and given weapons, conventional and chemical. And calling it a mistake is too little too late. The only thing the american invasion has done has sown discord and horror amongst what was a very civilised society. The american soldiers destroyed everything that was good there. AND STILL CLAIM HONOUR.

And in the meantime hunt down the animals responsible for the murder of thousands of americans and humans on Earth, the terrorists who screamed 'Allah Akbar' into the soon to die innocent humans.
...
Look into the capitols and corporations of every nation, the leaders, who through their pride, greed and stupidity, had sacrificed our young fellow humans and prepared to sacrificed more.

Um, you just found both the problems at the same time. Not in Iraq, in YOUR american cities. See, you are perpetuating the lie.

Is a sacrifice not part of the rite? Even more so if willing ...

Originally posted by harryhaller
23refugee:
So a guy who can't get work, but stays home and plays on his computer is a waste of time. But a guy who can't get work that goes to shoot a gun at whoever he is told to, suddenly becomes worthy????

Criminals redeeming their honour? Rubbish. How about community service? You know, IN YOUR OWN COMMUNITIES??? Why on earth would sending them into somebody else's back yard with a gun redeem anything?

Why give them anything other than the contempt they've earned?

You've mistaken my attempt at civility for agreement with your opposition.
It may surprise you to learn that I consider your stance one of a "righteous warrior". In this situation, your opponents will force you to be just that. I don't think " jack-booted thugs " are open to any debate on this matter.
I also think that had we retained the draft, we might have prevented the formation of a "self-righteous warrior class". With an all volunteer force, can you determine who serves from a sense of duty and who serves to gain some reward?

Let me give my take on this.

On the Morning of September 11 2001, I was sitting in my moms living room. I was 30 years old strung out on Meth, no job, nothing to offer society besides criminal activity and no future.

I wasn't alone in that living room, A Navy Recruiter was there as well. She knew of my circumstances and knew I wanted something more out of life than being a loser. She had come over to go over the final details of the paperwork and to make sure I was staying clean.
We all know what happened that morning. We watched the buildings fall together before she was recalled by her superiors. I didn't waver from my commitment, knowing any battlefield or boat or station would be better than the life I had made for myself.

Not going to any boring details, I finished training and did my time in the fleet. I kept my nose clean ,saved as much money as I could and led a respectable life. I was proud of myself. I had come a long way and I owed a great debt to my country.

I was sent to Iraq in 2007 as a ISR platform maintenence tech/mech. ( UAV Tech/Mechanic). I served a year there, did my job, and supported some of the Nations finest soldiers.

I did my job well enough to get recruited for Special Assignment.
I now work in Special Warfare with a TS/SCI clearance.

The military has spent in the last two years over 1 million dollars on me for training.
I repay it by never being home and being in harms way. I'm not complaining.

I work with some fine outstanding individuals and some total tools as well. We have all kinds here. We have guys who believe in the 9/11 conspiracy to guys who get angry if you talk #e about George W.
It's all relative and we are all human.

Say what you will. I will never give you that garbage about I'm fighting for your freedom. Because, right now, I'm not. I could eventually do that, but I doubt it. I plan on exiting the military in 18 months. I don't know what I'm going to do,but I'll have a plan. I'll contribute to society the best way I can. I'll excercise my right to vote and maybe if we could wake some more people up we could actually take our Country back.

I'm proud of my service to my Country. I owe it that much. She helped me to my feet. And, when I get out , I will try and do the same.