Plane carrying Polish president Lech Kaczynski crashes near Russian airport, CONFIRMED DEAD

My heart goes out to all of Poland and each person personally affected by this tragic loss of life.

The problem I see with all of this is not so much whether or not Russia had anything to do with it, but rather, whether or not people think Russia had anything to do with it.

My understanding is that this President was very popular with its people, not so much with Russia and especially not with Putin.

People tend to think that Presidents' aircrafts are incapable of merely crashing and *may* look for someone to blame. I am hoping that this tragedy does not turn into a blame game if there is no blame to be placed other than on the pilot that had no business apparently trying to land at that airport in such a dense fog.

Lastly, this quote made me raise my eyebrows a little:

"The role of the Polish president is not quite ceremonial ... he has some very real powers, but at the end of the day, the day-to-day running of the government is in the hands of the prime minister and the (cabinet) ministers," Valasek said. "Continuity is assured in ways that would not necessarily be assured in the case of the death of the U.S. president."

Link: www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by Vitchilo
CONFIRMED.

THE PRESIDENT AND HIS WIFE KILLED.

(on Sky News TV)

Indeed this is really strange... let's hope Poland ain't taking this as an assassination...

Because Poland is in NATO... and an attack on NATO is an attack on everyone, and that means WW3.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Vitchilo]

Our president is a great big Puss! The worst he would do is (after he bent to kiss the ring on Putins hand) polish it wrong with his tongue!

If Reagan or someone were in there? Then you would have an issue.

Vladimir Stalin Putin, he is the one to prove my point of the USSR just sleeping. I like most of the folks from there (and the Nordic Russian women are amazing!) but I dont like their military. Barbarians.

I think this is interesting

"The Katyn massacre, also known as the Katyn Forest massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katyńska, 'Katyń crime'), was a mass murder of many thousands of Polish prisoners of war (primarily military officers), intellectuals, policemen, and other public servants by the Soviet NKVD, based on a proposal from Lavrentiy Beria to execute all members of the Polish Officer Corps. Dated March 5, 1940, this official document was then approved (signed) by the entire Soviet Politburo including Joseph Stalin and Beria."

en.wikipedia.org...

I wasn't aware of the Soviet Holocaust against the Poles.

"Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 96, officials said.

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

The crash devastated the upper echelons of Poland's political and military establishments. On board were the army chief of staff, national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said."

An eerie coincidence?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by filosophia]

President Lech Kaczynski and Many Polish Officials Killed in Plane Crash in Russia

economycollapse.blogspot.com...

Many pics from crash site to be found in here:

en.rian.ru...

EDIT:

Plane crashes almost to terminal itself... Fog is still bad in these pics.

en.rian.ru...

[edit on 10-4-2010 by JanusFIN]

they found both black boxes i guess we will have recordings in the next few days

I got an odd feeling about this one. The polish president dies on Russian soil in an "accident" a few days after two very interesting news stories hit the press.

1 is that Poland's parliament is urging Russia to make public all the documents about the 1940 massacre of Polish people by Russian soldiers.

www.ynetnews.com...

2nd is that Poland just discovered a large supply of gas shale that could end Russia's stranglehold of that market

www.thefirstpost.co.uk...

Just a little too convenient

reply to post by lpowell0627


You make some very good points. It will be interesting to see how the story is reported in the mainstream media. I would like to hear interviews of Poles to get their perspective, but I suppose it's a bit emotional right now. My heart goes out to all those affected by this.

Originally posted by filosophia
I think this is interesting

"The Katyn massacre, also known as the Katyn Forest massacre (Polish: zbrodnia katyńska, 'Katyń crime'), was a mass murder of many thousands of Polish prisoners of war (primarily military officers), intellectuals, policemen, and other public servants by the Soviet NKVD, based on a proposal from Lavrentiy Beria to execute all members of the Polish Officer Corps. Dated March 5, 1940, this official document was then approved (signed) by the entire Soviet Politburo including Joseph Stalin and Beria."

en.wikipedia.org...

I wasn't aware of the Soviet Holocaust against the Poles.

"Polish President Lech Kaczynski and some of the country's highest military and civilian leaders died on Saturday when the presidential plane crashed as it came in for a landing in thick fog in western Russia, killing 96, officials said.

Russian and Polish officials said there were no survivors on the 26-year-old Tupolev, which was taking the president, his wife and staff to events marking the 70th anniversary of the massacre in Katyn forest of thousands of Polish officers by Soviet secret police.

The crash devastated the upper echelons of Poland's political and military establishments. On board were the army chief of staff, national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers, the Polish foreign ministry said."

An eerie coincidence?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by filosophia]

Yes, this fact makes it look like something more than coincidence. Very symbolic. Makes me think, that what´s really behind this?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Amandla]

reply to post by BlackJackal


thx for those links i guess im so sick of whats going on in USA that i stoped payng attention to wth is going on here on our soil...

i never liked our president but i would not wish such tragic death to anyone :/
we will have more data as we get full list of passangers (maybe some underdog was a target) and the black boxes.

i hope it was just an acciedent.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by reassor]

This recent news event does not sit well with me, and others should look at it with skepticism as well. It may very well be pilot error, poor weather conditions, or faulty instrumentation or equipment on the airplane? However, it could be something far more tragic and sinister? The Polish delegation that was killed in this crash was on their way to a big event commemorating war dead who were killed execution style by Josef Stalin and his NKVD thugs in the forest of Katyn in 1940. Looking at the list of dignitaries aboard this flight it is certainly a who's who in Polish politics, and important officials to say the least.

If this incident was indeed an accident it could be one that bears fruit for Moscow and their attempts to make inroads in Poland and to further their agenda? The parallels of this incident could not be more striking if it was a work of fiction, but the sad thing it is real. Then, we have the Prime Minister of Russia, Vladimir Putin, signing on before the bodies are accounted for to head the investigation of this plane crash?

Poland is a sticky issue for the Russian Federation, and I am sure it has a lot to do with Poland's insistence to break the chains of unfettered influence by Russia going all the way back to the Czar, the inroads they have made with NATO and the EU, pursuing oil and energy contracts with companies other than Russian oil giant Gazprom, and the missile defense shield with the US. There are just so many parallels to contend with about this sticky issue, and then add to it the relations between Russia and Poland at this juncture, which can be considered as rocky to say the least. I certainly have my suspicions about what went wrong?

At the very least, hopefully Polish investigators will be given full reign to conduct their own investigation independent of the Russian authorities? That should bring the conspiracy theories to cessation. I will be watching this one closely. My condolences to the Polish people over this tragic loss.

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Jakes51]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Jakes51]

I just wrote a letter to my dad who is living in poland, he´s a history teacher and of course very interested in political affairs. Hope he answers as soon as possible, so I can share the informations with you from media and people from poland.

In this moment I´ve heard, they found the black box.

edit: grammatic

[edit on 10-4-2010 by Numino]

reply to post by JanusFIN


I do believe you are on the right track if it's not an accident. I would suspect the west, and Russia is the perfect scapegoat...and the horror of Katyn...interesting stuff. How much was the Polish president against the anti-missile system?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a0ce9be131ad.jpg[/atsimg]
One Problem..........Eliminated.

reply to post by Naphariel

i don't think russians would assasinate most of Polish government in a russian-made plane on russian soil while landing on a russian airport...

"

Why not? I think it is a perfect plan because we now have a lot of people saying: "i don't think russians would assasinate most of Polish government in a russian-made plane on russian soil while landing on a russian airport..."

You know the whole "reverse psychology" thing.

Seems most (especially MSM) will think the same thing: no way they would plan it out like this. too easy. too obvious.

Sometimes it works to do the obvious in front people's faces because they so easily dismiss the obvious. Sometimes the truth is best left out in the open because people EXPECT it to be hidden and go seraching elsewhere for it.

Just my .02

I think many obvious signs point to this being Russia. Thing is, we will never know the truth. Never. We will be scratching our heads over this just like 911 for years to come.

[edit on April 10th 2010 by greeneyedleo]

reply to post by ironfalcon


WOW! The guy's Wiki page is already updated with information that the Polish PM died in a plane crash today. Pretty quick!?! And the story was retrieved on April 4, 2010?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by ibiubu]

Originally posted by Signals
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a0ce9be131ad.jpg[/atsimg]
One Problem..........Eliminated.

I think its just an accident, but nice pic, i am a fan of putin.

Originally posted by ghostsoldier

www.youtube.com.../watch%3Fv%3Dnucwf6DvpG4

One of the comments that accompanies this video on YouTube is more than a little intriguing:

"This is clearly a cover-up for the Polish governments involvement in the "Ukraine Swine Flu" outbreak that turned out to be a bioweapon made by Baxter . Polish officials were involved in making sure deaths were incorrectly reported as H1N1 . A few weeks after the E U demands an investigation into the fake outbreak , the whole Polish cabinent is destroyed."

Hmmm..............



[edit on 10-4-2010 by nuffsaid747]

[edit on 10-4-2010 by nuffsaid747]

The Wiki page for the Polish President has been updated to include his death. I wonder how the other information on this page was changed? Anybody have access to what the page looked like one month ago for comparison?

[edit on 10-4-2010 by ibiubu]

This is such a devasting loss for the people of Poland.

I have traveled to and around Russia via airplane. I cannot recall the airline when I flew from Moskva to Ekaterinburg, but I do recall the quality( or lack of) the condition of the airplanes. I felt as if I had jsut climbed in the backseat of a camero. The flights were always turbulent, regardless of the weather.

It does seem rather ironic that such an event would occur when all but a few of the leaders of Poland were at the same place, at the same time.

Russians have a reputation for playing dirty when it comes to politics, as do we all.

It is important not to assume or disregard anything at this point until further "details" are known