US Special Forces used Knives to Carve Bullets from Pregnant Woman's Body

. . . the American-led military command in Kabul admitted late on Sunday that its forces had, in fact, killed the women during the nighttime raid.

The admission immediately raised questions about what really happened during the Feb. 12 operation — and what falsehoods followed — including a new report that Special Operations forces

dug bullets out of the bodies of the women

to hide the true nature of their deaths.

A NATO official also said Sunday in an interview that an Afghan-led team of investigators had found signs of

evidence tampering

at the scene, including the removal of bullets from walls near where the women were killed. A senior NATO official later denied on Monday that any evidence tampering occurred.

www.nytimes.com...

And they blocked medical attention to survivors while this horsecrap was going on so wounded died in the interim.

survivors of the raid said that the special operations forces denied the wounded medical treatment and prevented survivors from going to get medical help for an extended period of time, during which one of the women and one of the men who were mortally wounded died.

That means special operations forces were busy digging bullets out of walls and/or people to cover their asses while the innocent people they shot bled to death.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Like the 5 schoolboys who were rousted from their beds in the middle of the night, with reports of them handcuffed & then executed.

The Pentagon is a war criminal, anti-America terrorist organization, endangering everyone's lives on the planet, most notably the American public who foots the bill for all their atrocities to the tune of trillions of dollars for hookers, strippers, rapes, torture, murder & flat out theft.

And at least one reporter is shaming the conspiracy of silence by other so-called journalists there.
www.niemanwatchdog.org...

This just enrages me.

WTF is wrong with you America?
End these monsters in your very midsts who instead of being honored should be tried & executed.

reply to post by slank


If any of this is true than is only a confirmation of the world being raped by some individuals and that no one has the authority to stop them.

On the other hand....when such stories appear with women, pregnant women, children, handicapped persons and old men being the victims, all kind of alarmbells and warning lights are going off. These warnings tell me to be extra cautious and not to take everything as it is written.

reply to post by zatara


As a former Soldier and A veteran of the Iraq and Afghan wars, I am cautious about accepting the story out right. I still find it hard to believe that American Forces are doing this. However with that being said if those troops were ordered to do it, they should face jail time as well as the people who gave the orders...

US troops, we know that we are suppose to do, and what were not suppose to do. We know that illegal orders do not have to be followed, and we know the chain of command will turn on you in an instance. Do not allow them to do this to you document everything, gather like minded troops to your side, when enough of us put our foots down this will stop.

TO the OP, mind your tongue, you don’t have the full facts yet, you want to punish someone for crimes, they reside at 1600 Pennsylvania ave, as well as in the Congress, go get them.

Glenn Greenwald wrote an article about this incident. It shows how respected news providers like CNN and the NYT have once again regurgitated government propaganda and failed to inform the public. The article also gives a timeline and presents some of the lies told by ISAF and NATO officials.
www.salon.com...

Yeah, right, and then they ate the flesh of unborn babies to cover that up.
Come on guys, can't you see the Afghans are playing with your will to keep fighting in the Stan ?
If I see one picture of a bullet-riddled pregnant woman body, I'll buy the story. Meanwhile, I'll just say yellow journalism has still a long prosperous life ahead.

makes me sick!

just heard it on democracy now...

Originally posted by slank

This just enrages me.

WTF is wrong with you America?
End these monsters in your very midsts who instead of being honored should be tried & executed.

Enraged enough to strap on a vest of Centex?

Propaganda is a powerful tool in the hands of those who wield it as a weapon. If the story has any merit to it then all involved should be charged and convicted as criminals, just as those (non-Americans) the other day went into a village and tortured 25 people to death in rather hideous ways. Or those involved in the large increase of suicide bombings directed at the Iraq elections.

It is painfully obvious that destabilization is the goal of those who are against the US efforts, and a country like Iran would love to see the US depart a destabilized Iraq. With about 60% of Iraq’s population religiously aligned with Iran it would be a great victory for them to be able to absorb that group along with the rich oil fields in the north without having to take it with open conflict.

An interesting personal observation of mine from a trip to Dubai a few days ago is that the two countries that most see as causing all the middle east troubles are actually Iran and Russia as the string pullers….I found this very interesting and see a lot of validity in it as they have the most to gain.

reply to post by MattMulder
Thanks for bringing sanity to this thread.

I had to be reminded that U.S. Troops are there in Afghanistan to spread candy and fluffy marshmallows alongside the chocolate tiled highway system they are laying down over there.

I forgot that the Special Forces are the elite forces whose "specialty" is artfully applying colorful sprinkles on the gum drops left by the Air Force.

And for a minute there, I almost bought that New York Times story that the Special Forces are over there to spread death and destruction and cover their asses in the event they kill civilians.

Originally posted by MattMulder
Yeah, right, and then they ate the flesh of unborn babies to cover that up.
Come on guys, can't you see the Afghans are playing with your will to keep fighting in the Stan ?
If I see one picture of a bullet-riddled pregnant woman body, I'll buy the story. Meanwhile, I'll just say yellow journalism has still a long prosperous life ahead.

And what is the next stage after denial?

Self edit to include the first person account of the cover-up process:
www.niemanwatchdog.org...

[edit on 5-4-2010 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by harrytuttle

 

Thanks for bringing sanity to this thread.

I had to be reminded that U.S. Troops are there in Afghanistan to spread candy and fluffy marshmallows alongside the chocolate tiled highway system they are laying down over there.

I forgot that the Special Forces are the elite forces whose "specialty" is artfully applying colorful sprinkles on the gum drops left by the Air Force.

And for a minute there, I almost bought that New York Times story that the Special Forces are over there to spread death and destruction and cover their asses in the event they kill civilians.

The main question is IF (big if) this is all true is whether it is the personal act of individuals, or sanction acts of established official doctrine. I have just came back from four months embedded with the marines/other groups flying UAVs in support, and I saw or heard nothing that even suggested anything along these lines as happening much less official doctrine. I can also tell you that the rules of engagement (established by the Afghan government) are rather strict to say the least, and I have 100s of personal observations to how restrictive they our for our troops even under direct fire.

So you have two sides in conflict. The US side has been undeniably involved in horrendous acts of individual that just on the sheer size of the numbers of troops you will see a very small number of these cases, but then on the other side it is an openly official practice and policy that is routinely accomplished to meet their objectives.

Though it is your right to hate America’s issues in these areas I would expect the same attitude for the other side too while understanding that you are basically categorizing the acts of both sides as the same.


[edit on 5-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

Originally posted by Xtrozero
The main question is IF (big if) this is all true is whether it is the personal act of individuals, or sanction acts of established official doctrine.

Well, that's an easy one to answer for you.

The answer is official doctrine. It's called Operation Enduring Freedom, and Bush was allowed to launch the war because in September 2001, Congress granted him Authorization to Use Military Force.

Bush started this war, Obama is continuing it. The U.S. Government doesn't get to act like an irresponsible child who gets to pick and choose which killings they'll accept responsibility for and which they'll blame on "bad apples".

This war is the bad apple. It's war, and that's why there are so many people against war, because women and children get killed. You can't stop that. It happens. And when these horrible acts occur, then everyone argues whether to blame the bad apples or the country that started it. Argue, debate, blah blah blah.

Meanwhile, women and children are dying.

So you ask who is to blame, the soldiers (because they disobeyed "orders"), or their Commanders (because they authorized those soldiers to kill those people)?

The answer is crystal clear: Soldiers can NEVER be wrong in this "War on Terror" because the U.S. Government has told them that the enemy can be anyone.

They say Terrorists can be ANYBODY at ANYTIME. The ENEMY doesn't wear a uniform. The ENEMY can be a woman with a bomb in her bra.

Basically, the U.S. Government tells their soldiers and citizens and law enforcement that TERRORISTS could be anyone.

So when the U.S. Government sends troops into that kind of insane scenario, insane things are going to happen.

And that, by definition, means it is official doctrine.

[edit on 5-4-2010 by harrytuttle]

A American NATO spokesman has already admitted that he covered up this incident with a lie. So yes this event is a fact and has happened.

The story told by the American spokesman is that the civilians were already tied up and dead when the special forces showed up. The spokes man admits that this story is a lie to cover up the actual event.

reply to post by harrytuttle


Nevermind the fact that woman and children are used in wars because of that type of thinking. In Vietnam children would give soldiers bottles of coke acola w/glass ground up in it. A very painful death with the glass fragments ripping up internal organs! I'm not saying that innocent people don't die in wars but that sometimes things are not what you are told they are.

How many ppl posting on this thread actually know ANYTHING about Special Forces ? I mean actually know their mission ,and their main objective ,how they work ,how they train ?
Anyone here know anything more than what you find on the Internet ,or a friend of a friend says ?

Let me first address that this story is propaganda at its best ,and the main stream Press is eating it up .
2nd I am sick of the MSM calling every unit under the sun SF @@ There are only a hand full of ppl that are actually TABBED SF Men ,and SOF . BIG FREAKING DIFFERENCE .Most ppl just can't seem to get that threw there skull .

No SF group would EVER behave in this manner ,believe it or not they help ppl a heck of a lot more than harm .

I feel sorry for anyone who believes that this happen in the way its being reported .

Originally posted by harrytuttle
Well, that's an easy one to answer for you.

Bush started this war, Obama is continuing it. The U.S. Government doesn't get to act like an irresponsible child who gets to pick and choose which killings they'll accept responsibility for and which they'll blame on "bad apples".

Well I guess if you want to suggest the total event is a war crime it is your prerogative. We can also include the vast majority of humanity in some form or another too. I'm not going to argue whether the war was right or wrong, for I don't think it was worth it even as Iraq is finally developing after eight years of miss steps. I'm sure to groups like the Kurds it was worth it as they would most surely be extinct by now if we left Saddam and his sons alone.

Afghanistan on the other hand is a different picture in the Taliban want to enslave the culture towards their extremism. A big part of that extreme culture is to basically give women a status about equal to goats while eliminating any and all who just might happen to disagree.

On this once again I do not see it as worth it, and that country is so primitive that I suggest we leave and come back in a few hundred years.

Meanwhile, women and children are dying.

Yep, you are right...all over the world, but on what scale and whether it is doctrine or not kind of makes a huge difference. I’m sure if you get this upset with the US you must be hysterical over many over groups. You haven’t ever posted against those other groups? Well that is strange…..

So you ask who is to blame, the soldiers (because they disobeyed "orders"), or their Commanders (because they authorized those soldiers to kill those people)?

Hmm, how about blaming the soldiers who actually do these deeds since their acts are personal and are totally outside any US doctrine. These are not cases of following orders; these are cases of war crimes, as few as they are, that greatly hamper the US efforts in their overall objectives. With that said, innocent people do die even when great effort is put forth to prevent it. Bullets and bombs are dangerous no matter what.

You my friend use a rather big brush with broad strokes in painting the reality you believe.

The answer is crystal clear: Soldiers can NEVER be wrong in this "War on Terror" because the U.S. Government has told them that the enemy can be anyone.


They say Terrorists can be ANYBODY at ANYTIME. The ENEMY doesn't wear a uniform. The ENEMY can be a woman with a bomb in her bra.

Basically, the U.S. Government tells their soldiers and citizens and law enforcement that TERRORISTS could be anyone.

So when the U.S. Government sends troops into that kind of insane scenario, insane things are going to happen.

And that, by definition, means it is official doctrine.

Lol what? ok...

Where are the millions of Afghanis dead by your definition? Where are the villages burned to the ground? Where are the massive concentration camps? By a factor of 10s more Iraqis kill Iraqis than American military did and the same goes for Afghanistan. As I have stated I’m just coming back from four months over there and what you think is right is nowhere near what is truly the case.



[edit on 5-4-2010 by Xtrozero]

For those, calling this story propaganda at its best. Perhaps you should have visited the ISAF website and read how this incident developed in their press releases. First ISAF tried to sell the three dead women the following way:

Joint Force Operating in Gardez Makes Gruesome Discovery KABUL, Afghanistan (Feb. 12) - An Afghan-international security force found the bound and gagged bodies of three women during an operation in the Gardez district, Paktiya Province last night.

The joint force went to a compound near the village of Khatabeh, after intelligence confirmed militant activity. Several insurgents engaged the joint force in a fire fight and were killed.Subsequently, a large number of men, women, and children exited the compound, and were detained by the joint force. When the joint force entered the compound they conducted a thorough search of the area, and found the bodies of three women who had been tied up, gagged and killed. The bodies had been hidden in an adjacent room.

www.isaf.nato.int...

Then the journalist Starkey investigated the story and interviewed witnesses and published an article in the timesonline, this press statement followed by ISAF:

ISAF Rejects Cover Up Allegation KABUL, Afghanistan (March 13) - The allegation made by Times UK reporter Jerome Starkey that NATO "covered up" an incident that was conducted outside Gardez in Paktia province is categorically false...

...The statement in the initial press release that the women had been "tied up, gagged and killed" came from initial operational reports. Based on subsequent reviews, those reports were based on a lack of understanding of local burial practices. The women's feet had been tied, and they had cloth straps that immobilized their jaws, evidently in preparation for burial.

www.isaf.nato.int...

And here ISAF finally admits a cover-up:

Gardez Investigation Concludes KABUL, Afghanistan (Apr. 4) - A thorough joint investigation into the events that occurred in the Gardez district of Paktiya Province Feb. 12, has determined that international forces were responsible for the deaths of three women who were in the same compound where two men were killed by the joint Afghan-international patrol searching for a Taliban insurgent.

The two men, who were later determined not to be insurgents, were shot and killed by the joint patrol after they showed what appeared to be hostile intent by being armed. While investigators could not conclusively determine how or when the women died, due to lack of forensic evidence, they concluded that the women were accidentally killed as a result of the joint force firing at the men.

www.isaf.nato.int...

The part of the story, where the woman and man died, while the murderers were covering up their errors is not yet confirmed. But the rest is bad enough. Killing pregnant women and a teenage girl at a family celebration and then trying to sell it as honour killing or strange burial custom is disgusting.

I'm sure this stuff is not so prevalent in the majority of the ranks. This is terrible if true, especially with the wikileaks vid. Seems the media is going anti-american-military. maybe the guy that predicted the train bombings in russia can help in seeing where the media is going with these releases.

Originally posted by Drunkenshrew
The part of the story, where the woman and man died, while the murderers were covering up their errors is not yet confirmed. But the rest is bad enough. Killing pregnant women and a teenage girl at a family celebration and then trying to sell it as honour killing or strange burial custom is disgusting.

Yep, I think we can all agree that if there was a cover-up and American troops did it then those people involved should be punished.


Let’s though look at the makeup of troops over there. There is like ten plus countries as a part of the ISAF with a huge addition of the Afghan National Army (ANA) that grows weekly. Not all international forces are equal in training and professionalism and the ANA are the local populace i.e. primitive. The goal is to train ANA to slowly take over the roles of the ISAF, and when you read “joint” it is teams of these with the ISAF. US troops have taken a back seat in most operations while only monitoring the ANA unless directly engaged. Now I have stated that Afghanistan is very primitive and to give you an idea compared to 3rd world countries Afghanistan is about 5th world…it is that bad, ignorant, backward…etc and more. Much of this was caused by the years under the Taliban. So with that said, think of what ANA troops are like, with us there or not it is a mess….

Originally posted by Xtrozero
US troops have taken a back seat in most operations while only monitoring the ANA unless directly engaged.

Yes, that would account for the 'surge'. Compare the number of recent US casualties vs Canadian. My contacts tell me that the US has taken on the heavy lifting, and that's not done by coaching Afghanis.

What I don't comprehend is why people think that civilians don't or shouldn't get killed in war. In every war in history, civilians have been deliberately targeted to break the will of the army to fight.

The Romans were particularly ruthless and brutal, that was the key to their success, losing to them meant gangrape of your women and children, torture, enslavement, and death, if you were lucky. Everyone in Europe admired them and therefore followed their example and tactics; European wars are replete with civilian horrors in wars. The Indian Wars in the US were case studies in using terror against civilians: most army attacks were made against unarmed civilians, not warriors. WW1 and WW2 both had huge civilian casualty tolls. Likewise Korea, Vietnam, and every other war in history.

War isn't play, and killing the enemy is what it is about. The "enemy" includes all who support and make fighting possible, be they male, female or whatever age. It is not moral, nor is it "right". The way to win a war with the fewest casualties overall is to utterly overwhelm the enemy, giving him no chance whatsoever: any general who offers or relishes a "fair" fight to the enemy is incompetent and far too romantic for the position.

It is a terrible, unchangeable truth. If you don't like it, don't fight. But if you don't fight, then be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Me, I prefer to talk things out. But I've been to war and know its terrible truths: no matter how hard you try, civilians will die, sometimes horribly. No war will ever be free of it. The best you can do is to try to minimize it. But you must accept that if you minimize civilian casualties, you remove an incentive for the other side to lay down their arms, so you prolong the conflict and the casualties. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

It's horrible, but it's also true that if you want a short war, you must kill a lot of people, especially civilians.

Sorry 'bout that, but there it is.