Who founded Wicca, and was it planted by the NWO?

reply to post by halfoldman


We should remeber that with the rise of literacy in the 1800s many witches in fact were using goetic type grimmoires. like the heptameron and black pullet.

Wow, so many things at one time....in answer to the OP, nope. But please recognize the labels being used here are being used in a rather broad manner. Seems some have done some reading, googling, and wikiing. Nothing is all encompassed when it comes to a path in life and this type of generalization just doesn't fit.

reply to post by halfoldman


Yes but the modern coverns are so very individualistic in practice that the tenets are now very variable. Xtians have a Bible we have BoS and the ones that I have seen are varisable in quality and theology.

reply to post by Tiger5

How long has Gardner's Wicca been around for? Say 1950, so that makes it roughly 60 years. The first books of the New Testament only appeared 70 years after Christ's ascending to heaven on a cloud. Only in AD 382 were they organized into the Testaments we have today under Pope Damascus and his scribe, St Jerome.
So by that pretext Wicca could be really canonized in another 300 years!
I've gone through various books on Wicca and the charge and other rituals are already pretty standardized.

'Modern' wicca ~ neo-pagan... i nothing new, its just repackaged for the times:

see this link/snip

www.answers.com...

Britannica Concise Encyclopedia: Wicca


Wicca

Modern Western witchcraft movement. Some practitioners consider Wicca the religion of pre-Christian Europe, forced underground by the Christian church.
That thesis is not accepted by historians, and modern Wicca is usually dated to the work of Gerald B. Gardner (1884 – 1964) and Doreen Valiente (1922 – 1999), who, after the repeal of the last Witchcraft Act in England (1951), went public with their cult of witchcraft,
which centered on a horned god of fertility and a great earth goddess.

Gardner is credited with introducing the term Wicca. So-called "Dianic" Wicca focuses on the Goddess as the supreme being and usually excludes men.
Wiccans share a belief in the importance of the feminine principle, a deep respect for nature, and a pantheistic and polytheistic worldview.

They practice some form of ritual magic, almost always considered good or constructive.
Some are solitary practitioners; others belong to covens.
For more information on Wicca, visit Britannica.com

a former girl friend B Gardiner AKA RED FEATHER , was also a priestess, but not in wicca, but rather in the church of Tsadi out in Phoenix AZ..
wicca is all encompassing--but is a polar opposite of the western organized faiths that are Jesus-Christ centered


thanks...

reply to post by St Udio

Thank you - valuable research!
Personally I would dispute that it is directly opposed to Christianity. Previous posts have already pointed out similarities (see myself and the Walking Fox). Anton LaVey classed it with Christianity's self-deluded right-hand path in "The Satanic Bible".
It is massive competition for Christians, and sells as many products and books to the same potential market. It also informs people on pagan influences within Christianity and its scandalous history (old hat), otherwise it is really as threatening as yoga or Zen. What really shocks Christians is that some Wiccans claim to be both Christian and Wiccans - this means disorder and contamination for their system.



[edit on 3-4-2010 by halfoldman]

reply to post by halfoldman




Yes, indeed...Christianity getting 'contaminated'.

my comment that Wiccan paganism is opposed to
western christian faiths is that the (wiccan)-Goddess is the life bringer/giver....
Whereas, the Christ is male, and is a 'redeemer', and requires ritualistic
mantras and total submission to him (baptisms/being born again)
or else you are outside his 'kingdom'


sure there are many similarities with the Savior religion & the Paganism of the last ~10,000 years?
the similarities revolve around the simple idea that humanity is anthropomorphic

reply to post by St Udio

Well, in the root Christianity that Luther unwittingly split from, or Catholicism, the goddess symbolism via Mother Mary remains almost on equal de facto footing as her son.

Originally posted by St Udio

as to the rise in Wicca being a plan by the NWO:

Some practitioners consider Wicca the religion of pre-Christian Europe, forced underground by the Christian church.

That thesis is not accepted by historians, and modern Wicca is usually dated to the work of Gerald B. Gardner (1884 – 1964) and Doreen Valiente (1922 – 1999),
who, after the repeal of the last Witchcraft Act in England (1951), went public with their cult of witchcraft, [...]

i would propose that the generation of radicals, intellectuals, writers, Etc.
which then spawned the 'Beat Generation' beatnicks, which eventually led to the 'counter-culture' of the 1960's..
was the driving force for the repackaging of ancient paganism,
bundled with Goddess' (as an antithesis to Christ).. so modern Wiccan
is a deliberate slap-in-the-face to WASP America & the World in general.

Wicca, then was not hatched as a sublime indoctrination by the NWO,
Wicca was set up as an Alternative to the prevasive Christ faith, strangling this Homeland


from small beginnings a journey is undertaken



[edit on 3-4-2010 by St Udio]

reply to post by halfoldman


Being a Wiccan myself, I think Wicca as we know it today, is a continuation of ancient Pagan practices, rituals, and beliefs. The original meaning of the word meant "one who is wise," so it is clear that just everyone cannot be a Wiccan, it takes intelligence and curiously to be able to study and absorb all of the material, and remember everything one needs to know, to practice, to operate. I know a few Wiccans, and believe me, I am so anti NWO it drips off me as I walk around. I would say also that it is the Christians/Muslims are wholly controlled by the NWO and all that is associated with that world domination group.

Originally posted by halfoldman
[...] the goddess symbolism via Mother Mary remains almost on equal de facto footing as her son.

yes, but predominately in the central & south American nations,

and in the latino communities in the USA, where 'shrines' are a given
you will note that the Pope once denigrated the elevation of 'VirginMary' homage, to a state of near worship. but relented to keep the church universal (Catholic) stable and inclusive.

Christianity/Jesus as Savior belief, even tolerates traces of superstition & voo-doo...as long as they profess a belief in the Redeemer-Savior, Jesus

reply to post by halfoldman


What is interesting is that the wiccan rituals were had some standardisation due to the lineages which predominantly came form gardiner. the biggest lineage is Gardenerian as even the Alexandrians came out of them.. I hold a 3rd degree in Gardenerian craft and will say that the BoSs do vary . Also some of the elemental names come from Levi. Occultists as a whole are notorious plagiarists.

The only thing that I can connect the NWO was the Amazing fact that I was (as a child) blown away by the 4 page spread that the daily mail or express did on Gardiner in the late 60s. Which ever paper it was was never progressive and the article was quite sympathetic. How did it get past th editorial policy??



[edit on 3-4-2010 by Tiger5]

reply to post by St Udio


Yes but the UK also has a tradition of holy wells and attendant sightings of various women in white. I have seen numerous dressed wells in Derbyshire.

I would also agree that Virgin Mary veneration is a Catholic style and is seen in many catholic homes in the UK.

There is high catholicism as well as folk catholicism Which did influence the african synergistic religion.

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by St Udio

 

Yes but the UK also has a tradition of holy wells and attendant sightings of various women in white. I have seen numerous dressed wells in Derbyshire.

excellent update, seeing as i am only relating what i know or have seen personally... i had no idea of these 'wells'...thanks for posting

but yes, there are many apparitions of 'Mary' all over the world, but the Latin culture generally is more attuned to 'Mary' visions than most other ethnicities/groups/ communities...
and 'Mary' is not a Goddess ! and cannot be substituted for the Pagan or Gnostic Feminine...

Christiandoms 'Mary' is only a subordinate to the manGod, much like the Angels are

This here previous is a little like looking at the top of the iceberg and saying wow thats a large iceberg, then heading strait off for lunch without sticking your head under the water to see what else is there!

Lets keep this brief as it is a very involved.

The Modern form of Wicca, was officially coined in the 1950's after the repeal of the Witchcraft and Sorcery Act in the UK. At this time it became possible for Gardener and some of his contemporaries, some later, Alex and Marie Sanders, Doreen Valiente, And later Vivianne Crowley (NO RELATION) to publish books and articles on the subject of pagan practice belief. that is when it OFFICIALLY started.

Wicca in itself comes under the umbrella term of paganism, it name deriving from the old Aenglisch word for the wise. however the Gardnarian form of Wicca contains elements from Egyptian, Hindu, Eastern mysteries as will as symbolism and practice from the kabbalistic, Goetic and High Magick rituals, with a sprinkle of herbology, and headology mixed in for good use. This is why a lot of "wiccans" prefer the word eclectic wiccan. as there is the tendancy to shun dogmatic texts, Bible, Torah, Koran, etc. so the Book of Shadows!!! as it is called, becomes nothing more than a reference text.

The Book of shadows itself it personal to every practitioner, and every one is different.

There is only one law, An it harm none, do as you will. this is NOT to be confused with Crowley's law, Do as thou wilt, shall be the whole of the law.

Whilst on the subject of Crowley, he moved in very different circles to Gardener, More in the circle of G. fraser and the Golden Dawn type. which eventually turned into the Ordo Templis Orientis. and Thelema. These in themselves have more heritage to Free masonry then Wicca does.

Although Wicca and its people so state that their religion is the oldest and has been around for millenia, this is true to a degree. the Modern Version of Wicca as practiced in the High Magick ritual form has, and has it's roots in the Temple of Soloman, the craft of the wise aspect also does, and has it's roots in the Shamen, Witch Doctors, and Wise wo/men of the western mystical traditions. HOWEVER all mixed together, only been so for maybe the last 100 years, and only public for the last 60 or so. Is this a bad things which makes it invalid. in my opinion, No. Both aspects work and work well.

OK Liets look at witchcraft in general, The is the Hermitic tradition, the Dianic tradition, Stregherian, Alexandrian, and Solitaries, amongst others. Can this be nailed down to a singular dogmatic form, NO becuase Witchcraft, Wicca, and paganism is a pragmatic religion, that is constantly evolving and IS NOT PINNED on one text, NOR has ANY leaders, Anyone who claims to be king of Queen of Witches is a damn egomaniac, there are and have been a few, but we laugh at them. there are those who are happen to be in the lime light, that's fine, if thats what makes them happy.

Finally on the secrecy aspect. If you ask a Wiccan about it they will talk to you. if you ask them about their personal working they won't. That is just down to a belief that exposure of the intent of any magickal working renders it null and void!, but if you ask them for a spell or practice, 9 time out of 10 you'll get a good reply.

Evidence cited for my claims. Backed up by 20 years experiece of Being a Pagan / Wiccan.

Cheers

Jakius

Originally posted by halfoldman
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I would say that this knowledge was specific to witches at that time. Witches knew of the only remedies and poisons that actually worked at the time. Otherwise the Latin term "Venifica" would not indicate poisoner or witch in most Romance languages. They also knew that some doses of plants could cure and other doses could have opposite effects. This was the power that male "doctors" wanted from them. I could also say "establishment doctors", since some "witches" were doubtlessly male (as in many cultures, possibly "gay" men).

One of the major problems I have with your use of the word 'venifica' is of its historical usage and currency, particularly pre-16th C. Also, the idea that this hinges on Romance languages is particularly problematic as how does that fit in with what's happened within the British Isles? How does that fit in with, say, what's known about Anglo-Saxon practices and terminology - both pre and post Conversion?

reply to post by Merriman Weir


Merriman, I just want to be clear on this. Did you just question how Romans fitted in with the History of the British Isles??? it sounded like you did!

if that is true, and without sarcasm, please Google Harians wall. Dewa, The Fosse Way, and Londinium.

I am sure this is just my eyes being strange though

reply to post by JakiusFogg


Yes but the early pages of most BoSs have the major group rituals and it is to those that I am referring. And yes I had to transcribe mine by hand. and had to get the group rituals down and the various mystery lectures. These formed the first parts of My BoS when other initiates met across coven divides I was able to examine their BoS and mine.

That was the basis of my previous comments. The Prior to Gardiner there were "Cunning" men and women of which old George Pickingsgill was propbably the last documented.

THe other matter that I wanted to clear up was A conversation that I had with Cecil Williamson that indicated that exotic religions in the Uk had a tradition of being (ahem) sexually adventurous and some were even a basis for probable prostitution. It was just not only witchcraft. We brits were a straighlaced bunch in those days.

Hi all.

I have been a Wiccan for over ten years and would like to add my 2 cents.

Firstly, Wicca and Witchcraft are being used interchangerbly in this thread buy some people. They are not the same thing. Wicca is a branch of witchcraft.


Someone said at Wiccas highest levels, things such as demons and Satanism is being explored.

Witches and Wiccans DO NOT believe in Satan. There is no such thing as Satan to us.

Saying Wiccans practise Satanist rituals would be like saying Christians practise Hindu rituals.



"Yes, both wica and masonry are about isolating people from happy inter gender relationships.
It is about undermining family values, community values, undermining state and church.
It is about self empowerment by means of occult practices and using the secret system."


I am not sure about Masonry but Wicca is very much about respecting your family and friends, loving unconditionally, and respecting all other faiths.

The self empowerment we get is not about any secrets, its about learning to love yourself for who you are and celebrate the fact we are all different yet beautiful.

As for community values, I know many Wiccan groups who give to charities, do volunteer work, plant community gardens etc

I fail to see how this undermines anything ?

There are always going to be idiots out there abusing whatever religion to make money. Just because you have skimmed the back of one Wicca book and saw a "cursing spell" advertised or some rubbish like that, does not mean it is indicative to all Wicca.