Wi-Fi anxiety: Man sues neighbor to shut off electronics

Wi-Fi anxiety: Man sues neighbor to shut off electronics

www.latimes.com

So in September 2008, he bought the home on Barela Street, a few blocks from the newly redeveloped downtown rail yard here.

But last October, when a friend of his rented a house on the next block that backed up to Firstenberg's property, the familiar waves of nausea, vertigo, body aches, dizziness, heart arrhythmia and insomnia returned -- all, he says, because she was using an iPhone, a laptop computer, a wireless router and dimmer switches.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I came across this article, and thought it might be a good point of discussion here. The article seems to brush off the idea that there might be some real sickness, for the most part, but I would have to disagree.

I am...very fond of my electronic gadgets and computer and all that, to say the least. But even so, I have had some personal experiences with sensitivity issues to electronic devices. Not wi-fi so much, though it can be an issue if Im right on top of the router, but bluetooth in particular. My phone has bluetooth, and so does my computer, and how I would love to sync via bluetooth...but if I have it turned on, I get immediate headaches, and if I leave it on, it will continue on into nausea, dizziness, etc. This effect fades outside of 20-30 feet, and is tolerable at over ten feet, but if Im holding my phone and turn on bluetooth, I'll be near to vomiting inside of ten minutes, and will experience a headache immediately.

That being said, I would have to think that I am far from the only person to experience such effects, and, were someone more sensitive to them than I, I could see this man's complaint being quite valid. The question is, what's the solution? Most neighborhoods are flooded with wi-fi signals. A lot of public places with crowds quickly have a strong cluster of bluetooth going on, as well. Do we look to change the technology? Do we treat it like an allergy? Do we just ignore it and leave those who are sensitive to find their own quiet space?

From a conspiracy angle, I would have to think that the manufacturers would have to have some idea that this sort of thing can happen in some cases, from their own testing. Gives a whole new use to tin-foil hats!


www.latimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I think sensitivity to RF is underplayed by big business and other parties with an interest in it not existing.

Too many people complain about it being a problem when there isn't an apparent reason for them to do so.

It is widely known, yet covered up, that living next to high voltage powerlines can have the same effects described by those who say they are sensitive to RF, and there are cancer clusters in these areas, too.

The body and brain relies on electrical impulses. The brain particularly has a very complex electrical make-up, and it would be wholly rediculous to suggest that external RF sources couldn't interfere with it.

Why some people are apparently more sensitive than others is an interesting topic. There is conflicting research for the effects of RF, but a few too many independent reports into symptoms caused as a result of exposure to RF to ignore.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by mirageofdeceit]

If this guy is so easily effected by electromagnetic radiation, then how the heck does he go outside in the daytime? The light from the Sun must melt him like a vampire.

A bit contradictory I feel.

WiFi and Bluetooth operate on the same frequency. Almost do exactly the same thing. If one affects you, so should the other.

I have seen these sort of reports before, in Newspapers and on TV and it astounds me that people are complaining about Phone Towers and RF Emitting devices and yet, they all have Microwave ovens in their homes and other Electronic items that Emit RF.

A Flourescent light emits RF as well as a CF (Compact Flouro) lamp.

So, in my opinion, I feel that most of these people, not all, are seeking attention or been given the wrong information either by their Doctors or by someone else or maybe even imagining it.. Who Knows.

Maybe they read on the internet stories like this one that the OP has started and blame the same things for their own Health Problems.

Let's face it. Wifi Signals and Bluetooth Signals emit such low power RF (Radio Frequency) that it would be hard for it to cause any effects to someones Health. If you were to sit in your house, with nothing switched on, you would be getting More RF through your body from things like TV, Radio and Mobile Phone than Bluetooth or WiFi could ever do. Bluetooth operates around 1 milliwatt, Mobile Phones operate up to 5 watts.

Without any RF Emitting devices on the Planet, we would still be Bombarded by RF from Outer Space.

Just My 2 Cents.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Damian-007]

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Damian-007]

reply to post by mirageofdeceit


You say "It is widely known, yet covered up, that living next to high voltage powerlines can have the same effects described by those who say they are sensitive to RF, and there are cancer clusters in these areas, too."

I beg to differ. There have been numerous studies undertaken and made Absolutely Public about People who are living next to or under Power Lines and the Effects it has on their Health.

They have found No Definative Evidence that living near these places causes and ill effect to Health. I agree on the premise that Cancer Clusters do occur around these particular areas but it has never been established that the Electricity lines are to blame.

Just as Mobile Phones cause Brain Tumours. Again, No Evidence to Suggest that Mobile Phones are to Blame.
They have even performed MRI Tests, Live with a Phone held next to the Skull and found little if no serious Side Effects.

I have been working in the RF Field all my life and the most damage that happened to me was an RF Burn on my Finger. This happened from a UHF Transmitter operating at 100 watts.

But, There are Devices that use RF for healing purposes. One American Man was able to use UHF Frequency, At High Power, to cure his Cancer and this experiment was well Documented and Looked at by Doctors. But we're talking very high Power. I'll see if I can find a link to that story.

So, It may be that living next to power lines is bad for your health or using a mobile phone causes tumours but, at the moment there is no Actual Proof to back it up..

When I volunteered at the the hospital here for university this was pretty common among people suffering from OCD and various delusion disorders. Pretty much in all cases, if you just convinced them there was no RF in that part of the hospital, it went away. You just explain that it's an RF free zone for people like them and suddenly no more complaints. The mind can do funny things.

reply to post by Damian-007


Ah, the good old, "it doesn't happen to me, its not real" argument. Firstly, I did say that Wi-fi effects me, but only if Im right on top of the source. Secondly, did you stop to think that it might just be specific frequencies? perhaps even different frequencies for different people? For instance, whatever the specifics are for bluetooth, I would say that five bluetooth phones strapped to my body would be more torture than most anything else you could devise. I dont WANT it to be. I want to have me a bluetooth headset, it would be pretty flipping convenient. So would bluetooth syncing. But the fact remains, it has a direct and powerful physical effect. Saying you don't believe it because it doesn't happen to you means nothing.

Other devices DO bother me, sometimes, but not usually enough to matter. Older CRT monitors sometimes emit an audible sound that can give me headaches. (For that matter, I wouldnt exactly call bluetooth audible, but effects aside, I can literally feel it...but Im not exactly sure how to describe the sensation.)

You're right, fluorescent lighting is absolute hell. Headaches, eyes burn, etc, and always have. Though I never thought to connect it to waves emitted; I always assumed it was connected to the poor quality of light.

I don't know of any direct effects of cell towers, but, living a few hundred feet from one right now, I have severe insomnia, which I have not ever experienced elsewhere, nor do I suffer from when I visit elsewhere, so...who knows.

A cell phone itself has little effect; any seeming side effects take a prolonged period of use, to the point that they could be comfort related issues.


For the person with the smart remark about going outside, we spend our formative years acclimating to the sun. The fact that I grew up far out of town with little technology may in fact have something to do with my sensitivity, come to think of it. Of course, then that would suggest that prolonged exposure to these varying frequencies during formative years may in fact have a direct biological effect.

All in all, I find it an interesting subject, both because of my personal experience, and because it is interesting how even on a website that is full of very hard to believe theories, things that I can definitively know are true and which should be rather easy to replicate scientifically, are dismissed out of hand as quackery.

Reminds me of the posts that I see on here every six months or so, where someone posts about extremely high pitched sounds from electronics, and are booed off the board or told that it is tinnitus...when only a slight moment of research will show you that all electronic devices emit high frequency sounds, and so its not that big of a deal that some people can hear them....lol

Personally I think he has a justified reason. The reason I agree is because if these transmissions are screwing with human health.Cases like this need to be used to highlight there is a serious problem in humans. And if they are doing this to us, what are they doing to other animals? The bee immediately springs to mind.

We need to go back to the drawing board and redesign technology to not affect nature. We are still a child race, we dont fully understand what we are playing with, and we are finding out we are doing it wrong the hard way.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet


You Said You're WiFi doesn't affect you as bad as Blutooth does. Am I correct?

WiFi and Blutooth operate on the same FREQUENCY. Get it?

If you are using your Computer and using WiFi it should, in reality affect you the same. Yet you say it doesn't. you say you have to be right on top of your Router.

I was pointing out the obvious. You want to accuse me of "If It Doesn't Happen to me it's not real argument" go ahead.

It's like I said. A bit contradictory I feel.

The whole World is covered in RF. Stronger than Bluetooth or WiFi could ever be. And a lot of it comes from, you know where?

reply to post by Firefly_


Well, I wouldn't be so extreme as that. As with any technology, potential issues that arise need to be understood and fixed. Along the lines of switching from leaded to unleaded gasoline, and developing advanced exhaust systems to remove the pollutants from engine exhaust.

With wireless technology in particular, it has expanded to such a great extent in the last decade that no prior testing could ever sufficiently simulate the RF environment that we experience today. Meaning that there is really no good data about what effects this expansion could be having. For all I know, it may be that symptoms such as mine are only present in a small percentage of people who grew to adulthood in an environment that in which such massive RF use was absent, meaning that future generations will be highly unlikely to suffer any side effects.

I guess my point was to show how many people can think wayyyy outside of the box, when it is just speculation, but if it comes to something in their everyday lives, most people are far less open to challenging ideas.

reply to post by saturnine_sweet


G'day

I don't believe there is any such condition as electrosensitivity.

There is no peer reviewed medical literature to validate such a condition.

The Wiki page sums things up quite well:

Electromagnetic hypersensitivity (EHS), also electrohypersensitivity or electrical sensitivity (ES) refers to claims of adverse medical symptoms purportedly caused by exposure to electromagnetic fields.[1] Although effects of electromagnetic fields on the body are established, self-described sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity report responding to non-ionizing electromagnetic fields (or electromagnetic radiation) at intensities well below the limits permitted by international radiation safety standards. The majority of provocation trials to date have found that self-described sufferers of electromagnetic hypersensitivity are unable to distinguish between exposure to real and sham electromagnetic fields,[2][3] and it is not recognized as a medical condition by the medical or scientific communities.

en.wikipedia.org...

The WHO & other organisations have determined there is no evidence for such a condition:

The WHO and a number of other public health organizations have concluded that there is no significant evidence that exposure to EMF causes any of the symptoms associated with EHS. The following is a list of additional articles, web sites, and blogs which deal with the issue of electrohypersensitivity or EHS. The list includes a brief description of the materials that are referenced. All of these materials arrive at the same conclusion.

www.emfandhealth.com...

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

reply to post by Damian-007


I think you are still generalizing WAYYYY too much. Here is a primer on Bluetooth; it is NOT identical to Wi-fi.

I did not claim to know exactly why it effects me. I only pointed out that it does. Your disbelief does not make it stop happening. Why are you so intent to disbelieve? I mean, seriously? Wouldn't it make more sense to examine the differences in the two technologies and see if perhaps there is something that you could pin down as a cause? Maybe with bluetooth the effect is difference because of how it rapidly changes to slightly different frequencies? Or maybe Wi-fi effects are just easier to tune out because the frequencies are more stable? I did not claim to know how it all works, just that it happens, as I said.

reply to post by Firefly_


Not to be rude here, but it's comments like this that bother me a little.

I could say something like then be the pioneer, but again, to say that so bluntly is rude and inconsiderate, to some people.

We may be young on the cosmic scale but we aren't able to turn back and recreate everything we've made because a handful of people may be affected. Yes, it can be possible some RF frequencies mess with people, and animals who hear the higher frequency noise may be bothered, but there's too much advancement to simply turn the clock back and redo it all.

Edit: Maybe...maybe not. puts out a good point. No peer reviewed, observable effects can be accounted for, so there aren't many other things it can be.

In any case, I don't think many people can name technology that doesn't run on the EM spectrum. To find something new, people just have to put up with it as best they can until it can be rectified.

In the mean time, I think the best measure one can do now, and I am giving someone the idea to do this, is to make a personal RF jammer for people to use. Affecting an area confined to their person as to not affect anyone else. With the culprit frequencies jammed, they shouldn't have discomfort so long as that solution doesn't bring a new host of problems.

Which it likely would because many jammers run on that same EM Spectrum.. Thus the dilemma in our technology today.

Edit 2: ZombieOctopus probably said the most plausible reason for the sickness in people. It could very well be psychological for many, though maybe not all.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Mr. jack]

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


Well, for one, I can't substantiate what is happening with this one particular person in this article. As for references to my own experiences, something causes the effect. Perhaps these studies are focusing on the wrong aspects of the technologies?

If something happens to me, I don't read where someone says "no, that isnt real," and decide that Im nutty. I look at their reasoning for saying it isnt real, and try to discover where their analysis was flawed.

WHO also said the swine flu was a big deal, to the great delight and profit of certain corporations. Do you think they would EVER say that...idk...cell phones are bad? ANY idea how much money is tied up in that industry?

Also, as a note, I really hate people with that whole arrogant academia attitude, where the real world only exists in peer reviewed literature. Peer reviewed literature is not remotely objective, as the AGW scandal showed. That sort of attitude is simply willful, arrogant blindness.

Originally posted by Mr. jack
reply to post by Firefly_

 

In the mean time, I think the best measure one can do now, and I am giving someone the idea to do this, is to make a personal RF jammer for people to use. Affecting an area confined to their person as to not affect anyone else. With the culprit frequencies jammed, they shouldn't have discomfort so long as that solution doesn't bring a new host of problems.

Which it likely would because many jammers run on that same EM Spectrum.. Thus the dilemma in our technology today.

G'day Mr. Jack

I agree.....you'll just replace the RF with more RF:

WFi Jammers and Bluetooth Jammers–A Wifi Jammer is designed to block wireless land networks and bluetooth connections. The wifi/bluetooth jammer transmit electronic waves in 2.4~5.9GHz, and cut-off all Wireless network and bluetooth communications.

wifijammers.com...

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

Edit to add: "I agree" at the beginning of my reply

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by Mr. jack


The idea of jammers is interesting, but as I pointed out in the reply to Damian, I'm more inclined to suspect that it is probably specific implementations of these frequencies that cause most of the issues, vs the frequencies at large, and that would also explain why generic studies regarding frequencies alone would fail. To have a positive study, you would have to find not just the right frequency, but also the exact implementation of that frequency that causes the effect. (ie, the rapid cycling of Bluetooth.)

reply to post by Maybe...maybe not


That's what I said at the end.
The jammers run on the same EM Spectrum, ie RF waves, that they jam.

The use of them would thus be placebo or psychological.

saturnine_sweet they wouldn't actually work though if you are physically affected by RF radiation. It would only work on the ones who have the psychological effect, or non-physical.

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Mr. jack]

Originally posted by saturnine_sweet
reply to post by Maybe...maybe not

 

.....Peer reviewed literature is not remotely objective, as the AGW scandal showed.....

G'day saturnine_sweet

If you go to hospital to have a diagnostic test or a procedure:

- The staff have been trained based on peer reviewed literature

- The equipment used is developed based on peer reviewed literature

- The test or procedure is developed based on peer reviewed literature

..... & on it goes

It is highly likely that peer reviewed literature will save your life one day, if it hasn't already.

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not

[edit on 28-3-2010 by Maybe...maybe not]

reply to post by Mr. jack


G'day Mr. Jack

Yes you did state that & I was showing that info to validate your comment

Kind regards
Maybe...maybe not