US health Care Bill - From an outside / UK perspective

From someone living in the UK there is one small but Massively important detail of the bill going through the congress that people seem to be ignoring.

The outlawing of companies from not insuring people with pre-existing medical conditions.

Personally i have a VSD, which is a hole in the heart and have had it from birth.

If i lived in the USA i'd be screwed for health care and probably unable to get insurence though no fault of my own.

about three years ago i contracted endocarditis, for which i'm on a increased risk for

As i was in the UK i was able to spend a couple of months in hospital being treated without and worries about cost or medical bills.

If i lived in the USA i'd be bankrup by now without a shadow of a doubt.

My heart conditions doesn't affect my every day life, i play soccer, go to the gym three times a week, play squash, go running, and am otherwise in good health.

but under the USA currentl medical schemes i'd doubt i'd get insurence to be honest. Anywhere.

If people on ATS had to stay in a USA hospital to recieve a two / three month course of IV antibiotics how much would that cost you and how do you think your medical companies would bill you for it ?

Millions of people in the US have pre-existing health conditions and somehow manage to survive financially just fine. The notion that anyone in the US that has cancer or some medical condition is broke and living on the street is absurd.

One thing you won't hear from the mass media 75% of those who go bankrupt for health reasons HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE ALREADY. So how is forcing more people to buy health insurance going to fix that?

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

reply to post by jjkenobi


And they are lucky that the U.S. is the MOST charitable country in the world. Most of those who have "no" problem with their expenses are on hospital run charity programs or get charitable contributions through their churches/towns/or large non-profit organizations.

If the economy were to collapse like everyone says it will now, these people relying on charity would be in big trouble.

reply to post by jjkenobi


This thread's author focuses on how the new 'plan' prevents insurance companies from not insuring people with pre-existing medical conditions. ...And you're right, coverage problems are more complicated.

From your reference:

...78 percent of them had health insurance, but many of them were bankrupted anyway because there were gaps in their coverage like co-payments and deductibles and uncovered services," says Woolhandler. "Other people had private insurance but got so sick that they lost their job and lost their insurance."

reply to post by jjkenobi


Take a look at This link.

your argument would make since except its the exact thing the New bill is trying to address.

under the proposed plan, there will be a cap on the amount of your deductible, and no procedure will go over that limit.

Well that is the one good things about it, it will be illegal to turn people away for pre-existing conditions. I have back problems and I have to pay out of pocket every time because it's pre-existing. Even when I had insurance it wasnt covered and I havent had it properly fixed because I cant afford the cost of MRI's and everything else that goes with it. I am waiting to see how much this new bill will cost me monthly, as it is I dont have insurance because I cant afford the 200+ dollars it would cost me a month. I was laid off about two years ago and havent had insurance since and it's really annoying and expensive to go to the doctor. Also when you dont have insurance doctors DO treat you differently like you are some scum bag because you dont have insurance. I have been charged higher rates to see a doctor because of this which is INSANE since cash is upfront and instant payment!

JJkenobi~ For the US being the most generous yes that PISSES me off! We have raised so much money for Haiti but we dont want to raise money that goes to our own people. The only reason people want to help Haiti is because they think it makes them look good ESP Hollywood types. This is why I refuse to donate to anything that doesnt go directly to the US. Yes this may be mean but there are many people here who need help, why do we have to help everyone else when our own people need it?

Originally posted by drsmooth23
reply to post by jjkenobi

 

under the proposed plan, there will be a cap on the amount of your deductible, and no procedure will go over that limit.

You know what happens when the price of a product is capped? The quality goes down while the product remains priced at the limit. Why? Because it's the only way to increase profits.

If you can't raise the price, and need to increase profits -- which EVERY business does over time -- you can only get the additional money from a few places: reducing quality, cheaper labor (this sends companies OUT of the US, and/or in this case: Forcing your product onto as many people as possible in order to obtain maximum exposure.

How does this fit into healthcare? With capped procedure costs, they will need to profit from other areas -- such as lowering the cost of the doctor / technician performing the procedure, reduced cost of purchasing the equipment to begin with, etc. NONE of which is good for the US or our health. Lower paid doctors tend to be less experienced and less qualified. Lower priced equipment tends not to be as well made and will contain even more parts from China.

Do you really want your dialysis machine to be "bargain priced?"

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Millions of people in the US have pre-existing health conditions and somehow manage to survive financially just fine. The notion that anyone in the US that has cancer or some medical condition is broke and living on the street is absurd.

One thing you won't hear from the mass media 75% of those who go bankrupt for health reasons HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE ALREADY. So how is forcing more people to buy health insurance going to fix that?

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

quick question ?

if the 75% of people that go bankrupt when they fall ill have insurence already have health insurance, isn't reform of the system needed ?

Whats the point of paying for a insurance service for you health when the company will likely try and screw you the moment you get ill ?

You might as well not bother to be honest, for all the hastle.

At least in the UK i can become ill, go into my local hospital (very good university teaching ones thank god...), get treatment and not have to worrk about 5 figure bills afterwoods.

If i want 'extras' such as laser eye surgery, or non life threatening treatment such as MRI's for bad back, i can always buy the treatments in the us privately.

Plus.

On a monthly gross of $4500 tha tax on that us $1030 leaving a take home of $3470 a month or a tax rate of 23%. Probably to up mind soon........

Which ain't bad when you include free health care.

but that aside, back to the USA bill.

I've always fancied living and working in the USA, i see jobs identical to the one i'm doing now, but wouldn't dare unless the health situation was changed !




[edit on 23-3-2010 by Jamesy_boy]

reply to post by Jamesy_boy

From someone living in the UK there is one small but Massively important detail of the bill going through the congress that people seem to be ignoring.

The outlawing of companies from not insuring people with pre-existing medical conditions.

That's actually one of the parts that keeps getting repeated over and over and over and over again. We've heard it a million times- 'No more getting denied for preexisting conditions. Hooray!'

Which is pretty much one of the few GOOD things most of us agree on that is in this bill.

What MOST of our problem is, is the fact there is only about .001% GOOD and BENEFICIAL for the people in this bill. And that .001% is what keeps getting thrown in our faces with a side dish of incredulity and disbelief that we aren't happy about it.

But that little tidbit of good news is not what we're griping about. It's the other 99.999% content that the media is not cramming into our brains as the wonderful highlights.

Hi,

I live in the UK and am so glad that we have our National Health Service. No insurance needed, regardless of ability to pay, wealth or status, you get free of charge healthcare and subsidised drugs at £7 a shot.

Yeah, we pay for it through our taxes and its far from perfect, I don't ever see it being perfect, that would be nigh on impossible but our system is what America needs.

Yes it maybe too much of a socialist policy for the US citizens but for such a god fearing Country, remember, if Jesus was real, he would have been a socialist.

I have pet healthcare insurance for my cat, when he needed treatment the policy charge shot up the following year, and it has limits on how much the policy will treat once costs reach an upper specified limit.

It seems like you have the same level of healthcare as my cat has.

reply to post by Tykonos


Tykonos, you can keep your Government health care. Jesus would not have been a socialist. I think he said God helps those who help themselves. Too many in our country and I suspect yours as well, just have a hand out. It is the bleeding heart socialist who suck me dry and bring me down to pay for those who dont want any better. I encounter many people a day who sit back and drink heavily and collect a check from the government. Except the Government is some BS collective who robs me of the fruits of my labor so some lazy ass can stay drunk, have a place to live, get free groceries, a monthly stipend and free healthcare (yes even without this new bill). If people would at least do something for their benefit. We reward laziness and knock anyone on their ass who tries to rise above it. After a while they start wondering why they should even try.
I hasve worked hard my whole life. I have a great job that gives me what I need, not necessarily all I want, and a cadillac health plan. Now I will be taxed on my health plan and more money will be taken from my pockets by those who buy votes with socialist policies.
This is the United States. Each person should be required to do something and get help based on their needs. Gas, Grass or Ass baby. maybe thats something the "enlightened" can understand.

reply to post by vtcajun


I'm sure your Country has its fair share of people, like ours who expect a free ride through life, who have never done a days work.
I'm all for making them people work for their benefits and handouts, but when it comes to peoples health that's a different matter.

I remember seeing a documentary about how an American charity who initially set up to give medical support and treatment to third world countries were spending most of their time actually in the US.
The people there had horrific storys of how they couldn't afford insurance or treatment for serious illnesses such as cancer.
A man said he even had to have his finger amputated as he couldn't afford to have it saved after he severed it badly whilst sawing wood, he was there for something else but still. Here in the Uk we get it all free.

Btw, I think jesus definatley would have been a socialist, I couldn't see him back in the old days charging people money when he went around doing his miracle thing.
I'm sure he said something like, a rich man will find it as hard to get into heaven than a camel to pass through an eye of a needle. the rich bloke asked what he should do, that jesus bloke told him to spread out his wealth. Socialism at its finest

[edit on 24-3-2010 by Tykonos]

reply to post by AshleyD


Yeah its all very well making a law that stops an insurace company from preventing a person from getting cover due to an existing illness, all they have to do is hike up the cost of it to a ridiculous level, they will have to go elsewhere.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Millions of people in the US have pre-existing health conditions and somehow manage to survive financially just fine. The notion that anyone in the US that has cancer or some medical condition is broke and living on the street is absurd.

Bat Spat!!!

Happens all the time -

Nearly destroyed a wing of my family

I speak of experience and you speak from ignorance, likely because you have been insulated... Now caps have been de-capped which fixes the rest of your quote I didn't bother to post now doesn't it???

People dies all the time from piss poor care or just wanting to leave their family what they have worked for.

out of sight out of mind - easy way to preach

mate

Originally posted by Jamesy_boy

Originally posted by jjkenobi
Millions of people in the US have pre-existing health conditions and somehow manage to survive financially just fine. The notion that anyone in the US that has cancer or some medical condition is broke and living on the street is absurd.

One thing you won't hear from the mass media 75% of those who go bankrupt for health reasons HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE ALREADY. So how is forcing more people to buy health insurance going to fix that?

Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

quick question ?

if the 75% of people that go bankrupt when they fall ill have insurence already have health insurance, isn't reform of the system needed ?

Whats the point of paying for a insurance service for you health when the company will likely try and screw you the moment you get ill ?

You might as well not bother to be honest, for all the hastle.

At least in the UK i can become ill, go into my local hospital (very good university teaching ones thank god...), get treatment and not have to worrk about 5 figure bills afterwoods.

If i want 'extras' such as laser eye surgery, or non life threatening treatment such as MRI's for bad back, i can always buy the treatments in the us privately.

Plus.

On a monthly gross of $4500 tha tax on that us $1030 leaving a take home of $3470 a month or a tax rate of 23%. Probably to up mind soon........

Which ain't bad when you include free health care.

but that aside, back to the USA bill.

I've always fancied living and working in the USA, i see jobs identical to the one i'm doing now, but wouldn't dare unless the health situation was changed !




[edit on 23-3-2010 by Jamesy_boy]

HERE we have a group of folks who unwittingly and unflinchingly protect whichever corporate power structure that is in place, because business creates jobs and therefore all business is good business. The word freedom is the backdrop

I see it as freedom to be screwed personally

This bill augments and limits corporate raiders at the same time, however the folks mentioned above would not have stood for an anti corporate government plan, so our stupid politicians pandered... And look what we get!!!

amazing!!!

Damned either way here

they will all be struck down one day sadly - some will lose it all and hopefully not have the gal to moan then.

Originally posted by Tykonos
Hi,

I live in the UK and am so glad that we have our National Health Service. No insurance needed, regardless of ability to pay, wealth or status, you get free of charge healthcare and subsidised drugs at £7 a shot.

Yeah, we pay for it through our taxes and its far from perfect, I don't ever see it being perfect, that would be nigh on impossible but our system is what America needs.

Yes it maybe too much of a socialist policy for the US citizens but for such a god fearing Country, remember, if Jesus was real, he would have been a socialist.

I have pet healthcare insurance for my cat, when he needed treatment the policy charge shot up the following year, and it has limits on how much the policy will treat once costs reach an upper specified limit.

It seems like you have the same level of healthcare as my cat has.

i agre with you the nhs is wonderful, not perfect but i wouldnt want it to go.

my dad recently had a liver transplant and since he was diagnosed with liver disease from a car accident, he has been treated well all the way to now.
im so glad when we had tocall an ambulance or doctor,(which was pretty much every week) we never worried about how much it would cost.
and his doctors were perfect anf his nurses we're fantastic.
he gets all his medication free because hes on disability.
i still pay for my perscriptions but i dont care £7 is fine when i need it, and i definatly dont mind paying my taxes for the nhs and then not having any care, at least i know if i am ill i can go with no worries.

my fiancee has type 1 diabetes to and he does have to pay for his insulin ever because he is medically exempt and there are many reasons and illnesses that constitute the same policy.

i think its great yeah it isnt perfect but nothing ever will be.
if it wasnt for the nhs i probally wouldnt have a father by the end of this year he would of been lucky to last until the end of april.

it really annoys me when i see these news reports in america using our national heath service as an excuse as to why they shouldnt have the bill.
yes there are some terrible stories but they are few and far between.
what about the thousands of babies born in the uk that are saved and born naturally and the parents dont have to worry about paying.
or like my self the transplants done each day (not just liver) that help the person live many many years.

even stven hawkings uses the nhs, he goes to my local hospital.

reply to post by vtcajun


i dont think you should attack this persons, beliefs.
i could attack everything you just said but i wont stup to your level.

reply to post by kerrichin


I did not attack this person's beliefs. read the post again. I did not call this person any names nor did I say this perason would burn in hell or all non-believers are pagans or any other rhetoric that gets spewed from time to time. I do not force my religious beliefs on anyone.
Likewise, I do not like having other peoples opinions and desires forced upon me through the legislative process, which by the way is happening more and more in this country.
Our country fought 2 wars against tyranny. One against the crown and the other against the tyranny still being forced upon the people of the United States. I am sure there is little American History being taught outside the U.S. so others know why the Civil War came about. And it was not slavery. We are seeing a resurgence of power grabbing by the government in the interest of Corporations. The small businesses in this country are failing becuase policies from the past/present and future are costing those businesses and individuals who can least afford it, the most. Large corporations push policy that benefit themselves. The average small business or average individual cannot afford to buy 50 Senators+1.
So back to the issue of me attacking. Read what I was saying and not what I didnt say. You as a citizen of another country are free to hold your own beliefs and viewpoints as you know them. Unless you live and work in this country you should not bash how we believe.

Some of my forefathers fought the crown. Others were placed on a reservation in New Mexico. Others fought against northern agression. Another was exiled from the reservation because she fell in love with a white man. Hard work has been instilled in me my whole life. I am far from being wealthy. I struggle each day to pay bills. But we struggle on running a small business and working for a large corporation. I work 7 days a week, 17hrs a day. I am tired of every dime I make, 6 cents goes to local, state and federal governments to take care of those who are unwilling to work. There are only 3 things I expect of my government and I will gladly pay my share. Take care of the infrastructure, provide for a national defense and inspect the national food and water system to keep it safe.

People in this country are very charitable. We have allowed Govdernment to become a substitute for the family unit. Families no longer take care of each other becuase Government has made it too easy to abdicate this responsibility. There is no personal responsibility anymore. We are governed in every aspect of our lives.

So I think it is you guys in England attacking us and looking down your noses at us. Maybe it is because you have dealt with living under socialist policies your entire lives. The fight for individual freedom has been bred out of you. So when you acuse someone of attacking look at your own posts. Like the comment about us having insurance as good as a cat has in England. Our healthcare is heads above that offered in GB. I know many people from GB who tell me that the healthcare there sucks compared to what they have received in the U.S.

Sorry if I attacked you in this post. I have not had the fight bred out of me yet. Maybe it is just the combination of Native American, French, English, Scottish, Irish, German and Spanish blood coursing through my veins. OMG, I just realized all the bloodlines, except 1, came here looking for something better. Wonder why? Probably too much government.

reply to post by vtcajun


Hi

I'm sorry if you took my post as a dig at the USA and American people, it wasn't intended to.

I do have opinions like you will have about other places abroad so please don't take my view on your healthcare system as a bash at the US.

I don't know where you got the view that we English look down our noses at you, we have more American influence in our culture than we have from our EU neighbours. Maybe that's why 99% of the time we English are always the bad guy or the crazy mad one in the films that you make

I just can't understand why people are so against the idea of having a free healthcare system for all, paid for by taxation.

The bit about you having the same level of healthcare as my cat, is sad but true, i think you deserve better.


[edit on 24-3-2010 by Tykonos]

i really can see why people hate free health care so much, im not forced into anything and we also have the option to have private healthcare if we so desired, which we pay for.

like the above poster said we have alot of american influences here in england.

and i do not believe that 'freedom' has been breed out of us youll, be surprised what freedoms we have compared to your country.

anyone can go to college under 19 and when you reach over 19 there are many options we can take to help pay for the funds.

also the royalty we have really are just a tourist attraction, and last time i looked the americans are one of thelargest number of tourists to go see the royals in london especially.


also dont suspect people dont know much about your history becaue youll be surprised what people know.
surely if you are so upset about your counrty so something about like your fore fathers did.
surely if they sat around moaning about the taxes incurred from our crown you would still be owned by britain