For or Against Death Penalty? Why?

I hope this is the correct forum, I wasnt sure.

Are you for or against the death penalty and why?
This is controversial subject for many, another thread here went off on this road so I thought I would start its own thread. IM sure its been done before but I have changed my own veiws and would like to gauge where ATSers are currently at with it.

When I was younger, I was rather naive and beleived that the death penalty was akin to murder by the state and as such, two wrongs did not make a right.
However, as years passed and the broader world and its goings on became clear to me, it seemed that 'the system' was in favour of criminals in the long run. Woefully inadequate sentences, unthinkable paroles of dangerous crims who re-offended again and again, and so on.

It seems to me now that despite the fact that killing a murderer wont bring back the victim, nor do I beleive the death penalty will deter, but it will prevent re-offence, and save innocent lives.
Sadly physcologist who blather their well meaning phsycobabble about rehabilitation, have probly never been victims themselves, nor the parole board folk, who are al;l human and fallable.

But todays forensic science is quite top notch and the odds of an innocent person getting ther death penalty would be astronomical, especially with DNA evidence.
Further if one life is lost for every thousand guilty, I think though regretable, this human error is acceptable, but advances in forensics should lessen those odds considerably.

I dont think there is anyone alive who wouldnt want some scumbag dead who raped/murdered, molested their loved ones, even if they wont admit it.
Crime on the whole is our fault as a society, because we tolerate it. We elect
police to deal with our problem, and they are outnumbered, and thwarted by the very laws they have sworn to uphold, they do the dirty work, and the court lets them go.

If we ever expect our loved ones, children, women to be safe on the streets, we must cut the bleeding heart crap and get tough. We cannot sit by and accept our governor and legislators pathetic efforts, and expect police and laws to deter crime, it never has worked and never will because criminals dont care about the law and arnt concerned with possible consequences.

This is self evident even where the death penalty exist, there are murders etc.
law does not deter, death penalty and 600 year prison sentences dont deter, and police dont deter. The system dosent work.
Atleast with the death penalty you actually prevent further offences from that crim.

Prison and juvenile centers do not work, most who pass within, emerge more hardened and worse than they were to begin with. We need new and creative
means to curb criminal behaviours, 'lock them up' is an archaic idea thathas had itts day.

I say bring back the death penalty for the worst, abolish laws that makes criminals out of otherwise decentpeaceful people, and overhaul the legal/criminal /justice system.


What say you?

I am completley opposed, due to the string of mistakes in the UK which if we had the death penalty would have resulted in a number of innocents being sent to their deaths.

If I can not trust the system not to put innocents to death then I can not support the death penalty..

I do feel that the current sentancing in the UK is a joke, life should mean life.. and real sentances for other crimes..

A slapped wrist and a don't do it again is not the way to resolve the issue, nor will taking the risk of executing innocent people resolve the issue (for me at least)

Edit to add: but I do agree the system needs a complete overhall..

[edit on 12/3/10 by thoughtsfull]

I am for it as long as the forensics are there. I also believe it should go to serial rapists, child predators, and dui's. My uncle is out after killing 3 people due to dui's. I think he should have been put to death 20 years ago personally.

Good post - it's been a strange few days here on ATS, let us remember what we're here for - personally to learn and to debate, I'd like to respect others opinions even if I disagree with them, it's not always easy though.

I do agree with the IDEA of the death penalty, I think beyond a certain point you can renounce your human rights by your actions.

I DO NOT believe any country currently has a justice system capable of making this decision.

reply to post by jokei


And how can you learn to be a "good man" - when your death?!
Violence against violence is then the next paradoxon.

Originally posted by cushycrux
reply to post by jokei

 

And how can you learn to be a "good man" - when your death?!
Violence against violence is then the next paradoxon.

Good point, but then they dont learn to be good men/women in jail either. Whats your solution and how much will it cost? Further, what makes you beleive that a person capable of pre meditated horrific crime, can be rehabilitated anyway?

Some people are just damaged units from the outset I think and therefore should be removed from genepool.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

reply to post by cushycrux


I do agree with you to a point, but feel that beyond a point learning to be good just won't cut it. Personally I think with crimes such as child abuse that it doesn't matter if someone can be redeemed - I think of society as a living organism, sometimes cancers will need to be excised.

I reiterate the point that I don't think there's a justice system worthy or capable of implementing the death penalty.

Personally I’m 100% opposed to the death penalty because I think that we as humans really ought to get our priorities in order, and learn that murder was never right and never will be right and answer me this…..if we kill a killer is that right??

……No it's not because 2 wrongs Do Not make a right and never will.

Although please don't get me wrong killers, rapists, child abusers are the scum of the earth in my opinion and should be 100% punished but I feel that murder (because that's what the death penalty is... Murdering a fellow human being) is wrong and will always be wrong and something that we as humans should be mature enough to realize.

I reiterate the point that I don't think there's a justice system worthy or capable of implementing the death penalty.

Im not sure I follow this, the death penalty already exist around the world. *???*

The obvious thing against it, that the police and society can target individuals,a nd murder them if they want, and the people have done nothing. Obviously plenty of innocent people have been murdered this way. Once the mob target you in life, they do not stop until they end up killing you.

Mob rule, is the one thing i would have against it.

There are pluses to it, but the fact that any innocent people are murdered by these scum in government or police, is enough to say its wrong.

People just make up stuff to get the police to murder people, and they go around murdering anyone they want, while the poor people being murdered by police and government vendettas, cannot live a life.

and should be 100% punished

Punishment does not equate to rehabilitation and therefor is pointless. Nor does punishment (less than capital punishment) prevent reoffence if the person is willing to reoffend.

Punishment for its own sake is not justice, its merely revenge.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

reply to post by wayaboveitall


Small clarification, sorry - I might be being a little obscure. By "Capable" I mean a justice system that can competently 100% of the time, JUSTLY apply the death sentence. Our legal systems are flawed.

People just make up stuff to get the police to murder people, and they go around murdering anyone they want, while the poor people being murdered by police and government vendettas, cannot live a life.

This is an extrordinary claim Andy, one that demands evidence Im afraid.
Im sure there corrupt police who murder, but I fail to see how this has anything to do with the death penalty?
Police do not execute sentencing.

Small clarification, sorry - I might be being a little obscure. By "Capable" I mean a justice system that can competently 100% of the time, JUSTLY apply the death sentence. Our legal systems are flawed.

Both understood and agreed. Nothing is 100% perfect however.
Innocent people die everyday, many at the hands of others.
Those who might be sentenced to death accidently, cannot be entirely innocent anyway Imo, unless the whole thing is a setup and evidence planted in some conspiracy etc etc. But the bulk of such events would not be the case imo, and anyone getting themselves in a position to be accused and tried and found guilty of such a crime is likely to be a scumbag of some degree anyway imo.
Thjere is always more than meets the eye, or the press.

No system will ever be 100%, given thats a fact due human fallability, what are acceptable numbers? one innocent in a thousand guilty scum? ten thousand?

[edit on 12-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

I had this discussion with some people at uni the other day.
Im strongly against it, for a number of reasons. I believe that no one has the right to decide who lives and who dies, I believe that death is the easy way out for criminals, a life sentance is much harder. And theres always that possobility that they're wrongly accused

but why should you and I superdebz, the already overburdened taxpayer, be forced to pay to keep a scumbag fed and housed for life?
How much does it cost per criminal (max security) to be kept for 1 year in the US?
anyone have figures?

reply to post by wayaboveitall

www.heartsandminds.org...

22k per person and 32 billion a year total.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by ventian]

Heres a side idea to consider, if we abandon the death penalty, instead incarcerate for life (meaning till death), should the criminal not repay society for its leniency?
How about involuntary service as vivisection subjects? research subjects that are human (atleast physically) must be better than innocent animals no? and more accurate studies could be done.
The scumbag gives something back. How about that? more inhumane and unusual than a bullet in the head or capital punishment?
waste not, want not eh?

[edit on 12-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

Originally posted by ventian
reply to post by wayaboveitall

 

Last I checked it was over 30k, I believe it was closer to 40k but I don't wanna jump to high without sources.

Thankyou, lets accept that as a standard cost in $us. Suppose this criminal lives another 40 years, thats $30kx 40 =$1.2 mil and thats for 1 scumbag.
Is this acceptable cost when hospitals, schools are seriously underfunded?

22k per person and 32 billion a year total.

Holy smokes Folks, thats alot of money that could be better spent Imo.
Freind is that the entire US prisonsystem, or just the worst?
I wonder what the figures are for death row alone? Another waste of money while the hopless appeals system can be drawn out for years. Imo waiting years to die is crueler than having it over with straight away.

[edit on 12-3-2010 by wayaboveitall]

Originally posted by wayaboveitall

Originally posted by ventian
reply to post by wayaboveitall

 

Last I checked it was over 30k, I believe it was closer to 40k but I don't wanna jump to high without sources.

Thankyou, lets accept that as a standard cost in $us. Suppose this criminal lives another 40 years, thats $30kx 40 =$1.2 mil and thats for 1 scumbag.
Is this acceptable cost when hospitals, schools are seriously underfunded?

sorry i had to edit it with the govs numbers. so 22k x 40 = 880000 per inmate, most non violent drug offenders no less