Please read, this is very important "Joe Stack and John Bedell Connection"

Guys use your brains, if only for a second. If this were true they wouldn’t need to scan for news channels and such like, they'd simply need to scan for a special signal that they themselves create at the end of each day. An agreed summary of important events for then to pick up yesterday. They themselves would be the provider of their own news. This is simply a story meant to entertain and as such succeeds admirably.

Originally posted by Asherah

Originally posted by Pocky
I believe, that thanks to this very important information, the now have changed the story about this guy in the media.

Now they are saying he had a history of mental illness and was bipolar.

I was just getting ready to post about this. I was noticing on cnn last night that the story had been changed around. It's also very interesting that they are starting to talk more and more about "conspiracy" web sites and referring to them as "anti goverment" and "right wing conspiracy theorists" and how these sites are "stirring up" dangerous information. And now connecting sites like ATS as being basically a place where the mentally ill people post about things such as "9/11 truth".

Anyone see what is happening here? They are starting to get it out into the mainstream that not only was the pentagon shooter "mentally ill" but so are conspiracy theorists, and people like us who come to sites like ats.

[edit on 6-3-2010 by Asherah]

How many of us are right wingers anyway?

reply to post by MaxBlack


Thats it.. from now on instead of "The dog ate my homework"

its:

"HAARP ate my homework"

reply to post by Pocky


Is there a problem with the link to you tube or did someone hit a cord.
And
Now the clean up crew is in action

Watcher

Once again GLP provides us with a semi-elaborate hoax that reinforces our favorite american delusion:

That the government is an almighty agency. Honestly - if you're going to make up stuff and post it on the internet, why not for once choose a narrative that has another moral than saying: government has god-like powers?

Also, isn't there a legit claim around that GLP itself is a disinfo op? Wasn't there an issue with strange IP's and stuff?

Anyway. this is just a story someone wrote. If he was for real or a talented hoaxer he would have given us a means of independently corrobarating what he wrote. And he wouldn't have followed the standard internet hoax template by the book if he wasn't one of those 2 things.

But what's wrong with us that every conspiracy theory we make up incorporates an image of the gov in which the powers previously ascribed to god are transferred to the gov?

reply to post by traditionaldrummer


ill agree with traditionaldrummer. i dont know how this would even qualify as an "elaborate" hoax. the only thing that would prove this to me, is sadly the authors mysterious and somewhat violent death whilst acting against the government in some way.

reply to post by kdial1


not entirely believable. A sattelite cannot see into the future. The only way they would know the scores ahead of time of the hockey game and other things is because they Can influence anyone with fear and money ( God to most)

Hacking the Fbi, Cia, Or nsa is just plain stupid. Considering most of those guys use Quantum Computers, Fibreoptic Oc-48 and Faster Internet connections you honestly think a math teacher would be able to hack into there highly encrypted systems. and Take information off there without being caught? It doesnt matter how many proxies hes connected to, even if they are Bot netting the cia and Nsa, Theres always a starting location that can be always found. Government Cryyptologist are much more advanced with computers then anyone else.

you couldd connect and gain full control to anyones computer with Telnet. Built in feature that microsoft gives you. Any hacking attempts have been done and are no longer full proof.

Government watches and knows everything that is on the internet. Theres many sites that get shutdown daily, that are conspiracy related, or just factual. THis one wont get shutdown because of all the advertisements and cash the site owner brings in.

In a way its a trap. They know everyones location, information about them, etc..

If this guy wants to spread the information around the internet and wont until hes dead then thats just retarted.

If he truely has all these files from the government that he stole via hacking and cracking then why isnt it all posted? why hasnt he setup a small Internet service in a random location useing a random server that connects to many 100s of thousands of proxies so no1 can find and shut it down?

Most of you proably donpt know what Bot netting is?

Bot netting is a powerful weapon. Its a small file no more then 250kb

Basically it goes onto the computer, Cannot be detected by any virus scanner as its just code to take over the internet connection.

It uses your internets bandwidth. so think about it this way.

you have 10 computers. 10 seperate internet connections going at about 5 mbps. You use all the internet resources those computers are provideing, and send dedicated attack to the Ip you choose. So many Signals are being sent out to that ip( the internet source) that it crashes. DENIes it of service.

A massive attack with 100s of thousands of computers could cripple many cities. Could # up everything. Firewalls are meaningless, so are anti virus scanners.

I can't believe I'm going to say this, but...

it appears to me that no one here has taken a BASIC college level physics course.


These authors make up stories by making themselves seem like they're being chased. Then they use some "professional sounding" scientific term that the average American won't understand.

reply to post by boredsilly

they'd simply need to scan for a special signal that they themselves create at the end of each day. An agreed summary of important events for then to pick up yesterday.

Of course...like hockey scores.

Maybe they use it as their Tivo too.

reply to post by highlyoriginal

This is the kind of post that became increasingly common around september last year. Simple dismissals and personal attacks on OPs do nothing to further intelligent debate. On the contrary the seek to end it by placing subtle doubts in the minds of other members.

Critical debate is a hallmark of ATS and is a trait that separates this site from all others.

The theories of the mystery poster have the characteristics of an excellent hoax. How many members would love to believe there was a righteous connection between the Beldon and Stack? I certainly would.

There are a few conclusions I have come away with over the last few years after growing up a few miles from the CIA and meeting certain amoral people such as Frank Terpil who was sold out for becoming an "independant contractor," as working in cable and network news then later discovering ATS membership and listening to coast to coast.

1. Facts presented by the MSM are certainly not as simple as they are presented and there is an entire industry designed to obscure facts from citizens.
2. Our government sponsors research and programs that are antithetical to the common perception of democracy and would not be tolerated by the average citizen were they even minimally disclosed.
3. There are spin doctors employed by the government and private groups actively trying to discredit intelligent, critical debate of issues such as UFOs, the Kennedy assasination, the Fed and 911.

What I find most disturbing is the increasingly obvious possibility that the spin doctors have targeted this site as a part of the overall media play.

The only defense against having threads hijacked is to consider the source to the degree that is possible and pause before allowing yourself to get drawn into a meaningless sidebar conversation.

I do not advocate censure. For all I know this thread is an entertaining hoax. Just think twice before ending the debate at the suggestion of member whose previous posts have been primarily negative and intended to end all debate.

Use the friend and foe buttons to help identify trends and you may come to the same conclusion I have reached.

Originally posted by boredsilly
Guys use your brains, if only for a second. If this were true they wouldn’t need to scan for news channels and such like, they'd simply need to scan for a special signal that they themselves create at the end of each day. An agreed summary of important events for then to pick up yesterday. They themselves would be the provider of their own news. This is simply a story meant to entertain and as such succeeds admirably.

There's a hole in your logic. They are supposedly reading from the future. Why would they bother to create a signal that they had already heard 27 hours before?

reply to post by die_another_day


The guy telling the story is not describing an effect predicted or allowed by conventional physics. He is claiming that the Lorentz transformation - which is a mathematical method of translating information about an event or series of events from one inertial reference frame(point of view) to another - as understood by the mainstream physics community is in error. He suggests that the true effect was discovered by accident, and that this satellite exploits this surprising effect.

I'm not going to expand any further here, but to say the satellite is able to do this because of a flaw in the way the Lorentz transformations were derived.

Of course what he is saying is not true, but as long as we are going to talk about it we might as well have the story straight. Whether or not many ATSers have taken undergrad physics should not effect their perception of the story, because he is claiming that his story invloves an effect which is admittedly in disagreement with the mainstream understanding of special relativity. Or rather that the theory is flawed? Either way, this is not the stuff of undergrad physics.

Conventional Lorentz tranformations are used in the development and operation of many satellites, and the actual observed effects only seem to confirm special relativity as it is understood by the mainstream. There is no reason to believe that an anomaly such as the one described in the OP does or could exist. These phenomena are fairly well understood and there are no anomalous results to speak of within the body of actual experimental evidence.

Beyond the fact that the well developed evidence produced experimentally by the scientific community is in direct disagreement with the effects reported in the OP, those effects don't make sense intuitively. If the effect on observational devices which take their measurement in the form of electromagnetism(ie the satellite in question and any observation satellite) of travelling fast(this speed has to be within a fairly well defined range if it is to maintain a remotely stable orbit - it is bound by orbital physics) in orbit is to see into the future, then why isn't this always the effect? There are many satellites taking measurement of EM in orbit right now, for example weather satellites that just look at earth with regular cameras operating the spectrum of visible light. If going fast caused you to see into the future, one would expect all of these satellites to exhibit that effect. They do not.

The fundamental physical effect that is the premis of the entire story is not a part of reality. Not to mentional the fact that it wouldn't be gathering information about hockey game, but that has already been discussed.

Apart from the facts of the case, this is an interesting cultural phenomenon. Here we have a story that rivals mainsteam Scifi movies, yet we are being told it is true, and that it is going on right now, that we are reading the communications of the main character, and that it is all tied to real major events in the news over the past month. And, we somehow feel like we are in on it by being on ATS and putting in our 2 cents. Ha. And here I am playing along. Immersive interactive entertainment media seamlessly integrated into our reality. The TV of the future?

Originally posted by RMFX1
There's a hole in your logic. They are supposedly reading from the future. Why would they bother to create a signal that they had already heard 27 hours before?

In order to have heard it in the past it would have to exist in the future. So they would still have to make it. If it wasn't going to be made in the future by them they wouldn't have anything to listen to in the past. It's not like they could listen to it and then not make it.

I believe this is some grade-A disinformation. We know for a fact that the government has stated they plan to infiltrate conspiracy theorists sites. And I believe that is what this is.

The thing is, I don't doubt much of what was said. I would not be shocked if these individuals were connected.

They want to discredit conspiracy theories and anyone who discusses the subject. They want to bolster government support. What we're seeing here is a man running into a building yelling bomb to get people out of it. TPTB are trying to get people to not listen to this stuff anymore, whether it is because they perceive it to be ridiculous, or because they fear their safety.

I believe the most important thing to discuss in relation to all of this is whether or not Stacks and Bedell consciously did what they did or if they were something else. Sleeper agents, Manchurian Candidates, etc. I find it funny how people are labeling these individuals right-wing conspiracy theorists when there is little to no indication they were conservatives or liberals. In fact both individuals seemed to have been above the false left-right paradigm. Either way, if they did it purposely or they were controlled in some sense,they achieved what is wanted; spreading fear about conspiracy theorists, people outside the American political paradigm, and looking to control the internet.

I believe those three themes will be big for events to come.

Originally posted by OnceReturned

Originally posted by RMFX1
There's a hole in your logic. They are supposedly reading from the future. Why would they bother to create a signal that they had already heard 27 hours before?

In order to have heard it in the past it would have to exist in the future. So they would still have to make it. If it wasn't going to be made in the future by them they wouldn't have anything to listen to in the past. It's not like they could listen to it and then not make it.

But how would it all begin and which one would come first? Would they hear the signal for the first time having only thought about doing it previously..and then take it from there?

reply to post by die_another_day


Very Low Freq
Pass's threw all matter and space dose it not?

What if it breached plains or were affected by strings some how?

Water has a transition zone in which tempeture gradents affect sonar waves.

The layer that reflects rf waves in the atmosphre has such at zone maybe there is a harmonic we quite dont tell grad students about.
Much less thus effected gravitational waves bounceing around.
That might pose as a carriour for emf waves.
As AC might be carried on DC waves.

Look up USGS Gravity maps.
Overlay them with the Mag Maps.
Look for holes.
Then dial us back.
Ya might have a new perspective on things.

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Watcher

Originally posted by RMFX1
But how would it all begin and which one would come first? Would they hear the signal for the first time having only thought about doing it previously..and then take it from there?

It seems to me that if the claim is that they are getting information from the future, by recieving information from a specific event(in this case their own memo meant for their past selves) in the future, then that event has to actually happen. Otherwise it is not the future. The future consists of the events that will happen, and if they get the information from some broadcast they make in the future, and then fail to actually make that broadcast, where did they get the information from in the first place? It couldn't have been the future if that event doesn't actually end up occuring in the future.

I suppose that they would plan to make a memo, say, tomorrow, then they will use their crystal ball and see that memo today. But they would then actually have to make the memo tomorrow, and if it wasn't set in stone that they were going to make the memo tomorrow then they wouldn't be able to see that memo today. Because if they weren't going to make it tomorrow, then it wouldn't be a part of the future. Once they see the memo they make tomorrow, they can be 100% certain that they will end up making that memo.

A paradox arises if you try to think of what would happen if, upon recieving tomorrows memo, they decided to try to not create that memo tomorrow. I think that somehow they would end up creating it no matter what, but under what circumstances this would happen - or what it would feel like to be compelled against your will to do something like this - I cannot say.

The memo appears in the crystal ball first, and then the next day they create that memo.

(By memo I mean whatever signal they send to their past selves through the satellite, and by crystal ball I mean satellite)

This thread has been moved due to to staff concerns over the validity of the claims made in the original article.

If proper evidence is supplied of the claims made, the thread will be re-assessed.

I wouldn't worry about threads like this putting people off ATS - the "truther" and "tea party" nonsense that is often spouted on this site have that effect on many casual browsers anyway. Stories like this, although almost certainly hoaxes, are at least vaguely interesting and original, especially if a bit of effort and thought is put into them to make them seem somewhat plausible. Makes a change from the usual political/religious/"truther" "commentaries" that seem to swamp this board anyway.

this is the main reason why sites like abovetopsecret.com should be shut down by the law enforcement for spreading rumors and fake politics.The owners just want to make money.