The Boys From Brazil: Nazis in South America

I feel obliged to post in this thread to bring more precise information to all ATS members. I will try to cover most of the subjects with just a few lines.

First of all I must say that I am Brazilian and I am familiar with all of the rumors brought up once again in this thread.

Starting with the german scientists in the Amazon forest, they were doing just the same as their americans, french, japanese or russians colleagues. It was and still is very common to have science expeditions in that area of the country. Despite the swastika those men were wearing, they were after the same knowledge about the local resources, the natural medicines and the ethnic groups up there. The major pharmaceutical companies of today make use of much worse tactics to achieve the same goals, but that is another story.

Regarding the Nazi connection with South America, it is safe to say it was due to the fact that this continent was perfect to war refugees and war criminals as well. Sixty years ago the immigration control was very loose and acquiring documents (fake or real) would not be a problem to those guys. However, their intention was simply to get away, not to build the fourth reich from here. As far as I know, most nazi refugees choose Chile and Argentina first and then Brazil and Uruguay later to live after the war was over.

Regarding Mengele and the city of the twins, with all due respect....it is just nonsense. That rumor was created by one Argentinian writer and he could not be more untrue about the whole story. It is true that in the south portion of Brazil, there are many cities were the population is nearly all descendant of germans. The same applies to italians and japaneses. If you research a bit you would learn that Brazil, in its majority, is formed by European descendant population. We have all ethnicities of the world in one country. Anyway, that phenomenon of high twin population begun before Mengele, allegedly, went there.

For unexplainable reasons, the same phenomenon occured in another brazilian city, Pedralva. The city has roughly 12000 inhabitants and lots of twins. It is much above than the world average and as far as we know there was no nazi doctor around there at all. Not to mention it is located in another region.

Here are a few links for your enjoyment. The first one is a journalistic piece about the city of the twins and the second is a video about the other twin city. I will translate the title for you...it says "Gaúcha (from the Rio Grande do Sul state) city refuses title of Mengele's twin land". I am sure you can make use of google translator to find out about the rest.

g1.globo.com...

www.youtube.com...

I hope you don't mind my challenging some of your post.

Originally posted by mailboxuser2009
I feel obliged to post in this thread to bring more precise information to all ATS members. I will try to cover most of the subjects with just a few lines.

First of all I must say that I am Brazilian and I am familiar with all of the rumors brought up once again in this thread.

Starting with the german scientists in the Amazon forest, they were doing just the same as their americans, french, japanese or russians colleagues. It was and still is very common to have science expeditions in that area of the country. Despite the swastika those men were wearing, they were after the same knowledge about the local resources, the natural medicines and the ethnic groups up there. The major pharmaceutical companies of today make use of much worse tactics to achieve the same goals, but that is another story.

Off the top, i couldn't agree more about the pharmaceutical companies. I would add that logging companies, too, are devastating Brazil. Once you remove the trees, the soil in the jungles is not rich enough in nutrients to sustain crops, so it just doesn't work.

But regarding the Nazi's....when in their history do we see an analogue to them being "after the same knowledge" as other nations? I would imagine that they WERE after the same stuff, and quite a bit more. I would suspect that the only thing that could have kept them from finding some of the great secrets of S. America would be the dense jungle.

Given the desire for money and gold, i would suspect that the Nazi's spend quite a bit of time searching for Eldorado, as well as Monteczuma's gold. I would also suspect that they spent quite a bit of time plumbing the depths of the esoteric knowledge of the aboriginal shaman.

I would be certain that, given the lack of traditional ethics, the aboriginal population was experimented on to some degree. I cannot imagine it would be otherwise.

Regarding the Nazi connection with South America, it is safe to say it was due to the fact that this continent was perfect to war refugees and war criminals as well. Sixty years ago the immigration control was very loose and acquiring documents (fake or real) would not be a problem to those guys. However, their intention was simply to get away, not to build the fourth reich from here. As far as I know, most nazi refugees choose Chile and Argentina first and then Brazil and Uruguay later to live after the war was over.

If there intention was not to form the Fourth Reich, then what is the Red House Report talking about?

Regarding Mengele and the city of the twins, with all due respect....it is just nonsense. That rumor was created by one Argentinian writer and he could not be more untrue about the whole story. It is true that in the south portion of Brazil, there are many cities were the population is nearly all descendant of germans. The same applies to italians and japaneses. If you research a bit you would learn that Brazil, in its majority, is formed by European descendant population. We have all ethnicities of the world in one country. Anyway, that phenomenon of high twin population begun before Mengele, allegedly, went there.

For unexplainable reasons, the same phenomenon occured in another brazilian city, Pedralva. The city has roughly 12000 inhabitants and lots of twins. It is much above than the world average and as far as we know there was no nazi doctor around there at all. Not to mention it is located in another region.

Here are a few links for your enjoyment. The first one is a journalistic piece about the city of the twins and the second is a video about the other twin city. I will translate the title for you...it says "Gaúcha (from the Rio Grande do Sul state) city refuses title of Mengele's twin land". I am sure you can make use of google translator to find out about the rest.

g1.globo.com...

www.youtube.com...

No argument with that. The Mengele connection with the "twin cities" is, in my opinion, less causative. I don't think he caused the phenomena insomuch as he was studying it so he could replicate it.

reply to post by NichirasuKenshin


so, care to tell the rest of the forum what your issue with Haarman is?

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
reply to post by Regenstorm

 

Ah.. Ok.. In that case I'm not really interested... I wasted enough time of my life with Haarman.. I kinda guessed you'd bring him up. I thought you were for real.

You know what it is with those conspiracy writers, you don't have to believe what they say, you got to check their sources.
Haarmann refers to this book.
Many German U-Boot sites refer to this very credible book, just google it.

For those of you who are not really paying attention to what is happening in Europe right now....Germany is likely going to end up owning Greece. There is a "bailout" that is being worked on to circumvent EU rules.

Lets just see. Remember, the Red House document said the Fourth Reich would be built using economic measures instead of military.

On a side note, Portugal is in trouble too. I hope ArMaP is able to weather this storm and stay on ATS.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


You may count yourself to those.

Germany cannot own Greece, the EU might, but they already do.
Germany itself is occupied ever since WW2.
Germany is officially still at war!
www.reichsland-bayern.de...

reply to post by mailboxuser2009

Its not that Mengele caused the abnormal rates, its the reverse causal direction. The abnormal rates led him THERE! And then he figured with studying their population differences from the rest of the world, he could find the secret to twinning and later cloning...

Theres already more than enough evidence the Nazis settled in to S America but not for their next reich, probably just a waypoint settled by people who wanted to lay low, to help others who wanted to continue...

Originally posted by Regenstorm
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

 

You may count yourself to those.

Germany cannot own Greece, the EU might, but they already do.
Germany itself is occupied ever since WW2.
Germany is officially still at war!
www.reichsland-bayern.de...

The EU will soon be dead.

If Germany provides Greece with enough money to stabilize the economy, then they will have the leverage to exert considerable influence and control over Greece.

Yes, it is against the EU law. But that soon won't matter. The EU was sloppy about how they let nations in, and it will cost them all the Union and possibly their own autonomy.

reply to post by Ridhya


At least you get the causation right - that's already more than others have understood.

But mailbox is right in saying that the cited book DOES NOT prove Mengeles presence there.

He didn't say it's impossible; the book just relies on conjecture for the most part.

I don't believe that anyone with some historic knowledge would ever disagree with the statement that some Nazis escaped to South America. That's sure. The extent and nature of the emigration is what is disputed between historians and amateurs/journalists.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by mailboxuser2009


Look, I don't have anything bad to say about brazil. I just think it should be said.
Nobody is saying that brazil is a nazi safe haven on my side. Except maybe some zionists.

You can't ignore that some did go there though. But, if I went to brazil, or anyone, it would be pretty hard to find me in the jungle living with Indians.

The fact is Germans' were going to attempt to colonize in brazil and weren't successful. They probably would have tried to take advantage of people as well.

The point is they didn't win. They certainly did not anticipate that they would be defeated.
What were their intentions then? If they won the war, then what of their intentions, then?

Too many people take advantage of Indians and still do to this day, all over the world.

Just a thought

Oh man, what an ignorance in this thread.
There are areas that used to be countries, now we have the treaty of Lisbon and every single country of the EU has lost its sovereignty.
Europe has become a NWO 2.0! Countries within the EU don't have anything to say anymore, it's the EU commission that is in power and they pick their own people and leaders like our fresh and first president!
This is supossed to be the European counterpart of Obama...


And by the way, how come no one has come up with Colonia Digindad, aka Villa Baviera?
Absolutly worth mentioning in this thread.

[edit on 4-3-2010 by Regenstorm]

reply to post by Regenstorm


Already posted on Colonia Dignidad but thanks for mentioning it again:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by 517.101


The article "Bodies from Brazil" focuses on the fascism there linked through the Nazis and CIA -- under the guise of global fascism and repressed homoerotic violence:

Title: Fascist body as political icon - global fascism.
Personal Authors:
Author Affiliation:
Editors: Mangan, J. A.
Document Title: International Journal of the History of Sport

Abstract:

Nine papers address the male body in the iconography of Fascism. Model of masculinity: Mussolini, the new Italian of the Fascist era (G. Gorki, pp.27-61) considers the predominant ideologies in Italy at the beginning of the century and how these ideologies came together in the Fascist Revolution in 1919. Muscular Anschluss: German bodies and Austrian imitators (W. Weber and P. Black, pp.62-81) investigates the ideology of the Nazi movement in its historical context and shows how it reflected gender and class characteristics and drew on Darwinian theory in its politicizing of the body. Fascist political athletes and the body politic: Bulgaria reborn (V. Girginov and P. Bankov, pp.82-103) studies fascism in Bulgaria between 1920 and 1944 and explores the notion of the Superman as a dual metaphor for the political athlete and for the body as a politicum in the form of three interrelated arguments. The iconic symbolism of Niels Bukh: Aryan body culture Danish gymnastics and Nordic tradition (H. Bonde, pp.104-118) looks at the founder of Danish gymnastics schools. Whilst democratic forces often tried to steer the gymnastic movement in a democratic direction as protection against Fascism from the south, the Nazis saw his gymnastics as symbolising the Nordic race, a view which was not alien to Bukh. Fascists Christians!: In the Spanish martial tradition of the Soldier-Monk (T. Gonzalez Aja, pp.119-144) reviews the political phases of Fascism in Spain, both in terms of its ideology and the images which writers, philosophers and artists used to transmit it. Return to manhood: the cult of masculinity and the British Union of Fascists (T. Collins, pp.145-163) explores the importance of the concept of masculinity to the British Union of Fascists in the 1930s, arguing that it was central to both the philosophy and political activities of British fascism. Bodies from Brazil: Fascist aesthetics in a South American setting (L. Da Costa and P. Labriola, pp.163-180) shows that although a preoccupation with sport was common to all Fascist groups, it was less an ideological preoccupation than an aesthetic enterprise reinforcing unity through the theatrical. Militarism, sacrifice and emperor worship: the expendable male body in Fascist Japanese martial culture (J. A. Mangan and T. Komagome, pp.181-204) discusses the ideological indoctrination into a Japanese Fascist militaristic manhood which sacrificed itself willingly for the Emperor, to the introduction of associated military training into the education system. Blue shirts, nationalists and nationalism: Fascism in 1930s China (Fan Hong, pp.205-226) traces the origins of two Chinese Fascist Movements: the Blue Shirts and the New Life Movement, and examines how Fascist ideology with its emphasis on total control, military power and male supremacy and how physical exercise was used to promote male bodies as political metaphors symbolising a strong state.

reply to post by drew hempel


So you're here to take what I said to a brazilian out of context.
I was just saying he was being a little sensitive.


I already commented about this post on a previous page. Go back and read it.
You should get back to me about that, o.k.?
I've already made a contribution to this thread, that you haven't read.
I haven't said anything about your paper in point.
I was addressing a brazilian who was seemingly over sensitive about the subject.
I was just telling him not to worry about it that much. The facts proved they were in brazil.

You're out of line. your responses are miss informed, not your facts. So go back to hiding behind them. (your facts)

I'm not disagreeing with this post, go back and look.
So, I'll stop taking up your good time so you can go back to jumping on people.

You need to chill out too smarty pants.

Occupied America: A Chronology of Nazi Infiltration

1945 — War ends. Nazi war crimes trials are set up. U.S. Army and Navy set up "Operation Overcast" to bring Nazi intelligence experts into American intelligence community. Up to 350 specialists approved by U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff. David Sarnoff states national security dependent on scientific knowledge over the Soviets, urges Nazi scientists be brought to America.

Nazi General Gehlen released from prison, starts anti-Soviet espionage unit with his former Nazi aides; assigned to Camp King where they were designated as a "Historical Study Group." Prior to surrender to Americans, Gehlen buries microfilmed Soviet intelligence in Austrian Alps. Retrieves after capture, turns over to interrogation center. Gens. Siebert, Smith, OSS leader Alan Dulles, seeks control of Gehlen and his documents for their units. Gehlen, 3 assistants sent to Washington for debriefing. Siebert given go ahead on using Nazis for counter intelli-gence, but "under his own authority."

Reasonable to suspect Truman at least knew about arrangement and did nothing. U.S. spends $200 million between 1945-1955 employing four thousand people to revive Gehlen's Nazi spy organization. CIA director Alan Dulles says "He's on our side and that's all that matters." Central Registry of War Crimes and Security suspects (CROWCASS) formed to track down war crimes suspects. CIC enlists Gestapo's Klaus Barbie to help track down Communist intrigue.

Pope Pius XII reversed his policy and started anti-Soviet campaign. Vatican started circulating propaganda about Soviet atrocities against Berliners in Soviet-occupied zone. Vatican reports similar atrocities (torture, rape, mass destruction) in all Soviet held areas. British intelligence reports Soviet anti-Catholic links with Nazis and other Fascists. Cardinal Tisserant, the Vatican's Soviet expert, claimed Soviets would start a new war and was in a favorable position to overrun Europe.

According to British intelligence, Soviets viewed Vatican as reactionary, and a supporter and protector of Hitler and the Nazis. Vatican forms first of the "Ratlines" to evacuate millions of "displaced persons" from all parts of Europe. Among the innocent victims of the war were hidden Nazis, trying to escape prosecution. Some Priests knew who the Nazis were, and actively sought them out. Franz Stangl, Commander of the Treblinka gas chambers was captured by Americans and held near Salzburg, Austria. He was transferred to Glasenbach for two years, when he was turned over to the Austrian government. He "escaped" in May, 1948 when he made his way to Rome to find Bishop Hudal. Hudal's name had been circulated among Nazi prisoners of war as a means of escape. Hudal obtained an International Red Cross passport for Stangl, paid his passage to Syria and had a job waiting for him in a mill. Stangl reported a large network formed by the Vatican to rescue Nazis. Famed Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal, who recaptured Stangl in 1967 believes a sophisticated Vatican network was involved in getting Stangl out of Europe. Further, Stangl told a West German war crimes trial that Nazis had advance notice of Vatican's network.

Other war criminals also reported knowing that if they wanted freedom, get to Rome and look up Hudal. Wiesenthal is convinced that Hudal was responsible for smuggling out Adolph Eichmann, Nazi head of "Jewish Affairs" who assured that Jews were killed at peak efficiency. Eichmann was given new identity, hidden in Genoa, in a Monastery under the protection of Archbishop Siris before being smuggled to South America. The Catholic relief organization Caritas paid all of Eichmann's travel expenses to South America. Wiesenthal says he found "many" war criminals living in Monasteries, equipped with new I.D. supplied by Hudal. Rauff captured by Americans in Italy. His release was obtained by Monsignor Don Guiseppe Bicchierai, Secretary to Milan's Cardinal Schuster. Bicchierai was one of Vatican intermediaries in the secret surrender negotiations. He sheltered Rauff and arranged for him to stay in Convents. It is possible that Rauff's release was obtained by the Italian Communist Party in exchange for Rauff's list of Fascist Party members. Rauff was officially released to the "S Force Verona," an OSS unit working with British/American Special Counter Intelligence team in Italy, headed by James Jesus Angleton. Rauff, meanwhile, boasted of his connections with Allied agents Hussman and Alan Dulles in Switzerland. Rauff made contact with Archbishop Siri and immediately sent to work at the Vatican on establishing a Nazi-smuggling system (Ratlines).

He linked up with Frederico Schwendt, former SS officer, considered by many to be one of the greatest money counterfeiters in history, having forged millions of dollars in bank notes in Germany. Schwendt laundered counterfeit money through various banks, converting it to legitimate Western bank notes. This was the seed money for the first Nazi escape network. The Vatican has never opened its books on refugee assistance. Dossiers on Schwendt and money laundering in U.S. archives remain highly classified.

Meanwhile, the International Red Cross set up to supply identity documents to refugees from the war. Many of the documents were forged or obtained falsely. I.R.C. knew many were false, but did nothing about it. The documents were easily forged, and could even be purchased on the black market. The Vatican apparently was aware of how the Ratlines were funded, and they asked the American government not to delve too deeply into it.

The Ustashi, an emigre group, contacts the Vatican for help in forming either another independent Croatian state or a "Danube-Adriatic Union in which ... Croatia would have its possibility for development; Ustashi met with Papal mission in Salzburg in June to recruit Vatican's help. Stalin sends British message accusing them of making a deal with the Nazis behind his back, causing the Germans to ease up on western front, concentrate on Russians. Churchill later admits giving orders to Lord Montgomery to be careful in collecting German arms, and to keep them so they could easily be given back to the Germans. England had prepared for war with the Soviets, planning to use the defeated German army as an ally. Soviets were, by now, using the Vaticans ratlines, sometimes running the ratlines with double agents. Kim Philby heavily involved.According to British records, a German named Mengele was interrogated in connection with Chemical weapons. Not clear if it was Joseph or his brother Karl.

All Germans with expertise in chemical and biological weapons were turned over to the British. British, according to some circumstantial evidence, made a deal with Mengele for his nerve gas records. Despite his war criminal record, Mengele was allowed to go into the Soviet zone to bring back a truckful of records he buried before war's end. Shortly afterwards, Mengele's brother, father and an associate were released from custody and allowed to resume civilian employment. Mengele went to Italy for emigration to Argentina. According to Omrcanin, Dragonovic processed "thousands" of Nazi scientists for emigration. When the Americans realized how far Soviets had gotten on chemical weapons, they hired German experts of their own. Mengele had been working on the nerve gases Sarin, Tabun, and Soman, later called the G-series by NATO. Same formulae still used by both Soviets and West.

During 1970's, U.S. codebreakers found evidence West German companies were selling Sarin secret formulae to several Arab nations. During 1960's, reports indicated that West Germany was behind proliferation of nuclear weapons. West Germany was afraid NATO might pull out of Europe, leaving West Germany without nuclear defense. According to a former Argentine diplomat, a West German-Argentine Trade Treaty during the '60's was struck, allowing development of Nuclear weapons by using large emigre communities of German scientists in Argentina and South Africa. U.S. Treasury Dept. accused Allen Dulles of laundering funds from the Nazi bank of Hungary into Switzerland. Similar charges leveled against Hans Bernd Giesevius, who had worked for Dulles at OSS, while he was an agent at the Reichsbank. State Dept. took over Treasury's allegations. Investigation dropped.

World Commerce Corporaton formed just after the war, designed to rebuild German-South American trade networks. One of the attorneys is Allen Dulles, whose assistant, Frank Wisner, was State dept. deputy for currency and economic reform in the American zone in West Germany. William Casey, a Navy Lieutenant assigned to the OSS was ordered by mentor Gen. William "Wild Bill" Donovan to set up a spy network inside of Germany, prior to war's end. Casey found Americans didn't work well inside of Germany, so he recruited anti-Nazi Prisoners of War. This is a violation of the Geneva Convention. Casey blew it off, looking at it as a necessity of getting his spying job done.

There is much more to be found here.

Could Germany have been 'playing dead' near the end of the war, making themselves look weaker than they actually were so that they could use this to their advantage post war? In an attempt to slip under the radar and slowly but surely infiltrate America.

reply to post by LiveForever8


That is one excellent link, thanks for posting it. It pretty much goes along with what I have learned from history.

Nice to see all the names put together.

Well some of you seems to be well read in the subject...but it is one question i have thought about from time to time...why did never Hitler even try to invade Sweden...

reply to post by OddTimeSignature


That's easy -- there's an M.I.T. press book documenting Sweden was selling military technology to Hitler -- and making good money off it. Here's another source:

www.suomalaisuudenliitto.fi...

reply to post by drew hempel


Thanks...good link...i will drop down my nose into it...those things we dont learn in school here...

Joseph Farrell is promoting his new book Roswell and the Reich...

Here is the Coast to Coast AM Airing on March 15 see youtube right panel for other parts... www.youtube.com...

also
www.thebyteshow.com...



[edit on 3/20/2010 by onepissedoffsaint]