Gates: Europe's demilitarization has gone too far

Gates: Europe's demilitarization has gone too far

news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON – Europeans' aversion to military force is limiting NATO's ability to fight wars effectively, Defense Secretary Robert Gates said Tuesday.

In remarks to a forum on rewriting the basic mission plan for the NATO alliance, Gates called for far-reaching reforms in an organization that was created 61 years ago as a political and military bulwark against the former Soviet Union and its Red Army.

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Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Therefore, he who wishes peace, should prepare war

Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

The EU is entering a very dangerous era. For NATO must maintain its strength to prevent another world war. It is only our strength that holds the threat of global war at bay.

If we falter, other countries will come upon us like packs of wolves. We must preserve out might to preserve world order. I know idealistic optimism has swept Europe, but it has no bearing on actual reality. The real world is a world of blood and iron, of realpolitik. I know some in Europe already know this. I hope that the general populus soon wakes up and understands this as well. We can't keep the peace without you.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 23/2/10 by MikeboydUS]

Yep, he is right. Europe needs to arm up and man up.
Who knows what the U.S are capable of these days.

Originally posted by pazcat
Yep, he is right. Europe needs to arm up and man up.
Who knows what the U.S are capable of these days.

I'm American, but thats actually true too. Nations can radically change in a short time. Alliances can collapse and lead to all sorts of bad things.

Again to have peace, one must prepare for war.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum

Therefore, he who wishes peace, should prepare war

Publius Flavius Vegetius Renatus

The EU is entering a very dangerous era. For NATO must maintain its strength to prevent another world war. It is only our strength that holds the threat of global war at bay.

If we falter, other countries will come upon us like packs of wolves. We must preserve out might to preserve world order. I know idealistic optimism has swept Europe, but it has no bearing on actual reality. The real world is a world of blood and iron, of realpolitik. I know some in Europe already know this. I hope that the general populus soon wakes up and understands this as well. We can't keep the peace without you.

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 23/2/10 by MikeboydUS]

Why can't peace be made without violence?

I bet if you killed off every politician and government agent, and sent 1 regular citizen from every nation you could make peace.

But peace doesn't make war profiteers any money. So we must have an endless war and just dream of peace.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

Originally posted by pazcat
Yep, he is right. Europe needs to arm up and man up.
Who knows what the U.S are capable of these days.

I'm American, but thats actually true too. Nations can radically change in a short time. Alliances can collapse and lead to all sorts of bad things.

Again to have peace, one must prepare for war.

Typical american drivel. Europeans are not too keen going into other peopels land and occuping it unlike Americans and if we want world peace maybe we should start by getting rid of the American war machine.

reply to post by Equinox99


I wish that was true, but history and humanity beg to differ.

We are an inherently violent species. Even if one generation learns the value peace, usually due to a large war, the next will care less and take advantage of the older generation.

Humans were fighting wars long before it was profitable. We just love to fight. Its always been that way. It always will be.

Its better to understand our human natures and work with them rather than ignore them and pretend we can create heaven on earth.

reply to post by loner007


Wow easy there partner.

Wasn't it the Europeans who colonized the US and killed off the natives?

The start of the European colonization of the Americas is typically dated to 1492, although there was at least one earlier colonization effort. The first known Europeans to reach the Americas were the Vikings (Norse) during the 11th century, who established several colonies in Greenland and one short-lived settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows (51°N) in the area the Norse called Vinland, present day Newfoundland. Settlements in Greenland survived for several centuries, during which time the Greenland Norse and the Inuit people experienced mostly hostile contact. By the end of the 15th century, the Norse Greenland settlements had collapsed[1].**

reply to post by loner007


If we were gone someone would rise up in our place and you should know that. Europe's history is full of that.

The next generation will always forget the lessons of the last.

Originally posted by Equinox99
reply to post by loner007

 

Wow easy there partner.

Wasn't it the Europeans who colonized the US and killed off the natives?

The start of the European colonization of the Americas is typically dated to 1492, although there was at least one earlier colonization effort. The first known Europeans to reach the Americas were the Vikings (Norse) during the 11th century, who established several colonies in Greenland and one short-lived settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows (51°N) in the area the Norse called Vinland, present day Newfoundland. Settlements in Greenland survived for several centuries, during which time the Greenland Norse and the Inuit people experienced mostly hostile contact. By the end of the 15th century, the Norse Greenland settlements had collapsed[1].**

No it wasnt When the 1st English people arrived they had cordial relationships with the natives...It was the Americans who was born in America that wiped out most of the natives because they were ignorant of native americans beliefs......Learn your own damn History....

reply to post by MikeboydUS


See it is that kind of thinking that gets people fighting. We are an evolved species. If fighting was in our genes we would be in the forest with the chimpanzees and gorillas. Instead we have all this technology and history of violence.

As an evolved species, don't you think that this nonsense must stop sometime? I mean I do understand that weapons keep us safe, but they also destroy our lives. There will come a point in our lives where we must end this violence to survive. But in your state of mind we will die off much before that period ever comes.

The European Union needs a military wing, it can not just rely on the United Kingdom and, to some extent, France to deal with all military operations. There are twenty seven members of the European Union.

reply to post by loner007


Americans descended from Europe, therefore making them European. Hence the same tone of color, eyes, and hair.

The population of Old World peoples in the Americas grew steadily, while the number of the indigenous people plummeted. Old World diseases such as smallpox, influenza, bubonic plague and pneumonic plagues devastated the previously isolated Native Americans. Conflict and outright warfare with European newcomers and other American tribes reduced populations and disrupted traditional society. The extent and causes of the decline have long been a subject of academic debate.

Europeans had a hand in their killings. Your history isn't as innocent as you say.

Those that say sometimes you need war to bring about peace are dangerous people!
peace via war means temporary peace and nothing more!

Go EU!!!
NATO what are they good for other than arming their own enemies to help prolong wars?

It's real easy for Gates to say that crap.

He hasn't had 2 major World Wars fought in his country in the last

100 years.

Let's hold the next WW in Middle America.

See if all the War Mongers are so happy then.

reply to post by MikeboydUS

We are an inherently violent species. Even if one generation learns the value peace, usually due to a large war, the next will care less and take advantage of the older generation. Humans were fighting wars long before it was profitable. We just love to fight. Its always been that way. It always will be.

Ah, the Krogan philosophy hard at work! Ultimately, it is true. Humans are a violent species, it's really quite pathetic that we can't get over our primal urges and learn to live and work together.

"How embarrassing to be human." - Kurt Vonnegut

NEXUS

Originally posted by infinite
The European Union needs a military wing, it can not just rely on the United Kingdom and, to some extent, France to deal with all military operations. There are twenty seven members of the European Union.

Tell me, how does the EU rely on the UK for military operations? The last time I checked countries such as my own and Denmark are fighting in Southern Afghanistan too. Your stance exemplifies why a European military wouldn't work. Brits and French are known for their chauvinism and nationalism. They would consider themselves far superior over other EU members, which wouldn't allow an EU military to ever work.

NATO = outdated. The cold war is over.
EU military = doomed to fail

In other words, I don't see the EU becoming a true and equal ally of the US in terms of military capabilities.

The longer we allow he with the most guns makes the rules mentality be the staplemark of civilization, the longer it will take to actually become civil within our civilization.

I think Europe is setting a fine example by powering down and using diplomacy. I am not sure if the world is prepared yet to use our intellect over our bombs, but someone has to start somewhere.

Put the guns down, but dont toss them away yet.

Besides...who is the enemy? globalization is so incredibly intertwined now that a invasion would end up screwing up everyones economy...invaders included.

I think it however should be a global measure that all nations start arming down straight across the board and verified by independent sources....

Imagine a world with no wars, no arms, no force....

reply to post by loner007


Europe is just as bad as America...considering europe and america are two heads of the same beast. In any case, most european countries have a perfectly fine military. Just because countries in europe don't waste obscene amounts of money on it like America hardly means they are incapable.


[edit on 23-2-2010 by Solomons]

Originally posted by loner007


Typical american drivel. Europeans are not too keen going into other peopels land and occuping it unlike Americans and if we want world peace maybe we should start by getting rid of the American war machine.

ok, i'll take that drivel over misguided or sanctimonious denial of reality. learn from history, don't go the way of France and Belgium, rather that of Finland in WW2. if you don't know, it'll make for an interesting read.

===============================================

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Besides...who is the enemy? globalization is so incredibly intertwined now that a invasion would end up screwing up everyones economy...invaders included.

yeah, that's what i loathe so much, high gloss, low substance wishful thinking.

who started WW2 ? Japan and Germany, the two countries that had of course nothing to lose in a war except maybe a total loss of sea trade including but not limited to essential materials.

war is enabled by complacence and you've just posted a showcase example. the current way of using manipulated currencies and loans as a substitute for war will only cause the real version, not out of convenience but necessity and the wish to survive.

[edit on 2010.2.23 by Long Lance]