Have people lost their minds? Violence against the Goverment will get you nowhere.

Well it will get you to one place. 6 feet under in a pine box.

I can't believe what I am reading on ATS lately. People are praising Joe Stack as some sort of patriot hero.

Joe Stack is not a hero. He did no favors for those of us that truely want to stop the ever increasing intrusion into our lives by the tyrannical federal government. Now all of us will be painted with the same brush as this guy. We are all now just like Joe Stack.

The media blitz demonizing the patriot movement an America has already started. They wasted no time.

Here is what I read in the NY Daily News this morning. The day after this happened.
Anti-government lunatic fringe heaps praise on IRS kamikazi
Disgust, disbelief as crazies laud IRS kamikazi
Kamakazi pilot Joe Stack, who crashed plane into Austin building, hailed by anti-government groups

Read more: www.nydailynews.com...

THE FIRES in Austin were still burning yesterday when the Internet lit up with government haters cheering suicide pilot Joe Stack and calling him a hero.

"Finally an American man took a stand against our tyrannical government that no longer follows the Constitution," wrote Emily Walters of Louisville, Ky.

"His sacrifice was for all of us," wrote Texan Tyler Britten.

Crackpots were also praising the dead pilot on Twitter.

"Joe Stack, you are a true American Hero and we need more of you to make a stand," tweeted Greg Lenihan, an engineer in San Diego.

There are always members of a small lunatic fringe ready to embrace a domestic terrorist targeting the feds.

This was a cowardly act of domestic terrorism," he said, and Stack's rant "reflects the steadily increasing flow of 'the government is out to get me' paranoia."

On the other end of the crazy scale, Internet conspiracy theorists - including Austin radio host Alex Jones - were quick yesterday to declare that the plane crash was staged by the government "to demonize the tea party movement."

Notice the language used in the article: "crazies", "crackpots", "lunatic fringe". This is how people will now be labeled if you disagree with the government.

You can't go up against the most powerful people on the planet with violence and expect to win. They are experts in this field. Violence only plays right into their hands. Any violent uprising against the government would be quickly crushed and the majority of the people will support the government stance.

The great Mohandas Gandhi pioneered the idea of resistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience. He knew that India had no chance going up against the mighty British Army with force. Passive resistance, let the violence come from the other side. That is how to get the public on your side. Flying planes into buildings just angers the population and people want no part of that.

How do we resist?
Refuse to comply with unconstitional laws passed by the tyrannical federal government. What can they do when millions of people refuse? They can't lock us all up.

Organize protests on Washington. Camp out in front of the White House and refuse to leave until illegal laws are repealed. Stand your ground when the police start cracking heads when trying to clear the crowd. Some people will get hurt and even arrested. That is the sacrifice people need to be willing to make. When images of the authorities beating up fellow citizens and our children show up on the evening news the public opinion will turn against the government. That is how to get the public on your side. It worked in the 60's during the anti-war movement and it can work today.

Rember, violence is not the way. Peaceful resistance is the answer.
In 1969 when a half a million anti-war protesters showed up in front of the White House, President Nixon realized there was nothing stopping the protesters from storming the White House if they wanted to. It made him rethink the whole Vietnam war. Fast foward a few years to Kent State where troops fired on and killed 4 students during an anti-war protest. That was the end for Nixon. He was forced to withdraw from Vietnam after the outrage of the govenment killing our children.

Peace to all my fellow ATS'rs and God Bless America.

Here's the thing.
Those that praise this suicidal coward ARE A LUNATIC FRINGE!
What else would you call them?
This jerk really helped out his family with his little stunt didn't he?
LOSERS kill themselves all the time, they are the those that are too weak and inferior to make it, not "patriots'.
make ya wonder who exactly is on ATS doesn't it?
Infer what you like "patriots'
what a joke.

I agree, that force is NOT the solution in this matter.

Just look at the Civil Rights movement and the Anti War movement for example, comprised of peaceful protests conveying and contributing to a move to action for their cause by the entire nation.

This resulted in equality for all Americans as well as also later getting American troops out of Vietnam.

PEACE

I wonder why all working americans just not file their taxes this year, could you imagine 30 thousand or so people just not filing? I think this would've sent a message, how in the H*** would they ever be able to audit some 30 thousand people???? Probably the numbers are larger than that, I am just being a little on the low side for sake of argument. Burying them under thousands of un-expected paperwork/audits would've really got the point across. It certainly would have been less detrimental.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by ldyserenity]

I agree that Stack should not be praised.

However, that those who oppose the government are labeled 'lunatics' 'crazies' etc is not a valid reason not to oppose.

These types of words are a war tactic. Quiet weapons for silent wars.

It is no mistake that 'conspiracy theory' now has a negative connotation, when it's actual meaning is nothing negative. It is no mistake that the word 'patriot' is used to describe those who follow in line, while the word terrorist is commonly used for those who question.

Violence is not the first step that should be taken. People should speak with their wallets and their votes.

just don't be surprised when those with the power dont take it lying down, and force violence upon you.

Then, and only then, is it time to fight.

Joe Stack solved one problem...his.

As for the rest of us, we can march, protest, and collectively resist through non-compliance all day long. Doing so will cost us everthing including our freedom and will bring government violence against us. If you believe that any of what the tea party movement and other patriot groups are doing will have any impact on the current agenda, you are deluding yourselves. Violence will come and we will be forced to act accordingly. If you think otherwise, you are further deluding yourselves. They know it, they want it. Further, if you believe that armed resistance, when it becomes justified, can't prevail, then you have drank the kool-aid they have served you.

reply to post by Erasurehead


Wow. I love how rather than looking at how tyrannical the government really has become the people who wrote those articles still have the gall to call anti-government groups "crackpots".

That's just ridiculous.

While I don't think this guy was justified in his actions or a hero or anything I do understand why he was so angry and I think those who label anti-government groups crackpots need to look at the government and then back at themselves and realize just how insane things have gotten in this nation... It doesn't surprise me at all that others are praising this guy... EVERYONE hates the IRS, they're a universal scapegoat.

I agree though that the last thing we need is violence against the government, let's face it they have better weapons then we do and if there was a second American Revolution that ended up in violence we'd get our butts kicked plain and simple...

What we need is a Revolution of knowledge, not violence.

reply to post by Erasurehead


Nor do I condone a revolution.
However,
The colonials tried that and were massacred. The Tea Partiers committed theft, vandalism, and treason against the crown. It just made things worse.
Then came the shot from across the bridge, and the war for our independence began. Not with weak words, not with pacifism, but strong people with guns and the vision of freedom.
Hence.. the language.. in Our Second Amendment!
My thread here is about the same thing.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 19-2-2010 by Violater1]

Just look where protesting and shouting at the government has got us ........
When things dont go your way change your tactics.

Sometimes you do things you dont like but its needed.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by thecrow001]

George Washington was an insurgent. Abraham Lincoln was a domestic terrorist. These people should have used flower power instead of guns. Violence is never the answer. Just get in the cattle car and ride peacefully all the way to Auschwitz.



[edit on 19-2-2010 by Crito]

It does not matter how righteous the cause is, if one person commits an act of violence he will always be perceived as a nutjob. If a million people have a protest rally, they will be perceived as a legitimate protest movement, even if they are a bunch of nutjobs.

I am not defending what this guy did. Based on his letter, it seems like he deliberately sought bad legal advice and is unwilling to accept the consequences of following bad legal advice. He could, however, won more points if he got together with a few thousand like-minded individuals before he acted.

reply to post by OldDragger



Is your name calling all that necessary?
All it does is degrade your post.
I'm sure you can be more cerebral in getting your point across if you put your mind to it.
The poor pilot, his family, those injured in this attack and our country, I pray for them.

The goverrnment is full of the real criminals and murderers yet they have such a good P.R. team that people still think that they have the best interests of the citizens at heart? Cmon people really? They ARE murderers, they are robbing the citizens of this once great country blind and giving it to corporate elitists while smiling and enslaving us both financially and through the laws they pass. If this Joe Stack can get people to finally do something, anything to put a stop to these criminals by polarizing them or whatever, then he is a hero. Get a grip people you are sticking up for the real criminals and it's terrible that anyone innocent got hurt but again if people unite against these people because of him, he's a hero in my book. P.S. real Patriots were against an oppressive government and still are.

reply to post by Erasurehead


While I would have been more Impressed if he would have flown his bomb-laden plane into the White House, Supreme Court, or the Capitol. I do not condone acts of terriorsm against Innocent people, Americans. I dont know to much about Joe Stack, but he may have been unstable. This is America Not some third world (yet) Country. While I do see an eventual Civil War down the road, it will come with the US goes fully bankrupt and Foreign Troops occupy American soil.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
I agree that Stack should not be praised.

However, that those who oppose the government are labeled 'lunatics' 'crazies' etc is not a valid reason not to oppose.

These types of words are a war tactic. Quiet weapons for silent wars.

It is no mistake that 'conspiracy theory' now has a negative connotation, when it's actual meaning is nothing negative. It is no mistake that the word 'patriot' is used to describe those who follow in line, while the word terrorist is commonly used for those who question.

Violence is not the first step that should be taken. People should speak with their wallets and their votes.

just don't be surprised when those with the power dont take it lying down, and force violence upon you.

Then, and only then, is it time to fight.

Yes I agree with your statement. Violence should only be the last resort. If they start killing us for standing up to them then it is time to take up arms and fight.

reply to post by Erasurehead


Hi,

I think that many posters wrongly believe that this is the way as they themselves are too lost or negative to get off their butts and get on with life.

Sure, life hands out crap sometimes but given a change and a bit of drive it also hands out unexpected wonders.

I lost my pension in the UK when the oldest most reputable pension fund collapsed - strangely the Members of Parliament who also had their pensions with the same company had their pensions protected....

At the time I was a little 'annoyed....' but carried on and looked for other sources of future financial security both for my family and myself.

I read the guy's last post... and felt for him, but at the same time, I think he (and his family) lost. And to take the course of action that he did is likely to lead to further repression.

S***t happens, and yes it happens more often these days than before (or perhaps is more obvious because of vehicles like the internet) but it is up to us as individuals to be positive rather than destructive, negative and complacent.

Peace!

reply to post by ldyserenity


There are more than 30 thousand people a year who do not file their taxes or otherwise do improper things with their returns.

For many people, filing a return can be a good thing. Most people pay their fair share of taxes anyway without even trying because they are wage earners who have their pay withheld. By filing a return, these people can take advantage of deductions and credits that are out there and get a refund.

Originally posted by Erasurehead


The great Mohandas Gandhi pioneered the idea of resistance to tyranny through mass civil disobedience.

Because they didn't have weapons to fight with:

"'Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." - Gandhi

Force against the government is NEEDED. No deaths though.

reply to post by SpectreDC


Do you think a bunch of citizens armed with hunting rifles and shotguns would have a chance against government troops with state of the art assault weapons and predator drones?