Musings on Survivalism

As modern individuals we fill our lives with all forms of distractions, because we're afraid that they inherently may lack a meaning or purpose for us, strong enough to inspire us to keep on living. If you ask yourself what really matters in this world or why you are alive and have chosen to go on living, you notice how things like television, cell phones, computers, movies, the internet, drugs/alcohol, college studies, politics etc. suddenly become less relevant. Most people would answer that they love life itself and the people they've grown up with, namely, their family. So why do we spend hours and hours every day on activities that in reality only distract, sometimes even harm the things we really love? I'll argue here here from a primitivist stance: the glory of nature and the fight for survival are the most basic activities in human nature that we need to feel that our lives have purpose and meaning. Without them, we create surrogate activities, in an attempt to replace our "power process" with something materialistic and tangible. Most people in modern society spend their lives on surrogate activities, not on things that actually make them happy in the long run

That's an interesting insight, CC, and probably more pithy than I intended with a survival thread but perspicacious all the same. As a nurse I've been around a lot of people when they die and I've never heard one of them say, "gee, I wish I'd spent more time at the office" or "if only I could've gotten that Iphone I wanted, life would have been worth living".

No, they all say, "tell my daughter I love her" or "tell my father I'm sorry". It's all about family, the connections we make and the people we let into our lives. Being a survivalist is a mindset that acknowledges the innate value of self and others, doesn't hesitate to protect that which treasured or valuable and takes steps to ensure that valuable treasures remain safe. Life itself is the real treasure.

You may have a bag full of gold and diamonds but if you're treading water to stay afloat, you'll let that bag sink to the bottom of the sea just so you have the strength to keep treading water for a while longer. Anything for a few more breaths of precious life. I'm not talking about those who are afraid of dying but those who value life so much that they refuse to let go.

Thank you for your considered response CC.

@mamabeth
There's nothing "hippy" about this earth moma, either. I like flowers but I'm just as likely to make them into fritters for breakfast as I am to make them into decorative arrangements for the breakfast table. Keep your powder dry, sister.

One thing you never do is use vehicles to get from place to place... you use a bike in either back roads or on local trails. Or you travel through the sewage systems.

Good point. Although, if you're going for stealth, shoe-leather express may be the more discreet mode of travel. Guess it would depend on where you're traveling and why. A bike would certainly get you there faster but it also requires more equipment to maintain so you'd probably have to have a pannier to keep all the tools and spare parts for the bike. Good piece of equipment to have if you can.

What i have learned about survival is 90% is what you know not what gear you have.

I have had trucks break down in the middle of the Mojave desert in the summer and had to walk out and been stuck in the high Sierras in snow and had to free my truck to get out. but if i had to walk out i could have.

The biggest part of survival is not what you have when it happens but the mind set to do a check list in your mind of WHAT IF and take the basics along to take care if yourself. and know how to "make do" with what you can build or scrounge.

Case in point.
If your car or truck gets stuck in the snow and you have to walk out.
but you do not have the proper shoes to keep you feet warm.

All you have to do is take the seat cover off the seat of you vehicle and take the foam padding out and wrap you feet then take the seat cover and wrap over the foam.
As a EX firefighter/EMT i have even seen someone take the hubcaps from there car and use them as snow shoes to walk out.

I've spent a hell of a lot of time in the mountains around here. It is quite a survivable place should things go south. Plentiful fishing, plenty of natural shelter, plenty of game(big and small), good water sources.

The draw backs are:

It's the mountains and like the mountains in a high desert it can get extremely cold, it is difficult to grow things unless you're in a low lying valley. Some of the best areas are beyond Sun Valley, which hosts the most ex-cons per-capita than any other place in the US. It's also the second biggest trailer park in the world...So you do the math.


This is really a great thread with a dose of reality you don't often see. Being a trained individual my self I know what I am capable of, but I also know that those around me haven't had the education I've had and may very well falter. It is important to note that no amount of training will stop a branch from snapping and sending you to your death. Survival is not guaranteed at all, even less so if you're trying to be like Bear Grylls.

Luckily I'm armed, I'm trained, supplied enough to get me started in the environment I'd be dealing with, and equipped with the knowledge to effectively use the tools at my disposal, and improvise others. I fully expect to be a crutch for others(my significant other in particular) until I can get them trained and comfortable with their skills which will take time.

I'd say the number one key to survival is to be VERY PATIENT. Without patience you're dead. If you can't take the time to stop and think about what you're going to do in a chaotic situation you're not going to fair too well. Once you've survived the initial impact of the situation you will have at least a few minutes to figure out your next few moves-they should be objective based, preferably pre-planned, and your path there should be quick and simple.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by projectvxn]

[edit on 16-2-2010 by projectvxn]

This was a long but good post. I'm a survivalist, or I at least like to believe I am. I've spent a lot of my life in the wilderness, dropped out of public school to take up home schooling in 9th grade, which I would take with me in the local forests where I would study. I may have been trespassing, but laws AND people were more lax then and a teen in the woods was no big deal. I could go by foot, through swamp, thicket, forest, etc, to one of several places I've deemed to be safe zones. Safe zones to me are regions where local population is scarce, and some of which on foot would probably take me and those I may or may not bring with, a few weeks to reach. I've studied my regions well and have already looked at how to reach my safe zones with least contact. Yet I am well prepared to defend myself be it hand to hand or use of a fire-arm, and can easily remedy primitive weapons including bows from my surroundings. I mastered temporary bush shelters when I was a child, and have the mind for building a permanent structure once the safe is reached. However, if say the humanity is able to maintain air surveillance then I would stay on the move until they are no longer seen. I can gather food for multiple people assuming they are doing one of the other critical things to the group’s survival. I can catch game several ways, I can catch fish several ways, I know what mushrooms to eat and not eat, I know plants to eat and not eat, I know what insects to eat and not eat, I know how to garden, I know how to harvest honey, make sugar, yeast, bread, soap, candles, etc... my list could go on for quite some time. Would I attempt to return to society if I knew the chaos has ended... probably not...why leave the little heaven I've created? I would take in people, but not without extreme observation and profiling, and those not worth taking in due to risks, would be terminated due to other risks, like telling some one else where you are located. I know the time is coming, I can feel it, I was born for it, it is my purpose to witness the events that will unfold, tis why I returned. Yes, I did graduate (3.8), and I am a computer nerd as much as I am a nature nerd, so if the chaos happens I have a plan, and if it doesn't happen I have a plan. My survival plan didn't cost me a dime, just a lot of my time learning and practicing that which I can. I refuse to hide in a bunker, for I want to be able to see what's coming, and I'd rather die fast then be buried in my own tomb. I know of course I may run into a few unforeseen problems, but I'm positive I could overcome them, and if not then the Gods decided it was my time. All plans can go bad, there are many outcomes, and all you can do is prepare yourself mentally. Acquire the intelligence and wisdom of nature, it's beneficial and fun. Do it while you can, for no one can see what is at the bottom of this downward spiral, but we can all agree/feel/sense that we are falling.
~Good Journeys~

@anned
"What i have learned about survival is 90% is what you know not what gear you have.
The biggest part of survival is not what you have when it happens but the mind set to do a check list in your mind of WHAT IF and take the basics along to take care if yourself. and know how to "make do" with what you can build or scrounge."

Agreed. Equipment can't fix a people problem. Yes it's nice to have the latest, greatest, bestest (I know it's not a word) gadget in your BOB but if you don't have knowledge or skills in how to use it properly, it's not much help to you. I've seen people who were mediocre in their shooting skills want to get a high-power scope to compensate for their lack of skills. Doesn't work. Depending on ANY equipment other than your brain is fool-hardy. Your "stuff" can be stolen, broken, lost, etc. but your knowledge, skills and training are yours for life.


@projectv

Would that there were more like you that would train the rest of us. There are a few people that would love the training and skills but find it hard to get. I've spent a lifetime learning what little I know and hope to keep learning until the day I die. Having the right mind-set is paramount to survival.

@forestforager

Sounds like you're already a survivor. Most of the "survivors" I know expect to BECOME survivors when shtf rather than taking a pro-active stance and learning to become survivors NOW so that when shtf they're ready, not trying to get ready. Old habits die hard and if it's your habit to lounge on the couch all day eating pretzels and drinking swill, a shtf scenario is going to be very hard on you. I've been teaching my kids skills since they were babies. They're grown now and they STILL try to sneak up on me stealthily without me knowing they're there. LOL. When we go for walks and see a plant we don't recognize we'll dig it up, take it home for identification and learn it's uses. Even my grandkids love learning this stuff. And like you said, if it's never needed, it's still good to know and fun to learn and, more than likely, survival skills WILL be needed at some point in everybody's life. It doesn't have to be Armageddon to be a survival situation. Everybody has cars break down and it's not always in ideal weather for walking.

Thanks to all for your posts. Great contributions!

I have to thank the original poster greatly for the words you've given.
You helped further lemme know, while I know decently of navigating the urban jungle, I'm certainly a noob, in terms of survival minus even the basic urban amenities.

If I can say anything, ill say that I've personally questioned everything that seemed odd in the world, I was that "What if...?" Kid that most parents dread hearing questions from during long road trips in the 80's. And that lead to my adult life in reference to what we are now seeing.

These are strange times we are seeing today and as a city boy, I'm

#1: thankful I had the mind to ask so many questions, which helped me slightly figure out where we are headed.

#2: tripping in terms of how much I wanted to know and learn(respective to true survival, as you describe) and how little time to effectively learn how to cope before SHTF.

Wish I woke up earlier.....truly, vs 29yo, which was 3yrs ago. Now I'm playing a serious game of CATCH UP!

I have to thank the original poster greatly for the words you've given.
You helped further lemme know, while I know decently of navigating the urban jungle, I'm certainly a noob, in terms of survival minus even the basic urban amenities.

If I can say anything, ill say that I've personally questioned everything that seemed odd in the world, I was that "What if...?" Kid that most parents dread hearing questions from during long road trips in the 80's. And that lead to my adult life in reference to what we are now seeing.

These are strange times we are seeing today and as a city boy, I'm

#1: thankful I had the mind to ask so many questions, which helped me slightly figure out where we are headed.

#2: tripping in terms of how much I wanted to know and learn(respective to true survival, as you describe) and how little time to effectively learn how to cope before SHTF.

Wish I woke up earlier.....truly, vs 29yo, which was 3yrs ago. Now I'm playing a serious game of CATCH UP!

reply to post by ahmonrarh


Better late than never, ahmonrarh. Imagine the surprise and confusion from the people that NEVER wake up?! Now is the time to seriously consider a plan for yourself and family. Some choose to bug in, others choose to bug out.

Only you know what is best for you. Consider scenarios, what could happen in each, what you hope to achieve and how best to achieve it. Make a plan and work towards those goals. It IS do-able.

What you believe (about any subject) will determine how you respond or re-act. If you truly believe that you've only got 2 weeks to live, you will live and plan differently than if you believe you have another 80 years. If you truly believe that the S is about to HTF you will live differently than if you believe things will be stable for another 10 years.

Our beliefs determine our actions. I've talked to and met a lot of so-called survivalists that don't live according to their stated beliefs. They are not really survivalists as far as I'm concerned.

Just like all the atheists on this board and elsewhere complaining that Christians don't walk their talk have a legitimate complaint. If you truly believe something, not just give it an intellectual nod, then your daily actions will reflect that belief.

Those calling themselves survivalists or preppers will be known by the ACTIONS they take, not by the words they spew.

You still have time. The wheels haven't come completely off yet. They're wobbling badly but there's still time to prepare. Best of luck in all your endeavors.

What i have learned about survival is 90% is what you know not what gear you have.

I think survival is more of what you are willing to do. Knowing helps but it is much more importiant that you are willing to do the things you know about.

Thank you so much to the original poster. I completely agree that survival is preparation of the mind foremost. Going through the scenario's in your mind, planning ahead for bug in or bug out, deciding now who to discuss survival plans with.

I am a single mother of one teenage daughter. My family is scattered (or deceased r.i.p. dad). My boyfriend is one of the personality types described at the start of your post that thinks that as long as he has ammunition and a lot of guns - that he has prepared. He also has a lot of ties to friends and family that live their lives in either a drunken state of mind or a materialistic state of mind. Living only for today. Of course, my fear is that all of my preparation (both materially, emotionally and knowledge) will be hindered in an emergency because of his lack of the understanding of keeping this quiet. I am not preparing for helping others survive - I am thinking about myself, my daughter and him. Supporting others that are close to us will hinder my family survival. Hope that didn't sound cold, but this is one of my worries.

This is my first post and have actually just stumbled upon abovetopsecret website this morning. I have been reading and planning now for just a few months. Your posting has opened my eyes that survival is not prepartion but is a state of mind and a way of living. I look forward to following this thread for more information and tips. Thank you.

reply to post by Loreo


Welcome to ATS, Loreo. I'm honored that you chose to introduce yourself in my thread. As someone who has expressed an interest in survival topics, you'll find much knowledge from some experienced people on this board. Feel free to ask questions. If you're looking for anything specific, we probably have someone that can point you in the right direction.

I agree that you have to consider you and yours first. There are a lot of entitlement minded people in the world today who will think it their right to rob you blind in a sit x and kill you for the audacity of trying to protect what you worked for. Guns may be helpful in a few situations but they're not the answer to all survival questions. They're just another tool in the toolkit.

You also have to decide if the people you chose to let into your group are the type that will needlessly endanger your life. I know many basically decent people that I like immensely but I wouldn't consider them an asset in any kind of crisis scenario. In fact, I wouldn't want them anywhere around.

Quite an interesting thread. Not what I was expecting when I first began to read. Well done!!

I guess I am Flannel Dad who lives in the burbs and camps, shoots, and mt. bikes whenever time allows. Rarely!

I have taken the time to build up an emergency stock of supplies in the event of any type of disaster so that we will be able to stay in our home for as long as possible.

Traveling with the wife and twin 3 1/2 year olds is never easy when we are prepared so, I can't imagine bugging out to nowhere right away. I would rather be here than stuck on the side of the road with 3 screaming females.

I know my area very well. I have studied local maps and grew up in the area. I also live close to a large deer infested county park system and a national park as well. If I need to venture out for short stints, I will be able to do so easily on foot or Mt. Bike.

Now, if I could only get the wife to actually want to learn how to shoot in order to defend the home if needed.


Suburban survival! Know which neighbors are prepared and which are clueless. I'll tell the clueless ones to head for the hills.

reply to post by jibeho


Ahahahaha! Three screaming females by the side of the road. You poor man. The upside is that they'd probably run off any bears that might want to attack.

Not all women (or men for that matter) are comfortable with firearms. If she's more the domestic goddess type then she might be interested in learning about wild edibles or how to make basic supplies without running to the grocery store (especially if she sees the financial benefit of saving money for the household-hint, hint).

Sounds like you're in a good location. The clueless neighbors probably won't be too interested in the hills. No freebies to mooch and no hosts on which to practice their parasite skills. Afraid you're just stuck with them.

Don't discount moma's ability or willingness to protect the family. Any moma bear will serve as an example of that innate ferocity. Of course, training is always preferred but inborn reflexes are pretty handy too.

Most people that are gainfully employed and/or have kids don't have a lot of time, money (or energy) for full time preparations and training. We all do what we can do but as we see the world situation unspooling on the nightly news, it behooves us all to kick it up a notch.

Star for most of the posters in here.

Flag for the thread too.

I agree with most of what has been said in here, and all of what the OP said.

My 5 main points on survival is this: ( there is more to be sure )

1) Knowledge - while you may memorize a lot you will forget something,
keep a backup of something like the SAS survival guide in a water
proof container on you or cached at a location not likely to picked
as a camp site by someone else, ie. inhospitable, counter-comfort.
A few good books cached water proof in range, but not in an appealing
location can help you refresh your memory if you forget something.
A double cache like this might even be in order.
To be honest I'd say most ppl will find they need a few good
books to go to the distance.

2) Self Defense - comes in many forms, from unarmed, to low tech,
to firearms of various types. If violence can be avoided and you
can hide instead it is usually best long term. Because if one person
goes missing others in a larger group may come looking for him.
Some term this runaway to fight another day. Know how to defend
yourself but make it the last choice not the first choice unless you
are a warrior, but then you are not really a survivalist.
A ghillie may do more to keep you alive than a gun.
Guns have a way of telling ppl a mile away someone has
something worth fighting for over yonder.
Body armor is heavy, but if you think you can stash some
and get it on fast enough to make a difference then it may
save your life as well, some good prices on Ebay, triple check
what you are getting thou as some of it is junk and then
test it once you get it as it might be a cheap copy.

3) Water - carrying a lot of water out is not the point, have lots of
different ways to get water from the environment. Some examples
are SODIS as mentioned on wikipedia, slow sand filter, active charcoal,
boiling water by fire or by low tech solar oven, solar still, plant water,
and in the short to mid term a water filter drinking bottle or longer
term big berkey filer and two 5 gal buckets, digging a well is an option
but as the OP has said that sure sounds like you are putting down roots.

4) Food - As the OP said it is best to know anything that is edible
even that which is not so appealing as insects. I know a few insects
I can eat, not near as many as the OP. I may be deluding myself
in thinking there should be enough wild edibles to keep me alive,
but of course with millions of others out there its a fair guess some
of them know too. The fish and game will go fast if the shelves at
wal-mart go empty. I carry a seed pack with me, and some are not
conventionally considered food so they will look like weeds to most.
Once all the store food, fish, and wild game is gone, it is going to
get ugly. At this time you want to hide and show no signs of life,
aka no fire, no light, and have something like a ghillie suit.
I went dual use and got a small light yet strong net hammock
as the basis for mine. There will be a lot of mental anguish seeing
and hearing ppl cry and die in the night as they slowly starve to
death, a lot of kind hearted individuals will want to help, and others
will do things I do not even want to think about.

5) Shelter - A tarp and net hammock, one man tent, or similar i
s a good idea, but for brutal hot and cold weather you
might take another course.
Many good makeshift shelters out there, I suggest
looking for way to make a bermed earth or underground one,
but not with too much labor. Why I think bermed earth, cob,
or something like it is a good idea is that having a fire has
pretty good odds of making you stick out like a sore thumb.
When it is cold enough to kill outside 3 feet down it is 59 degrees,
and when it is 117 in the shade outside same deal.
Use lot of natural plant matter near it to block it from view,
or thorn vines to make it look uncomfortable
and have their subconscious put them on the path of least resistance.
Consider building a primary shelter and a backup shelter
in case the primary is approached by a large group.
Good odds on higher foot traffic being near a water or food source,
don't get comfy and back off a bit from them.
Also the OP saying not to leave obvious trails is a good idea.
It may also be a good idea to stay off obvious trails as some
ppl may leave nasty surprises on them for the unwary.

Like I said at the start, there is a lot more to survival, these are
just some key points off the top of my head.

There is a ton of information out there from "nuclear survival skills"
to brain tanning of animal hides.

You might memorize it all, but if you are like me you forget things
from time to time, so have a hard copy waterproof backup cached
in at least one location or better yet more than one.

They teach special forces caching for a good reason, it works.

Have other caches for other items in case you are robbed, mugged,
drop it in a river or lake, etc etc.

The phrase " _ _ it happens" comes to mind.

If you can have long shelf life food caches that is good too, but at some
point it could run out and you are down to hunting, fishing, gathering
or growing it. I don't list taking it from others as a sustainable way.

Those who take that path will eventually find some food with poison in it.

You heard that right, the so called strong will come and rob ppl of their
food and at some point they may get food with an extra "gift" in it.

If it is slow acting enough it could undo a large group of raiders.

A smart herbalist who is pretty upset could wipe out a lot of "bad guys"
with the right plant matter that might have nothing more than
a slight hint of almonds to it.

I am not advocating that, I am just saying to the strong careful who
you upset out there, even an old maid can set this in motion.

Things to keep in mind if things turn very dark in the future.

Also as others all over the world of survival have said and
as recommended by survival blog.

"No man is an island"

Find or build a small group of ppl you think are worth their salt
and you trust them with your life.

That may sound nary impossible to do, but in dark days a stalwart
friend is worth more than the gold everyone is chasing.

Good Luck to you all !



[edit on 29-7-2010 by Ex_MislTech]

Hey, whitewave...where were you when I was looking for a wife? Wow, women like you do it for me. So much so, I found one that loved me and married her....

Anyway, I am reading your thread while I take a water break from building chicken tractors... pretty hot here in NC, today.

I guess we fall into the do it yourselfers/survivalists... way out in the country, self sufficient, getting ready to trade a young pig for some laying hens and have to fix some tractors for them. We are putting stuff away for winter, and soon it will be time to finish splitting the logs I felled last spring for firewood...and yes we do sell it.

If things go bad, we'll just stay here on the farm.... everything is here, our family can find us...we have plenty of room. And we have a good, defensible position...on a hill..surrounded by swamp on 3 sides, a lake across the road, rolling hills and an abandoned mine to our rear... and no neighbors for a few miles...6 miles to the nearest country store.

I do break a few of your rules, being a rebel...I can't help but fly my flags and , if asked, I do tell people what I think. I guess it's my Irish and Southern blood... kinda' deep fried BraveHeart.

WOW. Your a woman that has put a lot of thought into it...
Your down fall is bing an "okie" oh well I guess there is no perfect woman...

Anyway, nice post. I grew up a few hundreb miles north of you in cornhusker country and agree with mast all that you said.

Keep up the good posts...thanks

reply to post by saltdog

Anyway, nice post. I grew up a few hundreb miles north of you in cornhusker country and agree with mast all that you said.

I think the two words in bold gave away your origins.

:wink:

From another Okie !