'Birther' Movement Rears Head in Nashville

reply to post by GovtFlu

Try showing the next officer that pulls you over a "certification of license to drive" rather than a "drivers license".. if the officer objects, and detains you to verify your claim... call the officer a crazy "birther" for having the temerity to not take your word.

Ok, now did the state give you a "certification of licence to drive?" if they did, then sure, tell the officer to go jump in a lake if he doesn't like it, or take it up with the issuing state agency.

Actually, Minnesota gives you a certification of license to drive when you get a new license or renew. It is a yellow paper. It is all you have till your license or id card shows up in the mail.

There isn't a cop (or a bar) in the state who will accept it because it isn't the drivers license.

So OBAMA, show the people what they are asking for (the actual documents, not the short form that can be issued on request for children born elsewhere... check the law in HI). Then the issue will be settled.

Originally posted by YourPopRock
If you are for the 'birther' argument or against the 'birther' argument, why wouldn't you want final concrete evidence brought out... ratified by a court... and a decision (final) made on the topic.

I am not a birther, but I'm not against the movement. I just think they're delusional hypocrites.

As far as final concrete evidence, I would be fine with seeing it come out. I have no problem with that at all. What I have a problem with is that evidence has been released. And the birthers found it to be 'fraudulent'. ANYTHING that comes out to confirm his birthplace in Hawaii, even from the Supreme Court, is going to be found 'fraudulent' because the birthers want so badly for Obama not to be president. This whole controversy isn't about people wanting to uphold the Constitution. It's about hatred of Obama and wanting him out of office by any means possible.

I see these claims in hundreds of places:

"He was either born in Kenya or was a citizen of Kenya or a citizen of Indonesia, Great Britain or even Pakistan, but he's NOT American."

Their focus is not on proving what he IS, it's on proving what he ISN'T. They don't care WHAT piece of evidence makes him ineligible, just so SOMETHING does. Because they want him OUT.

When the various "Kenyan birth certificates" came into the media, the birthers latched onto them as if they were the holy grail! They wanted to believe it SO badly that they asked NO questions. There were no "Polariks" coming out with magnified views of the borders and assumptions about what they should look like. No. They were accepted as fact from a shaky internet video or picture because they met with the birther agenda.

This was so transparent. These people aren't looking for the truth. They're looking for their holy grail.

I'm beginning to see that the Tea Party Movement isn't so much an organization based on the Constitution as a great big Obama hate group branch of the Republican Party. Where were they when GW Bush was stomping all over the Constitution? They had their noses so far up his ass they couldn't see straight.

I will never believe that any official document, statement or claim by even the highest courts in the land will quell the hatred and mission of the birthers. Because while they SAY their concern is Constitutional, their actions contradict their words.

Secondly, I don't like the bullying that is taking place. Obama has done as much and more than ANY other president to prove his eligibility. He shouldn't have to do even more. Why should he have to go beyond what ANY other president has ever done to prove that he is who he says he is and was born where he claims? Why?

People say they dread the day when someone can demand our "papers" for proof that we're allowed to be in a certain place... They don't want the invasion of privacy. Yet this is exactly what they're doing. They are hypocrites.

Finally, if Obama was not eligible to be in the White House, he wouldn't be. There are so many who have hated him from the beginning, that if there was a shred of evidence anywhere, they would have brought it to senior Republican leadership and Obama would be OUT.

It's only common sense. But then, neither the birthers nor the TPM have shown that they have an abundance of that.

So, let them waste their money, time and effort and spin their wheels for his entire presidency. It serves them right. It's not my concern. It's a totally futile cause.

[edit on 7-2-2010 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by GovtFlu

 

Try showing the next officer that pulls you over a "certification of license to drive" rather than a "drivers license".. if the officer objects, and detains you to verify your claim... call the officer a crazy "birther" for having the temerity to not take your word.

Ok, now did the state give you a "certification of licence to drive?" if they did, then sure, tell the officer to go jump in a lake if he doesn't like it, or take it up with the issuing state agency.

lol you go ahead and say that, then use your 1 call to LMK how it worked out for ya.

Even if it was from the state, and appears to be 100% valid... guess what? the officer still won't take your word that your documents are authentic and or valid.

S/he will go to their MDT and verify it through whats called a JDIC (Justice Data Interface Controller). If you dont think thats SOP, listen to LAPD 484.9626 sometime, listen for the dozens of "Cal op check by numbers" the officers request..

Why is it important to verify what appear to be valid state issued documents?.. because people lie & forge, status changes, licenses get suspended.. very little is what it seems at face value... the only way to be sure, is to verify it.

How do you know the information on the certification reflects the information on the certificate? you don't, because you have never seen the certificate, nobody has, we're being asked to believe no mistakes were made, all is well, the data was flawlessly transferred from the certificate to the certification because the amazing US govt is always honest, sincere, transparent, never lies, and is no way controlled by corrupt political parties that serve oligarch masters... who would have a direct interest in having their smooth talking puppet in office to douche the bush smell off the united states.

The whole "birther" title is fake as well, manufactured for your use... the oligarchs thank you for remembering.

There are people who believe obama, and there are people who don't... it really is that simple... but they cant brainwashingly repeat over and over that we think he's a "liar" or "lying".. too many sheep would associate liar & obama... so viola!, a goofy word with a negative connotation is conjured up to divide the believers from the non believers, while making the non believers look nutty... this tactic is older than dirt and as an ATS regular you should have seen this from a mile away.

You know what else I cant fathom about all the "believers", hasn't this guy obfuscated, lied and broken enough promises to lose all credibility yet? cant you see the fakeness oozing from his every pour?, lost count of his lies, or noticed the low budget acting skills yet?

Really? there are people out there who still believe this guy? Even worse is the believers trust the establishment enough to accept a govt print-out at face value because they saw it on the internet!! .. because everything on the internet is true!!...lmao...

It has become painfully obvious to even obama girl her hero is a fraud, yet somehow I'm the 'crazy' one for not believing him? how does that work exactly? how are people who believe a known liar and a corrupt lying govt more sane?

The believers must have be some kinda fluoride addicts who get in line 3x for the flu shot because, frankly, anyone who takes the party leaders word about anything because they saw pictures on the internet.. needs a lot more help than "turthers", "birthers", "teabaggers" and aluminum-foil deflector beanie wearers COMBINED.

However, I don't want any of you believers to change your minds.. the more of you that board the train to FEMA Club Fed, the less traffic for me... so please, trust the govt, THEY LOVE YOU.. and above all else: believe everything the elite say, especially if they "prove it" by posting pics on the internet... and for the record, you're more than welcome to my flu shot, so don't feel guilty about getting an extra.. just in case (wink).

Oh yea, when the govt tells you to hand in your guns because they are too dangerous, I promise (like obama), if you just give them to me, I'll do it for you, ok? AND I'll give you a state issued certification (from Adobe) as a receipt.

(apologize for the rant, feel free to re-locate to the proper forum)

I personally think the 'anti-birthers' are afraid of what would come out of a legitimate investigation of Obama's eligibility to hold the office of POTUS. I have a feeling not just Obama, but the DNC, who validated his eligibility, would be implicated and found guilty of un-Constitutional fraud.

[edit on 2/7/10 by Ferris.Bueller.II]

Originally posted by GovtFlu
How do you know the information on the certification reflects the information on the certificate? you don't, because you have never seen the certificate, nobody has...

Actually someone has. Fukino has. And she released statements saying that she had seen and verified it.

Statement #1
Statement #2

That wasn't good enough for people. They want to see it themselves and think they have a right to. They have no such right. No matter who would see it and report to the citizens of the US, the birthers would carry on their misguided mission, because it's all they have.

we're being asked to believe no mistakes were made, all is well, the data was flawlessly transferred from the certificate to the certification ...

Actually the information on the Certification is electronically derived directly from the original Certificate. So it would be a computer that made a mistake, if a mistake were made, not a person.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
... hasn't this guy obfuscated, lied and broken enough promises to lose all credibility yet?

You are confusing 2 issues. His birthplace and his politics. Just because someone isn't on the birther bandwagon, doesn't mean they are Obama followers. I tried to make this point earlier. How many promises he's broken and how many lies and obfuscations he's made shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not he's a natural born citizen.

Here's the conversation:

Obama was born in Kenya!

You have no proof of that statement. His birth certificate has been posted online and Fukino has made statements that he was born in Hawaii.

It's a fake! And Fukino is lying!

Where's your evidence?

Well, he's a liar and a fake! He's a commie socialist!

What does that have to do with his place of birth?

Nothing, but he needs to leave the white house because he wasn't born in America!

Actually, a computer wouldn't have made the mistake. Back when Obama was born, it wasn't computers making these documents, it was a typewriter.

Anything printed since would be from a computer which had utilized human data entry. But remember, everything you see on the computer is true, right?

reply to post by YourPopRock

Here is what gets me... If you are for the 'birther' argument or against the 'birther' argument, why wouldn't you want final concrete evidence brought out... ratified by a court... and a decision (final) made on the topic.

You are arguing from a false premise.

"Final concrete evidence" has been published. You are just refusing to remove your blindfold, sticking fingers in your ears and yelling 'LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA'.

And courts have NO jurisdiction in the matter. Zero. None. Nada.

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by YourPopRock

 

Here is what gets me... If you are for the 'birther' argument or against the 'birther' argument, why wouldn't you want final concrete evidence brought out... ratified by a court... and a decision (final) made on the topic.

You are arguing from a false premise.

"Final concrete evidence" has been published. You are just refusing to remove your blindfold, sticking fingers in your ears and yelling 'LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA'.

And courts have NO jurisdiction in the matter. Zero. None. Nada.

Actually, if you knew diddley about politics, you would know that the Supreme Court can determine the outcome of an election as well as eligibility.

So much for my false premise...

reply to post by YourPopRock

Both sides should decide on someone that can be an impartial judge (Switzerland?) and agree to stand by their decision.

What does Switzerland have to do with this?

I thought that, by implication, the "Doubters", were trying to uphold the Constitution of the United States. Where does it say that Switzerland has any kind of jurisdiction whatsoever over American civic procedures?

Are you a proponent of One World Government? What is your problem?

reply to post by YourPopRock

Actually, if you knew diddley about politics, you would know that the Supreme Court can determine the outcome of an election as well as eligibility. So much for my false premise...

So much for what you know. The two are not related, and SCOTUS didn't determine the outcome of the election, that was Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris that did that.

Though SCOTUS did, IMO, make a bad decision in this case, it was probably the only one they could have made given the delay tactics employed by the Florida State Government. It is not a precedent setting ruling, merely an administrative one to prevent a Constitutional crisis.

Bo Diddley was a great artist.

Originally posted by YourPopRock
Actually, a computer wouldn't have made the mistake. Back when Obama was born, it wasn't computers making these documents, it was a typewriter.

The date on the certification is 2007. I think they had computers then. The Certification was printed out from the information contained on the original birth certificate, which Fukino has seen and verified and made a sworn statement to that effect. Try to string those thoughts together and you'll see that the information on the Certification is valid. Or you'll continue to do what you're doing. Forever. Which is fine with me.

Interesting article here

comments.americanthinker.com...


The Comments section is interesting and informative, also

And so Obama's birth remains a mystery a year after his inauguration. The mainstream media, meanwhile, have paid more attention to the origins of Trig Palin than to those of the president, and they have spent their excess energy mocking those who do the reporting they once did.

If it's intended he should be only a one-term president, they can afford to bluff it out with regard to his records

If they decide to run him for second term however, the lies and secrecy are going to bite them badly at the polls

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by GovtFlu
How do you know the information on the certification reflects the information on the certificate? you don't, because you have never seen the certificate, nobody has...

Actually someone has. Fukino has. And she released statements saying that she had seen and verified it.

Statement #1
Statement #2

That wasn't good enough for people. They want to see it themselves and think they have a right to. They have no such right. No matter who would see it and report to the citizens of the US, the birthers would carry on their misguided mission, because it's all they have.

we're being asked to believe no mistakes were made, all is well, the data was flawlessly transferred from the certificate to the certification ...

Actually the information on the Certification is electronically derived directly from the original Certificate. So it would be a computer that made a mistake, if a mistake were made, not a person.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
... hasn't this guy obfuscated, lied and broken enough promises to lose all credibility yet?

You are confusing 2 issues. His birthplace and his politics. Just because someone isn't on the birther bandwagon, doesn't mean they are Obama followers. I tried to make this point earlier. How many promises he's broken and how many lies and obfuscations he's made shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not he's a natural born citizen.

Here's the conversation:

Obama was born in Kenya!

You have no proof of that statement. His birth certificate has been posted online and Fukino has made statements that he was born in Hawaii.

It's a fake! And Fukino is lying!

Where's your evidence?

Well, he's a liar and a fake! He's a commie socialist!

What does that have to do with his place of birth?

Nothing, but he needs to leave the white house because he wasn't born in America!

You were there when Fukino, whoever that person is, reviewed the long form?.. no, you are choosing to believe a govt employee stranger with a career interest in maintaining the status quo.

Was Fukino looking at a forgery? or at anything at all?.. believers trust the govt when it claims "all is well", given the establishments track record on truth telling thats nutty.

It's not about his politics or birthplace, it's all about his honesty, the govts credibility and the chronic liars known as the GOP & DNC who are subservient to shadowy overlord oligarch masters ... it's their job as a team to distort and run hustle on the US populace to further their agendas of war & control... trusting these people is more insane than asking them to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.

You are welcome to believe an establishment of known liars based on internet pics and stories, I believe what I see, not what they tell me.

If obama was on a stage, whipped out his junk and started urinating his initials on the crowd.. then said "All is well, it's just amber rain".. the believers would applaud and breathe a sigh of relief... I'll be the one pointing out its actually piss.

BTW I don't know where the guy was born.. keyna, cancun, colorado.. who knows.. or what his name is, he used to go by barry stereo, soetoro, or somesh#, barack obama appears to be a moniker or stage name.. until we see what is printed on his alleged long form certificate.. not even the mans name is certain... altering his identity is another reason to not accept his word about anything at face value.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Noromyxo

 

How about the 700 billion + bailout ?
Was that not taking from the poor and giving to the rich ?

Do you mean TARP? The money given to banks because they were too big to fail? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that Obama was sworn in as POTUS until January 20, 2009. Whereas TARP, was signed into law by Bush on October 3, 2008.

Revisionist history? Seeing Commies around every corner? Little paranoid?

The banker bailout had two rounds and the second round was all Obama's doing.

online.wsj.com...

Notice the date on the article. It's after Obama took office. So the other poster's point is valid.

reply to post by Dock9


That was interesting, thanks.There is no doubt we know nothing of who this man is.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
You were there when Fukino, whoever that person is, reviewed the long form?.. no, you are choosing to believe a govt employee stranger with a career interest in maintaining the status quo.

But that's what's going to happen regardless who reviews it or what documents are presented. The birthers are going to ask... "How can we trust this person"? And they will find a way to imply that the person or people verifying the document are lying.

That's why it's pointless for Obama or anyone to show the original document. Because birthers have their story and they're sticking to it no matter what.

Honestly, who the fukino is fukino?

So, the entire validity of being eligible to be the president of the United States is based on one person's word?

Well, if that is the case... I actually won the last presidential election! Just take my word for it!

reply to post by YourPopRock

Honestly, who the fukino is fukino?

So, the entire validity of being eligible to be the president of the United States is based on one person's word?

So you don't give a crap about the issue, you are just being obstinate to attract attention to yourself then? Because if you had even the slightest interest in the issue you would know exactly who Dr. Fukino is.

Chiyome Leinaala Fukino, M.D. is the Director of the Hawai'i State Department of Health. She was appointed to that position by the newly elected Republican Governor, Linda Lingle in 2002. Lingle is still Governor of Hawai'i. The SDOH is the agency that is responsible for archiving of vital records like Birth Certificates.

In other words Fukino is, under Hawai'ian State Law the exact 'independent' person authorized to see the archived record and verify or deny the computerized transcription. If you consider her to be politically compromised due to her political appointment, (and I do not consider her compromised) then her only possibly political dependence is to a very conservative Republican Governor and state political hierarchy. Hardly one to want to do Obama any favors.

"Birthers" seem to have a desire for an independent arbitrator to view the archived record and report back for everyone else. In reality, Fukino has done exactly that, and the answer is ignored, shouted down, dismissed. This is clear and absolute proof that, like you, they aren't really interested in the issue, they just want to continue to draw attention to themselves and propagate Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt where there is none.

Everything the "Birthers" have asked for, that is Constitutionally and Legally possible, has been satisfied. They keep gnawing at the bone because they know that if they repeat their questions over and over and over on Faux News, and since the answers will never be given voice on Faux News and therefore will be drowned out, then a certain gullible percent of the population will get the wrong idea that the answers have not been provided. And advantage can be taken from that.