All UFO's Are Ours, Aliens Haven't Visited Ever, & Believers Are Possibly Delusional

Originally posted by Signals

I'm just referring to what we see in the skies as being alien in nature.

Fair enough...
So I would say that 98-99% of all UFO related things seen in the skies are very well government funded, or privately funded secert aircraft!

Its been proven in the past, that these types of secrets have and are being kept from the public! And many of these projects have 100's-1000's of workers on the inside who have kept it a secret!

To me, it makes sense that our governments or private governments would rather spin the whole Alien/UFO idea into our culture to protect their secrets!

But.. There are a few unexplained events that have happened in my lifetime, and unexplained events that have happened a long time ago!!

Thus I can't rule out that an alien race of beings have been comming here.
Its possible that other forms of life from other places have been comming here.. Granted its a small chance.. But all the same.. I don't feel comfortable saying its delusional or that all these folks are phonies..

But I will give you a small bit of agreement on the fact that many UFO's seen by people are not aliens but other humans..

Yet we live in such a huge universe that it would be delusional to think we are the only beings in this HUGE place we are within!
Most of this comes down to size, and point of view.

I will go out on a limb here and say this... We could just be microscopic when compared to other beings..
Or prehaps they are the microscopic ones...
I guess we won't fully know until they do come here and make it known without a shadow of a doubt..
But things IMO don't work like that..
Its hollywood that makes us think such things.. And the governments are happy for the yarns Hollywood spins!!!

You just have to keep an open mind, and remind yourself, that all we know is what we are taught by other humans, on a human world!

We only see things from one small point of view..
The wider picture is just another small puzzle piece to the BIG picture!!!
And that is just a human way of looking at it!


But I can see how you get frustrated.. And would love for someone to prove you wrong.. But we can't..
Just as you can not prove us wrong..
Flawed logic! and its not you personally who are flawed.. Its our entire race whos logic is flawed.. Atleast when it comes to the standard of "soceity".

So the key here - it seems - is that the objects themselves are unidentified but could possibly be man made.

Fine.

But - as is always the case - there is also the issue of the actions of the objects in question.

Lets take the 1989/90 flap in Belgium. The object in question that was chased by F-16's performed manoveurs that the technology of the time could not reproduce with a manned vehicle (because the pilot would have been crushed by the G forces) and ostensibly could not be produced by remote technology of the time.

Some people would then suggest that the vehicle was a prototype UAV but that then begs a question - who in their right mind tests a top secret prototype over densley populated areas of Western Europe on successive nights in 1990 when the situation in Soviet Union (the worlds largest nuclear power at the time) was deteriorating at the end of the cold war - risking having it shot down, or losing the vehicle in a malfunction, causing an international incident?

Similarly with reports of UFO's over missile silos, nuclear power stations etc.

There is more to this than what is observed by the eye. Much more. Looking at one dimension of it is folly. Some of the things that have been seen act in the most bizarre manner.

Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by Signals

 

ok you got me to bite and i got one answer for you read book of the law by aleister crowley written in 1904 just an example of whats in the book a description of a nebula that you cant see without the hubble telescope!

Crowley eh? That's your answer to this thread? Wow.

Crowley's "Liber AL vel Legis" (or- Book of Law) was nothing in the way of "evidence" of anything. The man contradicted himself on the very origin/method that is was written under.

I mean...as far as "good books to lead you to the truth", I would worry for anyone who quickly points to Crowley's Liber AL vel Legis.

As for Crowley predicting a nebula by color, that was later discovered by the Hubble, I think you need to research those facts just a little more. After all, your claim has no backing, historic mentioning, or information on the entire internet to help support these claims.

and the colors are the same in the pictures! so this idea has been debunked!

Wrong. Again, pease provide proof of this.

And if you want, I will predict a "green thing" will be found in space in the future. Once it finally happens you can sing praise of me.

either open your eyes or stay with the herd! but remember this the herd will be destroyed in mass!

First Crowley, now Neiztchi? Yeah...you sound like the typical "level headed" guy (as you so claim a few posts ago).

So, this thread calls all people who blindly follow rubbish "delusional" and you come in here screaming about Crowley?

CLASSIC!

Gee man...go read that book again. I think you allowed yourself to be hoodwinked by a badly written hoax.

But hey...Nietzsche and Crowley fanatics are just as overboard and "quick to being mislead" as any UFO groupie, if not more.

The thing I find totally amazing is- that after reading that entire book, you come back with two random details within it (football pools and nebulas) and then place all confidence on "that being the winning argument here".

Wow...

You really got some solid logic there.

Crowley was a kook and a bigger sham then ALL the UFO camps out there now.

If you want to hold him high as proof and testament towards UFOs being real (or any of the crazy crap wack-o nonsense he wrote), then perhaps you should detail your reasons more.

Making passing reference to two random sentences in one of his awful books and leaving it at that, is a far cry from "showing proof".

And before you start pointing sticks at the herd...perhaps you may wish to prove that you are not a brainwashed pawn in a simple hoax that "should" have vanished in the early 1900s after Crowley was debunked and dismantled for all to see.

Oh wait...maybe I am just a blind sheep in the herd, and you SEE the REAL truth that is hidden from man and delivered to you through "some guy" who talks to "entities" from space (or elsewhere).

Yeah that must be it.

Carry on.

PS-I am writing a book about everything a magic elephant told me when I was in space with my glowing-nebula-mother. Real cheap....care to purchase one?

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Mr Mask]

Originally posted by Signals

Originally posted by SaturnFX
of course he is a troll...the internet is filled with unemployed people needing some form of self worth...

Ah, I see it didn't take long for you to jump. Nice to hear from you again though. Pots calling kettles black never gets old to me.

Perhaps you can make a positive contribution to the original topic, or just on a derail mission (again)

Anybody else think I'm on a troll mission check my profile, decide for yourself.

~Now, can anyone give me proof of UFO's and/or Aliens?~

~Do you not see how this fascination muddles the mind?~

The government agencies will keep you in the shadow as your doing them a favour trying to keep us as society to believe your trolop.
And saying that, there may or may not be any proof as there's no harm in believing. It doesn't cause anybody any harm.





[edit on 5-2-2010 by DClairvoyant]

Sorry to be boring -here is th Drake forumla for likelihood of other planet life:

N = R* x fp x ne x fl x fe x fc x L

where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
and

R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.[2]

R* is currently billions of stars
ne is also on the up woitht he discusovery of plantes around stars in the last 5 years
fl is also on the increase, with extreme bacteria found at temperatures about 100c, feet underground and some living off sulphur beds.

Point is the likelihood has shot up immensely in the last twenty or so yeasr as we find bacteria much more hardy than we expected. UIt will only be time before we find bacteria on the moon or mars!

Originally posted by templar knight
Sorry to be boring -here is th Drake forumla for likelihood of other planet life:

N = R* x fp x ne x fl x fe x fc x L

Point is the likelihood has shot up immensely in the last twenty or so yeasr as we find bacteria much more hardy than we expected. UIt will only be time before we find bacteria on the moon or mars!

You forgot to mention Quantum Physics as we have four dimensions on this inter-dimensional plane.

well no disrespect to the poster of this subject, but i don't think anyone on here could possible know the truth, so who is to say what is true and what is not ?
and i am not saying aliens have visited, but their is a lot of possible evidence, even from thousands of years ago, such as cave paintings which could possibly depict visitors/craft from other worlds.
i believe its good to stay open minded, and take in to consideration everyone's opinions, otherwise we will always be butting heads to prove who is wrong or who is right.

'Crowley' ... I find the very name repulsive !

Self-proclaimed 'King of the Witches' (what a joke), there is nothing worthy about a drug-haddled paedophile ... and unfortunately that is what he was.

He was not so much a man more of a 'twisted ego' ... why on earth would someone believe a word that creature wrote ... or even want to read it in the first place ?

And yet even today there are those who would put him on a pedistle *sp.

I'm sorry, but I see him as nothing but the patron saint of the desperate and gullible ... and I think Page was having an extended 'bad trip' at that time in his life (only logical excuse)

Anyhoo, certainly not reading matter I would recommend for this ... or any other subject really.

Woody

reply to post by woodwytch


My post, which held two legitimate insults, was only a reply in kind to the OP.

Sorry if you feel that I have lost credibility.
I'll do my best to make up for that in my very next post.
Give me a few minutes.

reply to post by woodwytch


well sounds like you go to bed and waller in ignorance just the way you wrote your whole post sounds like and idiot i hate to sound mean and invigorating but "crowley sounds like somethin i wouldnt want to read" huh...judge a book by its cover much?

sounds like you need to do some reading you obviously dont know anything about what your talking about to even have an opinion! you have to know facts and know of the situation other then he did drugs to have an opinion and you havent even picked up a book of his! so therefore you know nothing but hearsay and ozzy was and is a bigger drug head then crowley even crowley on his death bed had more of brain then that babling fool...and on the contrary Dio is better then Ozzy!

reply to post by Mr Mask


Originally posted by metalholic
reply to post by Signals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


ok you got me to bite and i got one answer for you read book of the law by aleister crowley written in 1904 just an example of whats in the book a description of a nebula that you cant see without the hubble telescope!




Crowley eh? That's your answer to this thread? Wow.

Crowley's "Liber AL vel Legis" (or- Book of Law) was nothing in the way of "evidence" of anything. The man contradicted himself on the very origin/method that is was written under.

I mean...as far as "good books to lead you to the truth", I would worry for anyone who quickly points to Crowley's Liber AL vel Legis.

As for Crowley predicting a nebula by color, that was later discovered by the Hubble, I think you need to research those facts just a little more. After all, your claim has no backing, historic mentioning, or information on the entire internet to help support these claims.



and the colors are the same in the pictures! so this idea has been debunked!




Wrong. Again, pease provide proof of this.

And if you want, I will predict a "green thing" will be found in space in the future. Once it finally happens you can sing praise of me.



either open your eyes or stay with the herd! but remember this the herd will be destroyed in mass!



First Crowley, now Neiztchi? Yeah...you sound like the typical "level headed" guy (as you so claim a few posts ago).

So, this thread calls all people who blindly follow rubbish "delusional" and you come in here screaming about Crowley?

CLASSIC!

Gee man...go read that book again. I think you allowed yourself to be hoodwinked by a badly written hoax.

But hey...Nietzsche and Crowley fanatics are just as overboard and "quick to being mislead" as any UFO groupie, if not more.

The thing I find totally amazing is- that after reading that entire book, you come back with two random details within it (football pools and nebulas) and then place all confidence on "that being the winning argument here".

Wow...

You really got some solid logic there.

Crowley was a kook and a bigger sham then ALL the UFO camps out there now.

If you want to hold him high as proof and testament towards UFOs being real (or any of the crazy crap wack-o nonsense he wrote), then perhaps you should detail your reasons more.

Making passing reference to two random sentences in one of his awful books and leaving it at that, is a far cry from "showing proof".

And before you start pointing sticks at the herd...perhaps you may wish to prove that you are not a brainwashed pawn in a simple hoax that "should" have vanished in the early 1900s after Crowley was debunked and dismantled for all to see.

Oh wait...maybe I am just a blind sheep in the herd, and you SEE the REAL truth that is hidden from man and delivered to you through "some guy" who talks to "entities" from space (or elsewhere).

Yeah that must be it.

Carry on.

PS-I am writing a book about everything a magic elephant told me when I was in space with my glowing-nebula-mother. Real cheap....care to purchase one?

ok first thing the nebula here is word for word quote from the book! ("my color is black to the blind but the blue and gold are seen of the seeing") ("blue am i and gold in the light of my bride but the red gleam is in my eyes my spangles are purple and green purple beyond purple it is the light higher then eye sight there is a veil that veil is black it is the veil of the modest woman it is the veil of sorrow and the pall of death this is none of me") now look up nebula 418!

now check this out. consider the outcrop of dictatorships only possible when moral growth is in its earliest stages and the prevalence of infantile cults like communism,fascism,pacifism,health crazes,occultism in nearl all its forms religions sentimentalised to the point of practical extinction.

consider the popularity of the cinema the wireless the football pools and guessing competitions all devices for soothing fractious infants no seed of purpose in them consider sport the babyish enthusiasms and rages which it excites whole nations disturbed by the disputes of boys.

consider war the atrocities which occur daily and leave us unmoved and hardly worried. we are children.

observe for yourselves the decay of the sense of sin the growth of innocence and irresponsibility the strange modifications of the reproductive instinct with a tendency to become bi-sexual or epicine.

need i keep going or get the picture?

Signals,

I apologize for the way I behaved last evening. It is not my intention - ever - to result to such childish behaviour, and for such you have my deepest apologies.

Okay, you are right, I was "ranting" in the sense that I was arguing you on the form of YOUR argument rather than on its substance.

So, how about I try and engage the substance?

But dangit, I want to clarify my problem with your insults first off. ... Bear with me, I'll make it short.

1) Poisoning the well - This occurs when a person uses a special form of ad hominem attack in which the person not only insults the intelligence of an opposing opinion but also "puts the words" in the mouth of the dissenting opinion beforehand.
2) Plain ole' Ad Hominem - This occurs when a person uses an insult to belittle the differing opinion of another.

How or why did you poison the well? You did so when you stated explicitly that any UFOs observed were the devise of men on Earth, and of course, if you believe otherwise, you are a simpleton. (paraphrase) (nevermind your initial assertion that UFOs simply did not exist at all, but I am willing to forget that one.)

Alright, on to "proof" of alien visitation?
Well, as the other dude (exuberant?) who is "champion of debate" has stated (correctly) there IS no proof.

However, science simply doesn't work that way.
Science works much like a court room in a sense that it uses a preponderance of evidence to support a theory.
So, what are the evidences that YOUR CLAIM is incorrect? They are many.
I'll start by posting just a couple of examples that call into *serious* question that man was able to manufacture the vehicles in question.

1977:
www.abovetopsecret.com... Please read through this and give me your opinions on the subject. In this thread I speak of a UFO that was seen "larger than a football field" which hovered silently and very slowly over an entire county in North Arkansas. Seen by many.

www.abovetopsecret.com... Another one. Just up the road. Same year. Seen by HUNDREDS of witnesses for a period extending several days.

These are just but two examples, of which, I could provide MANY more that call into question the "man-made" hypothesis. You see, you are talking about 33 years removed and technology which is still in advance of anything we could dream of today.

But of course, this isn't all that I wish you to consider.

I was really thankful for "TheX's" comments earlier in the thread about the geometric theorems in regards to the Crop Circle phenomenon.

Here is a write-up I did on a certain crop circle, which to me, is highly indicative of advanced knowledge.

www.abovetopsecret.com... Once again, please tell me what you think. And if you consider that a teaser of sorts, you can find even more in-depth write-ups on the same CC by user (banned) MikeSingh.

Moving on to yet another phenomena within the phenomenon, I would say that you only need look at one of your very own postings to read about removed "implants" from abduction victims.

Of course, abduction victims in and of themselves is also compelling evidence.


In conclusion... no, we do not have any definative proof of alien visitation, but the proponderance of evidence has led me to personally believe that we do. And if that makes me "delusional" or a "phony" then so be it, I suppose.
But please, next time be more considerate of how you address others. It is very rude.

reply to post by metalholic


Well sir.

I, on the other hand, have read it.

And let me tell you, the book does nothing in the way of providing proof of anything (as your posts are claiming it does here).

Enjoy calling other's idiots for "how they type".

I wouldn't be "overly proud" about your typing skills if I was you.

I surly wouldn't tell people "that their post makes them look like an idiot" if I was here "standing behind Crowley's work" a total believer.

Really...you are free to go and frolic with any radical circle of unconventional types you want. No one can stop you "worshiping" Crowley as "truth".

But seriously...save the whole "you are an idiot" for someplace else.

PS- Ozzy was also a drug addict, yes...but please do not start acting as if you know who did more drugs Ozzy or Crowley..because you don't. In fact, you "supposedly" read the entire "Book of Law" and only gathered from it two things (football and a nebula), and then you misquoted both.

Crowley would be so proud to know one of his followers are so strong in their stance, even when misquoting/misunderstanding his work in a public forum on the subject of aliens.

PSS- Sigh...why am I trying to enlighten a Crowley loving metal-head who likes Dio? Mask, you really need to wise up before these types drive you mad.

Are you working for nasa? cause this is a stupid post you have here..former nasa members ect has given proof of the existense for a long time ago. Some of our members died this recently..got killed by FBI.. So i suggest you read the guidelines of being on this webpage before posting something stupid. You may be our guest to repost it on a "my opinion" post. But everyone has the fact about ufos. if you are a normal human being with a wish of posting something of your own,please mark it different cause this is very foolish. Ufos has had 73 landings on tellus the last 6months. Talk to the media, they are used for giving out info wich are false at most times. We on ATS gather and often loose our lives getting info like this,wich are TOP-Secret.

Just think about it,If u are former nasa,you can tell your superviser we allready are sitting on the copy. If you are a regular human,please go somewhere else.

I am a bit puzzled why a thread where the OP basically says "Omg UFOs don't exist, you are delusional and phonies! If they shake my hand I'll believe, otherwise they can't exist.." has gotten to 17 pages. Seriously?

He doesn't even have any arguments worth a spit. In a nutshell HE doesn't believe in UFOs. We care why? And we care to try and make him believe why? Why threads like this one, and white umbrellas swell to ridiculous page counts, while legitimate UFO threads with actual substance get 2 pages and fade to obscurity, really baffles me.

Dio sucks.
2nd line.

reply to post by Mr Mask


i see you have overlooked all the other things from the book i have mentioned oh and why do you keep avoiding the book stating that the wireless is evidence and the guessing competitions your picking and choosing what you want to be skeptical of

LETS BE SKEPTICAL OF IT ALL and i'm sure you havent read the book or you wouldnt be sittin here babling like you are you wanted to come in here and be skeptical of someone talking about crowley because of his reputation yeah makes you look good but until you read his stuff your just another sheep in the herd afraid that some guy who done alot of drugs might teach you something

ozzy is burnt out and dont know is head from his ass crowley died still very mentally intact and lets say you did read that book you prolly didnt understand a word it said as it talks in metaphors,ciphers,and cryptograms and sometimes you have to have the hebrew quabbalah(prolly didnt spell it right) to figure things out...

reply to post by JayinAR


you prolly only know rainbow in the dark and few other songs played on the radio...the radio # aint the # to listen to!

reply to post by metalholic


Dio sucks.
2nd line.

reply to post by JayinAR


your opinion! but i will say this if i did think that i would rather listen to it then ghetto project music for all you hip hop wigger wankster wannabee's lil wayne sucks!