Racist racists race baiting in a racist race to the bottom.

Here we go people... We always talk about American politics in terms of left and right, then undoubtedly someone points out that both manifest themselves in the form of a manufactured two headed monster.

Yet just as undoubtedly the thread goes on to represent a two headed monster, which begs the question;

IS THIS MONSTER MANUFACTURED?

So this thread will start off being the two headed monster, there are no right or wrongs presented, but a few lefts and rights below on an issue that is VERY polarized. Please wade thru these stimulating questions and then define what racism is and is not.

Are you racist because you distinguish people by race?

Are you a racist for calling other people racist?

Are you racist if racism never crosses your mind?

Are you a racist if you think about racism all the time?

Are you a racist for bringing it up?

Are you a racist for never bringing it up?

Are you racist because you are proud of you race?

Are you racist because you wish to get "beyond" race?

and

ARE YOU A RACIST FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD?

I believe racism is a predetermined attitude possessed by an individual, in which the individual projects this predetermined attitude on a group/s of people based upon race.

I think racism cannot be observed by an entire race, because I believe that is a racist
notion in itself.

I do however see it being used as a political tool in a very interesting, unsavory dance of this two headed monster. For example is affirmative action racist because it addresses
race specifically and excludes other races? Or does racism flourish when it is not condemned?

I suspect this thread will flop because it is controversial in nature and offers nothing to hide behind. Never the less it seems to be brought up on ATS often here and there, but is never addressed squarely so, flop it be...

On another thought, it is interesting that a thread that does not take sides is admonished
with silence, even though taking sides is a "bad" thing to many and admonished with passion.

Very interesting - if I prefaced this thread with specific charges of racism likely it would be alight with discussion.





[edit on 5-1-2010 by Janky Red]

reply to post by Janky Red


Janky you are correct. A sensational title would have driven in droves of people. I like your title as is though. Its witty and catchy with a lot of play on words.

In terms of racist...first, please read what I have written here in a thread and give your thoughts.

Racism - Misuse of a Powerful Word

I shall ponder your questions in the mean time.

The words 'racist', 'racism' have had their day

Overused to the max

Counter productive

No one cares anyway

Time to move on

Well to start out I will copy and paste your questions and answer them as honestly as possible.

Are you racist because you distinguish people by race? Yes and No
Are you a racist for calling other people racist? Yes and No
Are you racist if racism never crosses your mind? No
Are you a racist if you think about racism all the time? No
Are you a racist for bringing it up? Yes and No
Are you a racist for never bringing it up? Possibly
Are you racist because you are proud of you race? No
Are you racist because you wish to get "beyond" race? No
and

ARE YOU A RACIST FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD? I hope not.

Your questions would generally have to be in a certain context to be answerable in the positive or negative.

As for the ones that I could give a negative or positive response, I did.


I believe it is another box we are trained to surround us.
I believe using the word as a weapon is one of the most despicable forms of fallacious attacks.
I believe I will stop here before I stick my foot in my ample mouth.

I will give you a star and flag for even attempting to broach this subject.

reply to post by Janky Red


It could be argued that it's mostly Ethnocentrism that hurts everybody and it enables us not to think of the other group as equal or a person. I'll post a link to this but one of the authors toward the end sees ethnocentrism as a natural outgrowth of nepotism.

en.wikipedia.org...

Rascism,racism,"racsim",they are here,they are there,they hate our freedom! We must go after the racist's! Humor aside,it is another tool to foster hate and mob control,to divide the people.

I'm goin' for it!!!!!!

Originally posted by Janky Red
Here we go people... We always talk about American politics in terms of left and right, then undoubtedly someone points out that both manifest themselves in the form of a manufactured two headed monster.

Yet just as undoubtedly the thread goes on to represent a two headed monster, which begs the question;

IS THIS MONSTER MANUFACTURED?

So this thread will start off being the two headed monster, there are no right or wrongs presented, but a few lefts and rights below on an issue that is VERY polarized. Please wade thru these stimulating questions and then define what racism is and is not.

Are you racist because you distinguish people by race?

Do you mean if I say, "meet joe, he's the black guy in the blue shirt over there"?
Then no, cause there probably is only black guy with a blue shirt on.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist for calling other people racist?

If I think someone is making a generalization about a group based on no current or historical evidence or trends, then yes. However, if there is some truth to the matter, then no. One might point out curious socio-economic state of blacks. One might also point out the apathy rampant in an imperialistic white society, or the percieved social ineptness of the asian person. Is there a term for what I'm describing besdies "racism" or "truth"? there seems to be no term for this grey area.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist if racism never crosses your mind?

No. The person who is honest no matter what he's talking about is simply that, honest. Avoiding race topics is a sign of inherent racism, sort of like people who're homophobic are gay, or however that goes.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist if you think about racism all the time?

yes.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist for bringing it up?

It really depends on the situation. Most peole have experienced race being the elephant in the room. Usually it is untouched. People who bring it up are met with sighs of relief or with scorn.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist for never bringing it up?

No. However imo if you want to bring it up but don't, there is something racist about it. That's what my gut tells me.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist because you are proud of you race?

If the acknowledgement of race exists, then I guess being proud of one's race would technically make them racist. The word shouldn't extend to such a thing though. Again, not sure what the word is for that. Does pride suffice?

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist because you wish to get "beyond" race?

Since I'm probably technically a racist in the Progressive Dictionary, considering my policy of unwavering equality in all aspects of life, I could be considered racist. The cause of it really comes down to "I don't care", in my day to day life. I don't want to hear about race if a person is trying to gain something from or after the conversation.

Originally posted by Janky Red
and

ARE YOU A RACIST FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD?
[/quote]
Again, if the term racism covers the mere acknowledgement of race, then yes I guess I'm a racist. However, people might respond by telling you the world is made up of cupcakes, and even though it's off topic they will be considered as not racist. It's quite a scenario.

Originally posted by Janky Red
I believe racism is a predetermined attitude possessed by an individual,

I agreed with nearly everything you said However, I believe that an individual does not posess racism.

But the racism seems to quite contrarily possess the individual.

Tough truth huh

Abductee

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist because you distinguish people by race?

This depends on context. Do you believe you are superior because of your skin color and/or race to the people you are distinguishing? Then yes.

If you are pointing out a person, it is an identifier. It happens. We are human. If you are doing so in a derogatory way it isn't racism, its bigotry or ignorant, but not racist.

Are you a racist for calling other people racist?

Most likely it is the pot calling the kettle black scenario.
Personally, I will call out someone if they are being truly racist. If they tell me that they are better than the Mexican kid because they are superior..then I will inform them they are being racist in that they believe that just because they are of a different race, they are superior.

Are you racist if racism never crosses your mind?

Nope, we are human. We all have prejudices. Again, it depends on what exactly crosses your mind. Example: Old Man Joe is rocking on his rocking chair and is complaining that the neighborhood is getting 'darker' these days. He is being ignorant and a bigot and has some major prejudices, but unless he truly believes that he, being white is superior to those of a different race, just an old bitter man with racial prejudices and lots of bigotry.

Are you a racist if you think about racism all the time?

Here, yes. If you are truly a racist, in the terms of what a racist is. I am not talking of your run of the mill jerk-off that just doesn't like people because of their skin color. I am talking the hard-core, I hate whatever race isn't mine and I believe I am better because of it....i.e., see Hitler, KKK, Black Panthers (some and I might be wrong)

Are you a racist for bringing it up?

Bring what up? Race? No. Why would you be a racist if you bring up race.

Are you a racist for never bringing it up?

One would be naive to not believe that there are still pockets of true racism in the world.

Are you racist because you are proud of you race?

No. Being proud of your race, doesn't mean you are superior to another race. I am proud of my race and my heritage. It is who I am and what I am made off. I in no way believe it gives me a superior advantage in abilities over the next guy.

Are you racist because you wish to get "beyond" race?

Not at all. It should be the goal of all Mankind to see it as that. We are all human. Last I checked none of us fall under sub-species based on our color or where we come from. Getting beyond it requires education and major changes to some cultural aspects around the world. It has come a long way and as a race (Mankind, human, whatever) we must continue to understand each other that we are all the same. No different, except for the color of our skin in the beginning.

ARE YOU A RACIST FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD?

You are brave enough to take on an issue that many just throw around. People fling racist and racism not understanding the true implications of the word. Most of what goes on, not all, but most is just racial prejudices and ignorance. I commend your attempt to bring out some education, discussion and thoughts on this Janky.

Originally posted by Dock9
The words 'racist', 'racism' have had their day

Overused to the max

Counter productive

No one cares anyway

Time to move on

You might be right, but I think it is obvious many care in one way or the other, I mean it seems you care, thats the point of the thread.

I wish it could be a non issue for everybody.

Thanks

Originally posted by hoghead cheese
reply to post by Janky Red

 

It could be argued that it's mostly Ethnocentrism that hurts everybody and it enables us not to think of the other group as equal or a person. I'll post a link to this but one of the authors toward the end sees ethnocentrism as a natural outgrowth of nepotism.

en.wikipedia.org...

That link has some great insight, very interesting theory...

Wonder what the next outgrowth will be, maybe nationalism, regionalism, language?

Originally posted by beammeup
Rascism,racism,"racsim",they are here,they are there,they hate our freedom! We must go after the racist's! Humor aside,it is another tool to foster hate and mob control,to divide the people.

That makes sense, even though I thought it was a process of an individual, yet, you think it is a tool to use on the masses. Never thought of it that particular way, but it seems evident that it does divide, who holds the tool?

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist because you distinguish people by race?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you a racist for calling other people racist?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you racist if racism never crosses your mind?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you a racist if you think about racism all the time?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you a racist for bringing it up?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you a racist for never bringing it up?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you racist because you are proud of you race?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

Are you racist because you wish to get "beyond" race?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

ARE YOU A RACIST FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD?

No, but that doesn't mean you aren't a racist.

[edit on 1/5/2010 by JPhish]

Originally posted by heyo
I'm goin' for it!!!!!!

Originally posted by Janky Red
Here we go people... We always talk about American politics in terms of left and right, then undoubtedly someone points out that both manifest themselves in the form of a manufactured two headed monster.

Yet just as undoubtedly the thread goes on to represent a two headed monster, which begs the question;

IS THIS MONSTER MANUFACTURED?

So this thread will start off being the two headed monster, there are no right or wrongs presented, but a few lefts and rights below on an issue that is VERY polarized. Please wade thru these stimulating questions and then define what racism is and is not.

Are you racist because you distinguish people by race?

Do you mean if I say, "meet joe, he's the black guy in the blue shirt over there"?
Then no, cause there probably is only black guy with a blue shirt on.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist for calling other people racist?

If I think someone is making a generalization about a group based on no current or historical evidence or trends, then yes. However, if there is some truth to the matter, then no. One might point out curious socio-economic state of blacks. One might also point out the apathy rampant in an imperialistic white society, or the percieved social ineptness of the asian person. Is there a term for what I'm describing besdies "racism" or "truth"? there seems to be no term for this grey area.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist if racism never crosses your mind?

No. The person who is honest no matter what he's talking about is simply that, honest. Avoiding race topics is a sign of inherent racism, sort of like people who're homophobic are gay, or however that goes.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist if you think about racism all the time?

yes.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist for bringing it up?

It really depends on the situation. Most peole have experienced race being the elephant in the room. Usually it is untouched. People who bring it up are met with sighs of relief or with scorn.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you a racist for never bringing it up?

No. However imo if you want to bring it up but don't, there is something racist about it. That's what my gut tells me.

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist because you are proud of you race?

If the acknowledgement of race exists, then I guess being proud of one's race would technically make them racist. The word shouldn't extend to such a thing though. Again, not sure what the word is for that. Does pride suffice?

Originally posted by Janky Red
Are you racist because you wish to get "beyond" race?

Since I'm probably technically a racist in the Progressive Dictionary, considering my policy of unwavering equality in all aspects of life, I could be considered racist. The cause of it really comes down to "I don't care", in my day to day life. I don't want to hear about race if a person is trying to gain something from or after the conversation.

Originally posted by Janky Red
and

ARE YOU A RACIST FOR RESPONDING TO THIS THREAD?
[/quote]
Again, if the term racism covers the mere acknowledgement of race, then yes I guess I'm a racist. However, people might respond by telling you the world is made up of cupcakes, and even though it's off topic they will be considered as not racist. It's quite a scenario.

I understand that there is really no room for a grey area, because the grey area can be
used as an excuse to introduce the term, I think it is irresponsible to do so but everyone has a different threshold I suspect. At what point does rational debate discussing observable consistencies indicate bias or truth?

I had a friend in high school who used to call geezer, asian or asian geezer when before he would pass a very slow car in an inappropriate lane. He was often correct,
does that make him a racist or observant? To his defense he did not seem to hold any other vocalized biases.

Thank for taking the challenge

Everyone is a little racist, everyone has the capacity to "hate" though few will either accept these facts, or admit it.

Those are the vast majority.... It is those who reside on the extremes who should be both reviled and feared. When race becomes obsession, when hate dominates the void of ignorance within a human soul, you have become an extremist capable of great evil and injustice.

We humans are all different in many ways and, yet we are the same.

We're one but we're not the same...



Turn up the sound and listen to these words carefully.

reply to post by Janky Red


The key is to keep an open mind, and to realize that it's possible that while consistencies exist, one might not be aware of all the variables. There just hasn't been enough time for one variable or another to be discarded. We in North America are doing something for the first time, bringing together all cultures and races into one. We need more time to figure the why's and the how's of culture and race imo.

I hate the thought of individuals hating another simply because of their skin colour.

But in all honesty, I at times wonder if I am a "cultural racist" - meaning that I am proud of my country's culture - both indigenous and non-indigenous, and resent the attempts made recently by some minority cultures to force their culture into the mainstream.

This I detest very much.

I am sure that to some, that makes me a racist - but to that accusation I poo-ha!

Originally posted by UFOabducteebe

Originally posted by Janky Red
I believe racism is a predetermined attitude possessed by an individual,

I agreed with nearly everything you said

However, I believe that an individual does not posess racism.

But the racism seems to quite contrarily possess the individual.

Tough truth huh

Abductee

Just like most of the responses... I never thought of it that way, either way something is
possessed.