DEVGRU vs. SFOD-D

Which unit do you think is more capable of handling CT operations, and Hostage Rescue?

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I want opinions here. Provide accurate information verifying your claims, and links to support.


Mr. M

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by StarChild]

[Edited on 24-5-2004 by StarChild]

DEVGRU

Much of what DEVGRU, or the Naval Special Warfare Development Group, is and does remains classified and unknown. What is know is that they were formed in the mid 1990's after SEAL Team Six, the Navy's Counter-terrorism was disbanded. DEVGRU was created after Richard Marcinko, the original commander of ST6 published a series of books that outlined the history and purpose of the original Team. According to the US Navy, DEVGRU was formed to create, test, and evaluate new tactics, weapons, and equipment.

However, with the disbanding of ST 6 the Navy was left without a maritime CT unit, although SEAL Team 8 was tasked with maritime deployments and takedowns. Recent rumors have appear to confirm that DEVGRU is actually a CT unit created (although current officers will deny its existance) to replace the lime-light stricken ST6. This is born out, in no small significance, buy the structure surroundind DEVGRU. While under the command of NAVSPECWARGRU (Navy Special Warfare Group, DEVGRU is also a component of JSOC, with other such units as the US Army's 1st SFOD-D and 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment, both units that list counter-terrorism in their promary activities.

www.specwarnet.com...


SFOD-D

The U.S. Army�s 1st Special Forces Operational Detachment-Delta (SFOD-D) is one of two of the U.S. government�s principle unit tasked with counterterrorist operations outside the United States (the other being Naval Special Warfare Development Group). Delta Force was created by U.S. Army colonel Charles Beckwith in 1977 in direct response to numerous, well-publicized terrorist incidents that occurred in the 1970s. From its beginnings, Delta was heavily influenced by the British SAS, a philosophical result of Col. Beckwith�s year-long (1962-1963) exchange tour with that unit. Accordingly, it is today organized into three operating squadrons, all of which (A, B, and C) are subdivided into small groups known as troops. It is rumored that each troop, as the case with the SAS, specializes in HALO, SCUBA, or other skill groups. These troops can each be further divided into smaller units as needed to fit mission requirements. Delta also maintains support units which handle selection and training, logistics, finance, and the unit�s medical requirements. Within this grouping is a little known, but vital technical unit which is responsible for covert eavesdropping equipment for use in hostage rescues and similar situations.

The unit is headquartered in a remote section of the U.S. Army�s sprawling Fort Bragg, North Carolina. Reports of the compound indicate that no expense has been spared, including numerous shooting facilities (both for close quarters battle and longer range sniping), an Olympic-sized swimming pool, dive tank, and a three-story climbing wall. Yet, as lavish as these accouterments may seem, they all serve vital roles in training counterterrorists. As units such as Delta do not get to choose when and where they will be needed. As such, they must train for any eventuality. These skills are enhanced by the unit's participation in an ongoing exchange and training programs with foreign counterterrorist units, such as (as might be expected) Britain's 22 SAS, France's GIGN, Germany's GSG-9, Israel's Sayeret Matkal/Unit 269, and Australia's own Special Air Service Regiment. Such close cooperation with other groups provides innumerable benefits, including exchanges of new tactics and equipment as well as enhancing relations that might prove useful in later real-world operations.

Delta troopers are also equipped with the most advanced weaponry and equipment available in the U.S. special operations arsenal. A significant portion of their gear is highly customized and cannot be found anywhere but in Delta�s lockers. An early example of this was a specially-constructed HAHO parachute rig which were been adapted to permit jumpers to keep their hands at their sides during the descent rather than above their heads. This alteration prevents the loss of functioning which can occur as a result of prolonged flight time in such an unnatural position.

www.specialoperations.com...



Mr. M

wow nice find
i would say that SFOD-D would be my choice for hostage rescue and DEVGRU for CT
with SFOD-D having the exsperience of cross training with most hostage rescue forces around the globe would be my first choice
DEVGRU i would pick for CT because they get new equipment and since there wont be no hostages what a better place to test them in a freindly free zone

Originally posted by devilwasp
wow nice find
i would say that SFOD-D would be my choice for hostage rescue and DEVGRU for CT
with SFOD-D having the exsperience of cross training with most hostage rescue forces around the globe would be my first choice
DEVGRU i would pick for CT because they get new equipment and since there wont be no hostages what a better place to test them in a freindly free zone

DEVGRU for CT because of their equipment? Why? They get the same equipment Delta does. And what are you talking about when you say a "friendly free zone"? Do you not trust DEVGRU to handle hostage rescue missions?


Mr. M

It's not very connected to the subject of this thread, but I just wanted to ask why the US military/government decided to continue with SFOD-D and not Blue Light?

well u said that they feild test new eqipment and tactics
what would happen if something went wrong or failed
if they used it in hostage rescue then your tkaing a bigger risk than using tactics and equipment that work.
if u use it in CT then you can see if these tactics will work and you wont get any freindlies aka civies/hostages hurt
i would rather use the teste methods than new untested equipment

[Edited on 25-5-2004 by devilwasp]

Originally posted by Transc3ndent
It's not very connected to the subject of this thread, but I just wanted to ask why the US military/government decided to continue with SFOD-D and not Blue Light?

If you know about Blue Light, then you should know why it was "converted".


Mr. M

Devilwasp, do you honestly have any idea what DEVGRU does, or are you just speculating? It doesn't sound to me like you are too familiar with this particular unit.


Mr. M

Originally posted by StarChild

Originally posted by Transc3ndent
It's not very connected to the subject of this thread, but I just wanted to ask why the US military/government decided to continue with SFOD-D and not Blue Light?

If you know about Blue Light, then you should know why it was "converted".


Mr. M

Actually I read about Blue Light somewhere, searched for it on google, found it has something to do with the history of SFOD-D, and that SFOD-D remained to be active while Blue Light ceased to exist, but I didn't find out why.

That's why I'm asking.

Alright, I'll bite.

Neither of them.

Thats right. I can't say which until a specific situation is mentioned.

Is it on water? IE a Rig. DEVGRU.

Is it on an aircraft. CAG (If not because I don't beleive DEVGRU do as much work with A/C than CAG/Delta/KFC/whatever do. Just don't quote me on that).

Both are highly capable units.

Originally posted by StarChild
Devilwasp, do you honestly have any idea what DEVGRU does, or are you just speculating? It doesn't sound to me like you are too familiar with this particular unit.


Mr. M

im not very familiar with US SF's only the famous ones i know
im just using the info i was given if u think its wrong thats ur call but i stick wi ma choice

Both are only as good as a human being can be trained. SAS are the best. Then the D boys and SEALS. The navy guys I met were typically younger and more physically capable but also they were a bit on the immature side (25 yr olds vs 40 yr olds).

The equipment is all cutting edge. We would get "new stuff" at the Sig Det that was actually something that Delta had been using for two years.

If you want to know more - they are accepting applications.

Mike
former SigDet cdr
5th SFG(A)
1998-2001

They cross train with each other, and frequently operate jointly, so I don't think you can really say in all cases A is better than B. They use the same equipment and techniques, and they both fire a lot of ammunition, so their shooters are highly skilled in CT, hostage rescue, etc...

It's actually SFOD-E.

They design the stuff that D gets.

It's said that the Echo group trained Chuck Norris.

Steven Hawking was a junior Echo in SFOD-E before his unfortunate parachute accident. He was able to break his fall with the power of his mind, just not quite enough.

And they're four letters better than those -A pikers.

reply to post by Tom Bedlam


WOW do u believe what u just said (echo trained chuck norris ) Chuck was in the air force stationed in korea where he sparked interest in Tang Soo Do, then he got out and earned black belts in other arts, he started fighting in 1963 and stopped in 1972. he started acting in 1968 and rose to fame, he became good friends with Bruce Lee. He learned from him and Lee learned a little from Chuck. He is an actor with a strong history in martial arts not God. As far as Delta Vs DEVGRU, both are highly trained and equipped but it is foolish to debate who is better at what. Every man has a strength and a weakness and a member of SFOD-D is probably better at CT or HR than a member of DEVGRU and visa-versa. If i was a hostage i would trust both with my life.

PFC Tim Beck
DEP-11b with 40 op.
U.S. Army
Rapid City, SD

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
It's said that the Echo group trained Chuck Norris.

You're wrong. Chuck Norris trained them!!!!

And Hawking was the Senior Echo who tried to catch a flying RPG with his teeth.

I always find it funny to see a bunch of people that obviously have no experience with these kind of units debate their capabilities. First off DEVGRU and Delta have two different missions. There is no reason to debate their capabilities, especially since I doubt any of you have been in either of these units.

I'm a former civilian employee of DEVGRU. You have NO IDEA how well trained they are. They expend more ammunition in training in one year than the entire U. S. Marine Corps does. They keep up their skills at MANY training sites INCONUS and overseas. They do, it fact train with Delta and other SF units. They have many missions other than just "plain ol CT", but we can't get into that here...

:-X