RFJ-Reward For Justice Program

Successful? Unsuccessful?

The US has spent at least a trillion dollars waging wars against terrorists. Yet, it is merely offering a 25 million dollar reward for the person, Osama Bin Laden, they claim is responsible for 9/11. I would have imagined that the reward for Osama would have been a lot higher. However, the bounty has remained the same since 2001.

costofwar.com...

The Rewards for Justice program continues to be one of the most valuable U.S. Government assets in the fight against international terrorism. Established by the 1984 Act to Combat International Terrorism, Public Law 98-533, the Program is administered by the U.S. Department of State’s Bureau of Diplomatic Security.

Under this program, the Secretary of State is currently offering rewards of up to $25 million for information that prevents or favorably resolves acts of international terrorism against U.S. persons or property worldwide. Rewards also may be paid for information leading to the arrest or conviction of terrorists attempting, committing, conspiring to commit, or aiding and abetting in the commission of such acts.

www.rewardsforjustice.net...


So far, the program has paid out about 80 million dollars. 30 million of that 80 was paid for information on the Hussein brothers.

The Rewards for Justice program has paid more than $80 million to more than 50 people who provided information that prevented international terrorist attacks or helped bring to justice those involved in prior acts.

www.rewardsforjustice.net...

Wanted Terrorists


I feel that this program is not as successful as it could be. Shelling out 80 million dollars over a span of 25 years is not enough IMO. Just think of how much aid we provide to other countries or the price we pay for military weapons per year.

The program needs tweaking. I think the rewards should be increased. The reward for Osama(yes, I believe he is dead too) should be at least a billion.

I can't guarantee that a higher reward will lead to more snitches, but the least we could do is try.

I also think the following may help improve the program.

Currently, there is a bill in Congress HR 57 that will help improve this program. The bill would allow the US to pay rewards to officers or employees of a foreign government.

A similar bill had been previously introduced in 2005 and had cleared the house but ended up nowhere.

From 2005 floor speech

Mr. Speaker, over 4 years after 9/11, Osama bin Laden is still at large, and apparently no closer to being in our custody today than he was on September 12, 2001. The United States obviously must do more to bring this monstrous man to justice. Our bill would take another small, but potentially important step in that direction. It would allow our Secretary of State in extraordinary circumstances to authorize a cash reward to a foreign government official who may have provided critical information resulting in the arrest and conviction of such a terrorist. I stress to all of my colleagues that this authority is to be used only where the information is critical to the capture of a key terrorist figure at severe risk or of severe harm to the informant.

www.govtrack.us...


Do you feel that this program can help prevent terrorist acts and bring terrorists to justice?

What ways can we make this program more successful?

Make sure you take a look at the wanted terrorists. Never know, it just might make you an overnight millionaire.

I turned in so many people tre to help with the hunt for bin laden and the guy who bombed the Cole.. after turning n the people who set up and where trying to recruit for Osama bin laden instead of a reward they beat me drilled my teeth out fractured my sternum and gave me a disease to die.. ohj ya and sold my intellectual property on tv with clinton anderson.. this is a true story and it was set up by steve ahlbergh former head of navy seals... he is best friens wth my rivals.. and the reward?? I am supposed to just die!So this is the true story... MURDER If it s not declassified and does ot come out clean on TV I will die and it is deliberate murder.

Again I turned alot of those guys in and other people could have got the rewar but it was not me.. it s to the point where I am dying of MRSA with no way to save myself.. this is the truth of the rewards for justice program.. actually there is a guy from east Europe names Joe. He was a real Justice department spy with a white passport.. must be a secret but no one told me that so I will put his name up soon because my reward waas my murder or I can have a tv interview and speak clearly....again the way it goes now is deliberate murder.

reply to post by zeuseadam


I have been following your other thread and must admit I am still confused as to the storyline you present. I plan to continue to read it because I am interested in what you have to say.

Which of those guys did you turn in?

Dude, if you have evidence and believe your story is legit, you should get Jesse Venturas attention and see if he can make a show about it.

That's not saying that I doubt your story. I just think you should bring it to the attention of people who have the assets to bring publicity to your claims.

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by zeuseadam

 

I have been following your other thread and must admit I am still confused as to the storyline you present. I plan to continue to read it because I am interested in what you have to say.

Which of those guys did you turn in?

Dude, if you have evidence and believe your story is legit, you should get Jesse Venturas attention and see if he can make a show about it.

That's not saying that I doubt your story. I just think you should bring it to the attention of people who have the assets to bring publicity to your claims.

You are right. It was supposed to be very confusing to anyone other than people who had classified information because it was a secret. I turned in the people who where setting up and recruiting for Osama Bin Laden a whole string and crew of them.. the guy who blew up the Cole and the Nazi terror bust Belgium.. the thank you?? My teeth drilled out beaten choked given MRSA to die while a group that stole my intellectual property run around saying I am crazy while they all set up scams in the horse world. I should make it really easy and straight to follow but that would really screw up the original idea for a punchline. Yes it is a true story I turned in so many I cannot count. I would hate to clean it up before someone used it for a conspiracy show. And Jesse Ventura? Well since the guy who hates my guts and set this up is the former head of special warfare and head of the Navy Seals and he was friends of my rivals.. I have no chance. So i am starting to state things very straight and it must be ok because I have threatened to so many times before. Any suggestions?

[edit on 25-12-2009 by zeuseadam]

Originally posted by jam321
reply to post by zeuseadam

 

I have been following your other thread and must admit I am still confused as to the storyline you present. I plan to continue to read it because I am interested in what you have to say.

Which of those guys did you turn in?

Dude, if you have evidence and believe your story is legit, you should get Jesse Venturas attention and see if he can make a show about it.

That's not saying that I doubt your story. I just think you should bring it to the attention of people who have the assets to bring publicity to your claims.

i wonder if there are people in the intelligence community that collected rewards from what I went through kept the money and that is why I am wanted dead by the government of Oregon and steve ahlberg?
Your thread may be very helpful actually notice JJ there to look at my thread , on andies side and if she caught someone for sure I would get nothing so.....
DID ANDY SCHNEIDER RECEIVE REWARDS FOR JUSTICE OR TONY GRANGER OR ANYONE FROM WHAT I WENT THROUGH AND IS THAT WHY they want me dead?

Maybe you can help me understand better.

What does the horse world have to do with terrorism?

How does it all connect?

reply to post by jam321


Well for starters.. terrorist grow the heroin.. mafias sell the heroin that makes a natural link between the two. Women are another common item of the two and lets not forget the love of the horse as part of Arab culture, Bin Ladens brother has a endurance horse race in example and mafias love horses. There is also a whose who of the rich and elite of the world horses are not cheap especially show horses.. the king of Dubai , Michale schumaker(his friends are andies friends and they are sheik Mohammads friends)for example.. that is unless your reputation is destroyed while others make all the money and sick... that is a quick answer I hope it is understandable.. also the other thread if it was ever seriously fixed there are a lot of links to the Arabian horse show scene(I was one of the best in the world) and to Mike Brown the head of Fema.

No, I do not believe this program will ultimately be successful, at all.

The problem lies not with the program but with the people running it, because as far as anyone is concerned, they want people like Osama bin Laden left out to be seen as a boogeyman of sorts in order to scare up more budgetary funds.

This is the crux of the matter because if they actually succeded in bringing him to justice, their connections to the Saudia Arabian Government, and through it, the Al Saud's connection to Osama bin Laden's family and reliance upon his family in re-building Saudia Arabia would come into question.

As well as this the fact that Osama bin Laden assisted the United States through covert means during Operation Cyclone through covert war with Russia, using Afghanistan as a surrogate during the Cold War will come into play and a lot of toes would be not only stomped upon but people within our Government both past and present would be indicted not only for the covert funding of the Mujahideen during the 70's and 80's, but for essentially training the one man they are now blaming for September 11th.

Quote from SKL's Thread :

Truth and Lies of 9/11 : Mike Ruppert, C.I.A. Drug Running, and Your Government

Knowing like many of you, that terrorism is an abstract idea, we have to look at ”terrorism” as non-defined, at least as far as the entire world is concerned, because there is no one clear-cut definition of this word, what some call a “buzzword”.

As well, we have to look at negative as a loosely defined word, because it can mean many things in connection to different words, like ”I say no to drugs”, or I believe ”no amount of terror will force my hand to act”, or ”no, I do not believe the official version of the events of 9/11”.

Concrete, can as well hold many different meanings to people, from the rock-hard substance poured to create a sidewalk, to ”I swear, his head is made of concrete”, to something similar like ”did you feel the ground shake? I thought the concrete was jumping up to get me” as well as ”look at the chunks of concrete falling off the World Trade Towers”.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Operation Cyclone

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm the Afghan mujahideen during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989.

Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken; funding began with $20–30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.

Operation Cyclone is referenced in its entirety in this book :

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f75932d4680a.jpg[/atsimg]

Conversations with History: Steve Coll

Amazon Review :

Steve Coll's Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 offers revealing details of the CIA's involvement in the evolution of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the years before the September 11 attacks.

From the beginning, Coll shows how the CIA's on-again, off-again engagement with Afghanistan after the end of the Soviet war left officials at Langley with inadequate resources and intelligence to appreciate the emerging power of the Taliban.

He also demonstrates how Afghanistan became a deadly playing field for international politics where Soviet, Pakistani, and U.S. agents armed and trained a succession of warring factions.

At the same time, the book, though opinionated, is not solely a critique of the agency.

Coll balances accounts of CIA failures with the success stories, like the capture of Mir Amal Kasi.

Coll, managing editor for the Washington Post, covered Afghanistan from 1989 to 1992.

He demonstrates unprecedented access to records of White House meetings and to formerly classified material, and his command of Saudi, Pakistani, and Afghani politics is impressive.

He also provides a seeming insider's perspective on personalities like George Tenet, William Casey, and anti-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke ("who seemed to wield enormous power precisely because hardly anyone knew who he was or what exactly he did for a living").

Coll manages to weave his research into a narrative that sometimes has the feel of a Tom Clancy novel yet never crosses into excess.

While comprehensive, Coll's book may be hard going for those looking for a direct account of the events leading to the 9-11 attacks.

The CIA's 1998 engagement with bin Laden as a target for capture begins a full two-thirds of the way into Ghost Wars, only after a lengthy march through developments during the Carter, Reagan, and early Clinton Presidencies.

But this is not a critique of Coll's efforts; just a warning that some stamina is required to keep up.

Ghost Wars is a complex study of intelligence operations and an invaluable resource for those seeking a nuanced understanding of how a small band of extremists rose to inflict incalculable damage on American soil.

--Patrick O'Kelley

My reference to the abstract, negative, concrete is from my definition link to Wikipedia for the Hegelian Dialectic.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Dialectic : Hegelian Dialectic

Hegelian dialectic, usually presented in a three-fold manner, was stated by Heinrich Moritz Chalybäus as comprising three dialectical stages of development: a thesis, giving rise to its reaction, an antithesis, which contradicts or negates the thesis, and the tension between the two being resolved by means of a synthesis.

Although this model is often named after Hegel, he himself never used that specific formulation.

Hegel ascribed that terminology to Kant.

Carrying on Kant's work, Fichte greatly elaborated on the synthesis model, and popularized it.

On the other hand, Hegel did use a three-valued logical model that is very similar to the antithesis model, but Hegel's most usual terms were: Abstract-Negative-Concrete.

Sometimes Hegel would use the terms, Immediate-Mediated-Concrete.

Hegel used these terms hundreds of times throughout his works.

The formula, Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis, does not explain why the Thesis requires an Antithesis.

However, the formula, Abstract-Negative-Concrete, suggests a flaw in any initial thesis—it is too abstract and lacks the negative of trial, error and experience.

The same applies to the formula, Immediate-Mediated-Concrete.

For Hegel, the Concrete, the Synthesis, the Absolute, must always pass through the phase of the Negative, that is, Mediation.

This is the actual essence of what is popularly called Hegelian Dialectics.

To describe the activity of overcoming the negative, Hegel also often used the term Aufhebung, variously translated into English as "sublation" or "overcoming," to conceive of the working of the dialectic. Roughly, the term indicates preserving the useful portion of an idea, thing, society, etc., while moving beyond its limitations.

(Jacques Derrida's preferred French translation of the term was relever).

In the Logic, for instance, Hegel describes a dialectic of existence: first, existence must be posited as pure Being (Sein); but pure Being, upon examination, is found to be indistinguishable from Nothing (Nichts).

When it is realized that what is coming into being is, at the same time, also returning to nothing (in life, for example, one's living is also a dying), both Being and Nothing are united as Becoming.

As in the Socratic dialectic, Hegel claimed to proceed by making implicit contradictions explicit: each stage of the process is the product of contradictions inherent or implicit in the preceding stage.

For Hegel, the whole of history is one tremendous dialectic, major stages of which chart a progression from self-alienation as slavery to self-unification and realization as the rational, constitutional state of free and equal citizens.

The Hegelian dialectic cannot be mechanically applied for any chosen thesis.

Critics argue that the selection of any antithesis, other than the logical negation of the thesis, is subjective.

Then, if the logical negation is used as the antithesis, there is no rigorous way to derive a synthesis.

In practice, when an antithesis is selected to suit the user's subjective purpose, the resulting "contradictions" are rhetorical, not logical, and the resulting synthesis is not rigorously defensible against a multitude of other possible syntheses.

The problem with the Fichtean "Thesis-Antithesis-Synthesis" model is that it implies that contradictions or negations come from outside of things.

Hegel's point is that they are inherent in and internal to things.

This conception of dialectics derives ultimately from Heraclitus.

Hegel has outlined that the purpose of dialectics is "to study things in their own being and movement and thus to demonstrate the finitude of the partial categories of understanding"

One important dialectical principle for Hegel is the transition from quantity to quality, which he terms the Measure.

The measure is the qualitative quantum, the quantum is the existence of quantity.

"The identity between quantity and quality, which is found in Measure, is at first only implicit, and not yet explicitly realised.

In other words, these two categories, which unite in Measure, each claim an independent authority.

On the one hand, the quantitative features of existence may be altered, without affecting its quality.

On the other hand, this increase and diminution, immaterial though it be, has its limit, by exceeding which the quality suffers change.

[...] But if the quantity present in measure exceeds a certain limit, the quality corresponding to it is also put in abeyance.

This however is not a negation of quality altogether, but only of this definite quality, the place of which is at once occupied by another.

This process of measure, which appears alternately as a mere change in quantity, and then as a sudden revulsion of quantity into quality, may be envisaged under the figure of a nodal (knotted) line".

As an example, Hegel mentions the states of aggregation of water:

"Thus the temperature of water is, in the first place, a point of no consequence in respect of its liquidity: still with the increase or diminution of the temperature of the liquid water, there comes a point where this state of cohesion suffers a qualitative change, and the water is converted into steam or ice".

As other examples Hegel mentions the reaching of a point where a single additional grain makes a heap of wheat; or where the bald-tail is produced, if we continue plucking out single hairs.

Another important principle for Hegel is the negation of the negation, which he also terms Aufhebung (sublation): Something is only what it is in its relation to another, but by the negation of the negation this something incorporates the other into itself.

The dialectical movement involves two moments that negate each other, a somewhat and an another.

As a result of the negation of the negation, "something becomes an other; this other is itself somewhat; therefore it likewise becomes an other, and so on ad infinitum".

Something in its passage into other only joins with itself, it is self-related.

In becoming there are two moments: coming-to-be and ceasing-to-be: by sublation, i.e. negation of the negation, being passes over into nothing, it ceases to be, but something new shows up, is coming to be.

What is sublated (aufgehoben) on the one hand ceases to be and is put to an end, but on the other hand it is preserved and maintained.

In dialectics, a totality transform itself, it is self-related.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


You make a lot of good points.

I have wonder from the start how sincere they were about catching.

So far, the urgency isn't there.

Will check out your thread.

reply to post by zeuseadam

There is also a whose who of the rich and elite of the world horses are not cheap especially show horses.. the king of Dubai , Michale schumaker(his friends are andies friends and they are sheik Mohammads friends)for example..

I admit that there are some high profile connection among the elite. But I have a hard time understanding how horses unite. I would assume that these elites would also be connected through other adventures.

As for the reward, can you give me one solid name of a person you turned?

How much of that reward money do you feel you should have gotten?

reply to post by jam321


Id is on th internet about the neo Nazi terror bust in Belgium. The bad guys even admitted I turned them in a full two years before. Even a part of a reward, or any form of justice other than the reality of my situation. And the horse thing must have worked pretty good could you imagine the look on some terrorist that went to a barn to buy a horse and instead met the rendition people? Very surprised I would say.

In 2004, Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.) visited Pakistan to assess why Rewards for Justice had generated so little information regarding al-Qaeda's leadership. He discovered that the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad had effectively shut down the program. There was no radio or television advertising. The embassy had even stopped giving away matchbooks adorned with photos of al-Qaeda chiefs such as bin Laden.

"We were at zero," Kirk said. "I couldn't believe it."

According to Kirk, embassy officials said they were consumed with broader priorities, such as assisting U.S. troops in Afghanistan, easing tensions between India and Pakistan and containing the spread of Islamic radicalism in the region.

The only publicly confirmed award connected to al-Qaeda was granted in January. A Minnesota flight instructor, Clarence Prevost, received $5 million from Rewards for Justice for serving as a witness in the 2006 trial of Zacarias Moussaoui.

kirk.house.gov...

Originally posted by jam321

In 2004, Rep. Mark Steven Kirk (R-Ill.) visited Pakistan to assess why Rewards for Justice had generated so little information regarding al-Qaeda's leadership. He discovered that the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad had effectively shut down the program. There was no radio or television advertising. The embassy had even stopped giving away matchbooks adorned with photos of al-Qaeda chiefs such as bin Laden.

"We were at zero," Kirk said. "I couldn't believe it."

According to Kirk, embassy officials said they were consumed with broader priorities, such as assisting U.S. troops in Afghanistan, easing tensions between India and Pakistan and containing the spread of Islamic radicalism in the region.

The only publicly confirmed award connected to al-Qaeda was granted in January. A Minnesota flight instructor, Clarence Prevost, received $5 million from Rewards for Justice for serving as a witness in the 2006 trial of Zacarias Moussaoui.

kirk.house.gov...

Absolutely none of that surprises me in the least.

Do you know why?

Because I've read many books on the topic of political cover-ups.

It comes down a political turf struggle, political back-stabbing, usually done through covert means with special meetings, hiding under the guise of the false premise that our nation is threatened under "National Security" is threatened due to exposing the facts.

In other words, what will be uncovered, will uncover a crime, which will embarrass and inconvenience someone in power, past, present, or future.

An example, although it's not directly related to this specific topic, is a fascinating book, that is indirectly linked to my premise of the cover-up phase.

"The Underground Empire : Where Crimes and Governments Embrace"

The Underground Empire: Where Crime and Governments Embrace

Excerpt of James Mills Book : Underground Empire

The author, writing about a covert action group, called Centac (Central Tactical Unit), follows the man cracking and busting drug empires across many continents, only to be sidelined, backstabbed, and politically shut down by both the C.I.A. and F.B.I.

The book follows three particular criminal empires, connected to the United States, Hong Kong, Tiajuana, Mexico, and South America over a span of years, successfully shutting down two out of three, the third linking back to Hong Kong was when the entire operation of Centac was put on the chopping block, torn apart, and pushed around to different departments, not because they were successful, but to bury them in bureaucracy.

In other words, they were too successful, uncovering too many connections, and a direct threat to the C.I.A. and showing up the F.B.I.

I side with Centac, shut the bastards down, period, do not allow the smuggling in of drugs onto our streets through cut-outs provided with power via the C.I.A., only to give the D.E.A. a reason to exist, it's complete crap, and only keeping up with Air America.

BIGGIES, BUREAUCRATS AND THE WORLD DRUG TRADE

Congressional Record : A Tangled Web: A History of CIA Complicity in Drug International Trafficking

Here's where it is semi-related directly, but as well indirectly, in that my previous post mentioning Osama bin Laden and the Mujahideen connections, the Middle East is rife with drugs because hashish is prevalent in their society, and within that book it does link back eventually to the Middle East, but the author never follows that because of the operations Centact was doing got shut down.

So, the War on Drugs, is a farce, the War on Terror, is a farce, and war itself it nothing more than the extension of policy when politicians fail to do their job, or when they are actually complicit through inaction.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]