Unholy row over New Zealand Mary and Joseph billboard

Unholy row over New Zealand Mary and Joseph billboard

news.bbc.co.uk

The billboard is intended to challenge the stereotypes of the Christmas conception story, but it has been described as offensive to Christians

A dejected-looking Joseph lies in bed next to Mary under the caption, "Poor Joseph. God was a hard act to follow".

St Matthew-in-the-City Church in Auckland, which erected the billboard, said it had intended to provoke debate.

But the Catholic Church, among others, has condemned it as "inappropriate" and "disrespectful".

Within hours of its

(visit the link for the full news article)

"Our Christian tradition of 2,000 years is that Mary remains a virgin and that Jesus is the son of God, not Joseph," she told the New Zealand Herald. "Such a poster is inappropriate and disrespectful."

Basically that means that it's been tradition for 2K years so why start thinking now?

Can someone post the image in this thread, i had problems doing so.

What do you guys think of the image?

news.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

Ahh, saw this on the news tonight. Didn't seem international worthy. I will probably find a lot of Kiwis couldn't care less. Unless faith/media dictates that they have to care.

the bit that gets me the most about that article is,

"To confront children and families with the concept as a street billboard is completely irresponsible and unnecessary,"

I think there are far worse images on T.V, in news papers, magazines, or on other bill boards than this. My fair country is just getting to PC.

I think I'm more worried about an arising segregation between the Maoris and Pakeha dictated by the media and the government than this.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


As a catholic i say so what, let them believe what they want.

Ego maniacs, did that poster.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/38dc3a93edc1.jpg[/atsimg]

As requested.

Originally posted by lepracornman
I think I'm more worried about an arising segregation between the Maoris and Pakeha dictated by the media and the government than this.

"Pakeha"?

To be honest, I find it kind of humorous. If my (very religious) mother had sent it to me in the form of a Christian-to-Christian funny email, I would find it very clever. Believe it or not, Christians do have a sense of humor.

The only problem I have with it is the fact it was more of a statement than something meant to be funny. And that is, yet another attack by liberal Christians on fundamental Christianity. (Note: the term 'liberal Christianity' does not mean the same thing it does in politics. 'Liberal Christianity' simply means the segment of Christian theology that does not believe in the literal nature of things like Jesus' deity, the virgin birth, the resurrection, etc.).

So, sure. That's funny. 'God is a tough act to follow.' But the antagonistic message of it is not. We don't believe God had sex with Mary so the absurdity is what makes it funny. But when it gets politicized, it's not. That's the best way I can explain it.

[edit on 12/17/2009 by AshleyD]

Literally for Gods sake

GET OVER YOURSELVES.

Its a picture

It's true though. If i had been Joseph I'm not sure if I'd of been pleased with my girlfriend having sexual intercourse with a super human being , no matter what the outcome.

I agree with AshleyD in regards to how antaganistic it is.
People need to start worrying about their own beliefs instead of picking on others beliefs.
There is no one belief system that is better then another so why bother?
Its counterproductive and only produces animosity.
If this is just to jab at Christians then I think it is time that was not well spent.
I would say the same if it was a Muslim type pic or any other jab towards others beliefs.

reply to post by blueorder


It's what the Maoris call us white folk over here. I believe the word comes from another word which means human who came from sea from another place perhaps? European settlers etc. But thats another thread, another story good sir. The Maori have a very interesting lore and mythology.

ON topic: Yes, good responses, from all walks of life. I'm glad that none of you have to witness to bore of the media in New Zealand, pecking away at petty things like this. It's a real dulling affect on the populous. Especially the ones who do not read a newspaper everyday. But I guess this motto still rings true. "New Zealand: Take it easy mate."

reply to post by ModernAcademia


As I said here....

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Catholics have a lot of nerve criticizing anyone when they have covered up rampant pedophilia and child abuse in the church.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

Truly I thought the picture was a bit funny; however I guess I was a bit slow as I failed to see anything remotely about Christmas or what it meant in the picture. Even after reading the story I still don't see what it has to do with the meaning of Christmas.

I suppose it was meant to be an anagram about the immaculate conception, and an attempt to create thought, but unfortunately Christmas was the furtherest thing from my mind while looking at the picture. Thoughts were more along the lines of what AshleyD was saying.

Heh kinda find it odd that this made it onto ATS...

Personally being somewhat religious from a religious background I just dont see what people have against or for it really. Its no Mary in a condom (and even that I found that particular furor to be actually a sculpture that if you thought about it brought up some interesting points.

Really I guess the only thing the negative ninnies are complaining about is it shows Jesus mother and father afterwards and links god in someway with sex... I mean, as if they wouldnt, even just a few times during their marriage, hell given Jesus had siblings (unless your of roman catholic belief ) so they did the horizontal lambada at least more than once ... and given that god gave us the bits and pieces... why look on them and their use as somehow bad.

To me its just a bunch of tightwads getting holier than though over something so trivial it beggars belief they are even wasting energy complaining over it... its funny some idiot defaced the billboard, since talk about a show of religious freedom.

Heck, I even thought the whole south park virgin Mary bleeding episode the catholic Church tried to get stopped from airing over here ridiculous... their so damn jumpy about the sacred they completely miss the message such 'things' are putting forward.

Considering it was done by a damn christian church to begin with and not some anti-christian group or organization, its more or less one christian 'faction' having a tiz at some other they disagree with.

[edit on 17-12-2009 by BigfootNZ]

To suggest that vandalizing and defacing one's beliefs somehow falls under a religious freedom is rediculous. I would say it falls more under the category of hate crimes. To suggest that some people are over reacting is a merritless statement, maybe you could use an example regarding one's self ( like, say, I wouldn't be upset if my mother was portrayed as being into beastiality or maybe that your father could be your brother and your uncle), you know, something to show how light hearted and humorous you are, and then put it on a billboard.
It's odd how the guys slinging the mud cry foul. I would ask that you would have the same respect, when speaking of my Lord and his mother, that you would expect when someone were to speak of your mother or your wife.
I am just a good Christian that would expect that the same courtesy and respect that I would extend to those of different beliefs or faiths, was extended back to me.

Why are they still being depicted with light skin????

Shouldnt they be quite a bit more arab looking?????

This is just another example of what those leeches upon society, the advertising people, do.

Their job is to create the desire for some product, when no-one actually needs that product.

They have a "blue skies think tank" - they are usually hungover or drugged out - people say the most stupid things - then they make a campaign and heaps of money.

This is offensive to a lot of people, I imagine, and look out if God is real, you smart advertising agency!

By the way, I do know what I am talking about here.

Honestly I don't understand how the church that put the billboard up thought that it was going to make people think more about what Christmas is all about. I don't see anything pertaining to Christmas in that picture, all I see is someone trying to infer that God and Mary had a physical sexual encounter and Joseph can't measure up to God, which has nothing to do with Christmas.

The picture itself though doesn't offend me, I saw the picture before I read the article and I thought it was funny. I don't like what they're trying to infer, but to each his own.

I take more offence with this statement.....

"Our Christian tradition of 2,000 years is that Mary remains a virgin and that Jesus is the son of God, not Joseph," she told the New Zealand Herald.

Perhaps she should have said, our Catholic tradition. Not all Christians are Catholics, and not all Christians believe that Mary was forever a virgin. It's completely unrealistic to believe that the woman was married and she never had sex with her husband. And that billboard does not suggest that Joseph was the father of Jesus.



Edit for link....

news.bbc.co.uk...

[edit on 12/19/2009 by chise61]

Im christian, and i thought it was funny... But then again i have a sense of humour....... Its just a pic, some people need to get a life

quote from the archdeacon

"Is it about a spiritual male God sending down sperm so a child would be born, or is it about the power of love in our midst as seen in Jesus?"

just from this quote he sounds really messed up and very unfit to lead any flock of christians. since when do church "leaders" spend their time on analyzing how god achieved immaculate conception through mary?calling god spiritual in itself is blasphemous; and "sending down sperm", he has real issues with science and sexuality: and it looks like he has a venue and revenue to express this at the time of the year that is dedicated to the immaculate conception and all of its mysteries.

quote from catholic dioceses spokesperson

"Our Christian tradition of 2,000 years is that Mary remains a virgin and that Jesus is the son of God, not Joseph,"

she sounds confused and needs to freshen up on her liturgy.the immaculate conception is greater than 2000 years old.people like the deacon mentioned before are the reason for a false presentation of marys virtue when sex as being a defilement must have been an issue surrounding any legitimacy to jesus being an heir to a holy kingdom.and why did she mention joseph?just because he is in the picture?she should have mentioned the only tenet that is associated with christianity and jesus god and mary.

the third person who speaks on the issue takes the cake; here is her quote
a family first advocate in nz.

"To confront children and families with the concept as a street billboard is completely irresponsible and unnecessary,"

what does he know about the immaculate conception and how babies are con-cieved that the church doesn't/does know?how is he an advocate for families first and finds a billboard with two people in a bed and a quote about one mans inadequacies in comparison to god harmfull to families first? if he is an advocate for a group that is not the church, how does he find the expression of a bed a man and a woman and the word god harmful to families, what policies is he advocating for the people of nz?