What is wrong with the ATS membership right now ? !!

Mysteries and secrets have been around since the beginning of time, if we had the experts at ATS there when the questions were first asked, they would have been defused within a day. No more mystery of the pyramids etc, there have been many OPINIONS on these mysteries, by some of the greatest minds on Earth over the years, but one personal opinion does not solve a mystery, NO-ONE knows it ALL and can spout off a solution instantly, only a Spin Doctor.

Let's see here...

) Attention spans continued to be shattered by a general blitz of media overload and lord knows what else (chemicals?).

2) The lingo on the net is becoming similar to Orwell's "Newspeak," an abbreviated form of communication designed to limit thought through reduction of vocabulary. Sound familiar? ("lol rotflmao epic do0d")

3) Screeching and thundering simplistic views is seen as strength, while engaging in nuanced, measureed arguments is seen as a form of weakness ("The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passsionate intensitiy" -W.B. Yeats)

4) Concurrent with the breakdown in any sense of physical community, people are becoming cranky, arrogant, unable to interact politely, and utterly self-absorbed, both on the streets and on the net.

In other words, TBTB's plans to dumb down the public and shatter any possible resistance are going swimmingly.

[edit on 12/13/09 by silent thunder]

reply to post by Dagar


They are loonies if they don't back up their claims with logical explanations.

Then they need to be more specific. And they shouldn't start a new thread for that.

I have pointed their flaws out. They simply ignore it all because it doesn't support the Flying-Spaghettimonster theory.
There's still one member who constantly says that the russians tested their missile over Norway. While in reality it all happened over the White Sea or the Barentsz Sea. Several members have pointed out that the spiral did not appear over Norway. It was seen on the horizon not overhead.

I agree with what you're saying in your OP.

I have been a member for about 1 year now, and just yesterday, I added my FIRST foe and my ignore list.

Hopefully, I won't have to add any more.

reply to post by DGFenrir


We are not talking about the occasional skeptic who needs evidence to be convinced. We are talking about the people who join ats *to argue for the sake of arguing* against any given conspiracy.

We are talking about people with *dishonest intentions*! Yes they are not always easy to spot but people who frequent ATS on a more-or-less frequent basis know them for who they are. I don't know how much proof you need to understand that and singling out people by name is silly and/or pointless.

reply to post by DGFenrir


Calling people loonies Im afraid does nothing for your own credibility. Also, pointing out their flaws is not learning anyone, merely creating your own importance. especially if you dont have the evidence to back up your claim that their views are flawed.

Me personally I have yet to see any proof that the spiral in Norway was a missile. I have seen evidence based on probablility but that is not safe evidence.

Respects

Originally posted by Teeky
reply to post by Demoncreeper

 

That's not true because people here seem to fond of Phage.
There's a difference between a debunker and using logic to analyze a theory.

[edit on 13-12-2009 by Teeky]

T'is a good statement for sure.
Phage has been called every one of those names and more, though.

Originally posted by captiva
I have been a willing contributer to ATS and have learned so much in my nearly 2 years membership.

In the last 2 months I have noted an increase in what some call debunkers which has culminated in a lack of courtesy and downride rudeness in the posts since Thursday and the Norway spiral.

I note also that denying ignorance is being used as a banner when ideas dont agree with some posters. This is not the ATS I know, or have known.


[edit on 12-12-2009 by captiva]

Dear friend..
Are you kidding yourself?
People got bored! I really admire those people courage. The ones that try to use some leveled thought, some logic for a change.
Look around you!
This site is becoming another Godlikeproductions-dot-com
Like how many of those do we really need?
What happened to reasonable thinking? Ok this is a conspiracy site but then again SO WHAT? Should the conspiracy realm be handed out to the complete idiots?

Should we surrender everything to the stupidity and become a NEW DARK AGE?
Concerning the Norway Spiral issue. Why everything has to be the end of the world, Nibiru, 2012, the aliens that are coming to eat us etc etc??
I understand that Christmas are coming and once more, like every year the last decade, we simply MUST have a flavor of the recent gloom and doom about the end of the world. I mean ,we MUST?! Like everyone should be forced feed to this!?
Should we interpret everything out of the ordinary like being an end of the world sign? Should common sense be banished? Should logic be thrown out of the window?
Well I say enough! Enough with the crap.


Go debunkers!

Originally posted by captiva
I have been a willing contributer to ATS and have learned so much in my nearly 2 years membership.

In the last 2 months I have noted an increase in what some call debunkers which has culminated in a lack of courtesy and downride rudeness in the posts since Thursday and the Norway spiral.

I note also that denying ignorance is being used as a banner when ideas dont agree with some posters. This is not the ATS I know, or have known.

Sure, some ideas are off the wall, heck Im privy to some of my own, but like many others in here I would not take kindly to remarks such as " go light your bong" , and many other discouraging remarks being banded about these last few days.

Maybe we are closer to finding out the truth about the spiral, the mothership and D4rK N1ghtes prophesy, as Ive also noted some of those being rude seem to have joined the membership today, yesterday just in time to derail and debunk some realy important threads.

Some things to remember. Ignore those who try to anger you, stay on track in the threads and use your brain while in debate, not your venom.

There is an "Ignore" option. Use it if need be and dont get caught up in the mish-mash of diffirent derailing tactics.

I personally feel that we are close to a breakthrough in some realy important topics that have been raised time and time again in the last 6 months. Please remember why we joined this freedom of information movement that is ATS and let others ideas contribute to your own. Everyone has something to offer and we all have something to learn.

Respects

[edit on 12-12-2009 by captiva]

I agree with you BUT what if:

1. The person is lying and you know it. You have a signed-off official document in front of you that is NOT what the poster has said and says they have read same document?

2. People simply refuse to read in depth data! (This is why tabloids are popular since articles are limited the attention span of the reader). In depth (and necessary) analyses are several a4 pages long!

3. There is a well known human reaction it goes like this : once somebody has a belief in "something" then that person will refuse to acknowledge all evidence that shows that that belief is wrong. So what do we do? Let that person carry on pretending their belief is correct which will only make those who know neither side of a belief/argument to believe in the one being portrayed....won't it?

ATS has change from a site where people could DEBATE to one where he/she who can persist with lies wins the argument. It is ironic that those people with narrow tunnel vision ideas have the "time" to write reams and reams of drivel! Those with lives to live outside of the internet (DUH) don't.

One must take the rough with the smooth.

One must allow ALL people their 'opinions'.

If we do not then we are as guilty as the PTB websites (Fox News etc.) that currently exist.

Hopefully, ATS members are able to screen the crap and ignore the rubbish responses that appear from time to time.

After all, cynics give us ALL a baseline from which to base our perspectives from.

Without that baseline, surely arn't we all simply fishing for answers and are guilty of allowing acceptance of EVERY cock and bull story to be allowed entry to ATS??

What has been lost recently is NOT that more and more 'debunkers' are joining and posting replies - what has been lost is that the more knowledgable of Members are simply sitting back and ALLOWING the BS debunkers to take control.

Don't moan about htis post. Don't CRITICISE this post.

Read it and accept what is said as truth.

I've read EVERY single post on this website and Yes, idiot BS'ing posters are prevailing moreso recently than ever.

THIS is the time we need more INFORMED opinions.

Not simply the "Oh Yes, I have seen a video on YOUTUBE from Somewhere in South America that shows a REAL UFO" but a REASONED argument - for example, along the lines that "MOST YOUTUBE videos from South America wouls appear to be clearly hoaxes - however, that does NOT mean that all UFO's ARE hoaxes..."

Judgement people...

Informed Judgement is what we need...

Otherwise, ATS will simply descend into being the next national Enquirer.

Think about it Fools....

Originally posted by Qwenn
What really leads me to distraction is when a member posts something like " I reserve comment on this untill I hear what Phage has to say about it " or " where is Phage when you need him " . You should not need to be told what to think, isn`t that why you are here, to make your own minds up. If someone gives a rediculous solution to a problem, then as good as says " nothing to see here, move along " why do a lot of people say, " oh ***** has already PROVED that it is a ( whatever ) " . Nothing has been proved, only claimed. Why do some people still NEED to be told what to think ?

Maybe, just maybe Phage is actually checking the validity of the topic, analyzing the information him self and posting what he thinks to the topic, with the information he's gather and found?

Why does he have to be hated so much for doing what people ask?

People of this forum ask to do your own research and when someone does, you insult, belittle and call him a government debunker?

I mean honestly.

reply to post by Teki187


Some folks here don't want their theories debunked. They cling to them like some kind of life raft. That's why those people attack others who act rationally - rational minds are a dangerous thing when you value irrational thought.

reply to post by captiva


Well Captiva, your avatar says it all about the way you think...

You believe things simply because they are presented to you, without formulating a logical possible explanation for "whatever".

Since your mind is already setup to accept whatever is posted that supports your belief it's pointless to try to convince you otherwise...

There's a difference between having an open mind, and having a mind closed to rational thinking...

also hitting the ignore button would suggest that your argument isn't valid enough to debate...


[edit on 12/13/2009 by Brainiac]

reply to post by crichton13


"however, that does NOT mean that all UFO's ARE hoaxes..."

How do you know that? There is more probability to support that what you see is created by a person, than what your told you are seeing...

Magicians have been doing this since time began, Youtube is just the slight of hand for the 21st century...

reply to post by spacebot

Dear friend..
Are you kidding yourself?
People got bored! I really admire those people courage. The ones that try to use some leveled thought, some logic for a change.
Look around you!
This site is becoming another Godlikeproductions-dot-com
Like how many of those do we really need?
What happened to reasonable thinking? Ok this is a conspiracy site but then again SO WHAT? Should the conspiracy realm be handed out to the complete idiots?

Should we surrender everything to the stupidity and become a NEW DARK AGE?
Concerning the Norway Spiral issue. Why everything has to be the end of the world, Nibiru, 2012, the aliens that are coming to eat us etc etc??
I understand that Christmas are coming and once more, like every year the last decade, we simply MUST have a flavor of the recent gloom and doom about the end of the world. I mean ,we MUST?! Like everyone should be forced feed to this!?
Should we interpret everything out of the ordinary like being an end of the world sign? Should common sense be banished? Should logic be thrown out of the window?
Well I say enough! Enough with the crap.


Go debunkers!

I think this is just the sort of post captiva was referring to. While you claim to praise logic, your post did not seem to use much, if any, logic. Rather than present anything resembling a reasoned argument you just seemed to think this was your opportunity to gush about your feelings. I don't think I found a single syllogism in your entire post. I've noticed that same phenomena with many of the most vehement dubunkers; their posts are often not much more than rambling gibberish about feelings of animosity to anyone posting in support of the sort of subjects that this site was created to address.

So here's my syllogism: We are here on ATS for the purpose of searching for knowledge. Epistemologically useless terms such as "idiots", "tin hat wearers", "lunatics", "pseudo-scientist", "quack" etc. only interfere with our quest for knowledge. Therefore those debunkers that engage in ridicule attacks spewing forth epistemologically useless terms are interfering with the reason why members are on on this site in the first place.

reply to post by spacebot


and that's why you have people like me here...

I'm a skeptic

I'm not going to state that a "video" i watch is an Alien space craft!

-The first thing I'm going to think is, hmm something flying in the air on Earth, with lights...
You know we've been flying things in the air since 1908 or so, and we've been putting lights on things in the air as far as we've had the ability...

Now you show me a video of a flying object from say 1930 displaying some non-ballistic movements and i'd still be skeptical, but i'd be one step closer to interest in it, than something made with the technical wizardry software available today...

There are even people capable of building and flying their own Model Jet Engines... Now with this much engineering ability in the hands of your common person, do you really put belief in what you watch on Youtube???

reply to post by captiva


I frequent some other forums but never see the sort of fanatical hostility that seems to be occurring increasingly on this site. The forums I do visit and where civility is the norm are both diy sites; one about repairing the particular make of car I own and the other about my hobby of building your own loudspeakers. Well it occurred to me that the powers that be probably have no vested interest in whether the prevailing belief is that my car wont start because of bad ignition module or fuel injector. The ruling elite probably don't care either whether horn loaded or direct radiator loudspeakers are more popular. As a result there's no need to send paid trolls to lambaste and ridicule someone just because a member is suggesting an unorthodox loudspeaker design; 'they', whoever 'they' are, don't care because it doesn't effect their master plans and it doesn't reveal their secrets. Here on ATS we are probably revealing secrets that the ruling elite do not want us plebeians to posses as that would threaten their power and sense of superiority over us, the great unwashed.

reply to post by QtheQ


I doubt you get many people in your DIY forum saying they can stick breeze blocks to walls using their mind, or that they made speakers out of alien legs. That's the kind of irrational behaviour and beliefs we have to deal with here, and so you can imagine when people call these folks out on their beliefs, tempers get a little heated.

The number of plainly irrational folks on this board is simply staggering. They believe without evidence first, then expect others to show evidence as to why their beliefs are wrong. They elevate hypotheses to the level of laws, and attack people criticising their lack of rational thought.

ATS is frequently a powder keg waiting to go off. The latest Norway missile test is a great example of that. Lots of evidence showing how it is was a failed missile launch, yet folks still insist on believing it to be something else, even when all the evidence is right in front of their faces.

I have no problem with debunkers or people whose opinions differ from my own... To be honest I think it’s needed and healthy for this site. The main problem for me is deliberate rudeness and attempts to derail topics.

Nothing wrong with saying...

"To me that looks more like a jet plane than a UFO"

However...

"Wooo... UFO... where’s my tin hat to protect me from your imaginary space ship"

Is not really acceptable in my opinion.

Personally I’m not a believer in UFO's (although my mind is open to the concept) but this site is somewhere that people can come and discuss such subjects... and i believe they should be able to discuss it without endless sarcasm and belligerence from non-believers.

At the end of the day... if you don’t believe in UFO's and have hostile feelings for those that do... what are you doing in the UFO section of this site???? Just stay away and leave them be... they aint hurting you are they??

Same applies to all topics!

I believe that this is what the OP was originally trying to address!?!

Originally posted by silent thunder
Let's see here...

) Attention spans continued to be shattered by a general blitz of media overload and lord knows what else (chemicals?).

2) The lingo on the net is becoming similar to Orwell's "Newspeak," an abbreviated form of communication designed to limit thought through reduction of vocabulary. Sound familiar? ("lol rotflmao epic do0d")

3) Screeching and thundering simplistic views is seen as strength, while engaging in nuanced, measureed arguments is seen as a form of weakness ("The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passsionate intensitiy" -W.B. Yeats)

4) Concurrent with the breakdown in any sense of physical community, people are becoming cranky, arrogant, unable to interact politely, and utterly self-absorbed, both on the streets and on the net.

In other words, TBTB's plans to dumb down the public and shatter any possible resistance are going swimmingly.

[edit on 12/13/09 by silent thunder]

Excellent excellent excellent...

Glad to see you still hitting that nail firmly on the head


TPTB are dumbing us down... and what a great job of it they are doing!!

Star for you