Tension high between British, US military

reply to post by blueorder


The problem with most present day analysts is trying to toe hold the US into a an Empire status, The US ruled by word of mouth and commerce not by holding land.


Hence we will not go the way as others previous

Originally posted by SLAYER69
The problem with most present day analysts is trying to toe hold the US into a an Empire status, The US ruled by word of mouth and commerce not by holding land.


Hence we will not go the way as others previous

Depends on one's definition of "holding" land- for example the British in Sudan only had a few thousand administrative staff and not much of an army in charge of millions- similarly US administrative staff and armed bases are dotted across the globe- more sublte perhaps (not always) but it is the same idea.

As for not going the way of others, it is already happening, Obama knows it, hence he does not lecture China about their pathetic one party communist state, because they are one of the new emergent empires

reply to post by blueorder


True...

Obama

Has a choice, He'll either continue to knuckle under to improve world opinion of the US or have to release higher technology. Iraq's oil has already been contracted to China and BP. Pay attention to other developments.

The United States to Allow More Hi-Tech Exports to China

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by blueorder

 

True...

Obama

Has a choice, He'll either continue to knuckle under to improve world opinion of the US or have to release higher technology. Iraq's oil has already been contracted to China and BP. Pay attention to other developments.

The United States to Allow More Hi-Tech Exports to China

THough I think the American star is waning, I much prefer a US empire to the one offered by China............

I feel the relationship between the Uk and USA has become very one sided, with the Americans often looking with contempt upon us and quite often treating us like dirt.

Britain isn't as powerful militarily as the United States, but that doesn't mean our armed forces deserve to be ignored or treated with less respect. Many people in Britain want our troops pulled out of Afghanistan. We don't enjoy paying the price in blood for America's Middle Eastern adventures. The fact we are fighting and dying along with many other coalition forces should not be so easily dismissed.

Britain might have more experience in counter-insurgency warfare, but we don't know everything. We do make mistakes. But would it not be in America's best interest to perhaps listen to the opinions of her so called "Ally" once in a while?

Originally posted by Kram09
I feel the relationship between the Uk and USA has become very one sided, with the Americans often looking with contempt upon us and quite often treating us like dirt.

Britain isn't as powerful militarily as the United States, but that doesn't mean our armed forces deserve to be ignored or treated with less respect. Many people in Britain want our troops pulled out of Afghanistan. We don't enjoy paying the price in blood for America's Middle Eastern adventures. The fact we are fighting and dying along with many other coalition forces should not be so easily dismissed.

Britain might have more experience in counter-insurgency warfare, but we don't know everything. We do make mistakes. But would it not be in America's best interest to perhaps listen to the opinions of her so called "Ally" once in a while?

the point is it has been like that for years, there wasn't even a "special relationship" in WW2- our politicians use the phrase to try and assuage people that our troops should be dying and US politicans use the phrase to help their UK lackeys sell use of the troops to aid the Iraqi/Afghani excursions being phrased as "international" or "coalition" ventures

Originally posted by blueorder
THough I think the American star is waning, I much prefer a US empire to the one offered by China............

The US aint going anywhere...

We just have to move over and make room at the table. A dual global power is nothing new. Think of 18th or 19th century but friendlier.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
The US aint going anywhere...

We just have to move over and make room at the table. A dual global power is nothing new. Think of 18th or 19th century but friendlier.

I think the US will ultimately decline for various reasons, not least of which is it's increasing "diversity" and a lack of homogenousity that will assist national interest- ok the US has never been a unified nation culturally or racially, but the last 20 years have seen that difference become even more deep seated.


China knows this, hence she operates on a strict one nation one culture basis, and though, in theory, there are many different cultures in China, they are not permitted to flourish.


Diversity is never a strength in terms of national interest, regardless of what the liberals suggest

[edit on 26-11-2009 by blueorder]

Originally posted by blueorder

Originally posted by SLAYER69
The US aint going anywhere...

We just have to move over and make room at the table. A dual global power is nothing new. Think of 18th or 19th century but friendlier.

I think the US will ultimately decline for various reasons, not least of which is it's increasing "diversity" and a lack of homogenousity that will assist national interest- ok the US has never been a unified nation culturally or racially, but the last 20 years have seen that difference become even more deep seated.


China knows this

Dont believe all the Crap About China.


Remember....

The present day government there is like what?
60 years young? Giving them credit for their ancient heritage is like giving the Egyptian Government Credit for the great pyramids.

Think about it...

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Dont believe all the Crap About China.

I only believe what I consider to be "non" crap about China

Remember....

The present day government there is like what?
60 years young? Giving them credit for their ancient heritage is like giving the Egyptian Government Credit for the great pyramids.

Think about it...

Not sure of the logic there, that is like someone in the UK suggesting 100 years ago not to fear the emergence of the US because of our well established liberal democracy- I am giving China "credit" in the sense that it will displace the US as the number one global force, and is well on the way to doing so- that being said it is not necessarily a good thing as it is a one party communist state, not exactly a positive

reply to post by blueorder


OK....
yeah ok whatever



We've seen this before in the 80s with Japan

Hi! I've spent five weeks in Ireland and England over the last six years.
Apples and bannanas, you can compare the fruits. Neither is the same.
They drive on the opposite sides of the road in UK, it's pay more get less,
they use recycling and wind energy more, no bathrooms or waste cans to be found, to the tourists its leave your money here and go home, if you ask a question they ask you a question with no answers, their museums portray the American revolution from a weird point of view. I think its time for everyone to grow up and move forward. Petty differences should be put aside for the greater good. America is made up of fifty different states that all have their own personalities too, you can't generalize it all into one thing either. It amazed me that a single Irish woman knew more about American politics than I did, I am usually taking care of other people and don't always watch the news. The fun thing about visiting was the unique differences, it was difficult but fun!

Originally posted by SLAYER69

OK....
yeah ok whatever

We've seen this before in the 80s with Japan

Japan in the 80s did not have the appetite for global influence and expansion that we can see with the CHinese beast (quite apart from the obvious gap in sheer population size to help facilitate such a move)

Originally posted by blueorder

Japan in the 80s did not have the appetite for global influence and expansion that we can see with the CHinese beast (quite apart from the obvious gap in sheer population size to help facilitate such a move)

Thats their weakness
Dont be fooled by skyscrapers
Time will tell....

Originally posted by PSUSA

The British are experts at this...we did have the world biggest Empire at one point, so dealing with upstart locals is something we know.

There is one notable exception to that.
We beat you twice, and saved you twice. That was the American people, not the empire that was created.

Beat us twice? Is this going to be another expose on the American Education system teaching it's Kids the US won the War of 1812? Even though Washington was razed to the ground and the White House destroyed? Ok, whatever chap.

And not sure about the "saving us twice" bit either. If it's WW1 you reckon is the first time, German was going to fall anyway by the time you guys showed up, it was a matter of attrition and the French/British were winning.

Ah, the good old American education system. Fantastic.

I think you guys are reading to much into this story... its not about Empire building... its about a couple of Generals with a generally over inflated ego and chips on their shoulders...

The Old If they don't to it my our way then their A holes... same thing happened back in WWI and II... still going on today... I wouldn't read more into it other than someone is pissed he didn't get equal press coverage

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by PSUSA

The British are experts at this...we did have the world biggest Empire at one point, so dealing with upstart locals is something we know.

There is one notable exception to that.
We beat you twice, and saved you twice. That was the American people, not the empire that was created.

Beat us twice? Is this going to be another expose on the American Education system teaching it's Kids the US won the War of 1812? Even though Washington was razed to the ground and the White House destroyed? Ok, whatever chap.

And not sure about the "saving us twice" bit either. If it's WW1 you reckon is the first time, German was going to fall anyway by the time you guys showed up, it was a matter of attrition and the French/British were winning.

Ah, the good old American education system. Fantastic.

U!!! S!!! A!!!!

We're #1 !!!!!!!!!!

Just kidding.



This would make an interesting topic though.

Originally posted by blueorder

Japan in the 80s did not have the appetite for global influence and expansion that we can see with the CHinese beast (quite apart from the obvious gap in sheer population size to help facilitate such a move)

What "appetite" would that be? What evidence do you see for this "appetite"? How would this alleged power be projected? When will they develop a military capable of enforcing anything at all external to their country?

Naw, I just can't see this Chinese lust for power you claim to see...

[edit on 2009/11/26 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by stumason You certainly don't deal with upstart locals by bombing them from 30,000 feet then sending in tanks.... They seem to resent that somewhat...

Now, now, Stu. Play nice with our American 'allies', or I'll take them away from you.

If I've said it once Stu, I've said it a thousand times! Sarcasm is lost on them, mate.

We Brits became the real world experts in COIN ops, having had such brilliant successes in Malaya, Borneo, Radfan, Aden and Oman.

And thanks to the hundreds of thousands of American Irish who supported the so called freedom fighters of the IRA, we became world leaders in domestic violence and learnt just how to deal with terrorists!

I've said it so many times about Iraq, that I am heartily sick and tired of repeating myself. You can only succeed in winning a COIN operation like Iraq if, you can win the hearts and minds of the local populace.

Wearing helmets, wrap around Raybans and chewing gum when dealing with locals, does little to garner trust or sympathy.

Your Arab is a proud person who prefers to make eye contact when dealing with each other or gun toting foreigners.

It is seeing another man's eyes that allows you to make a fairly good assumption whether or not you can trust someone.

You should read 'The Circit' by Bob Shepherd. No Yank BS, because he tells it like it was in Iraq and unfortunately how it is in Afghanistan.



[edit on 26-11-2009 by fritz]

reply to post by PSUSA[/url]

Before you can pick a fight with your mother and father, you must grow up or you'll just get a damned good spanking and get sent to bed.

And that my friend, is how we Brits view you Yanks.

Like a very naughty child who cannot get it's own way, so it throws it's toys out of the pram in a fit of temper.

Please remember that we Brits our your Mother and Father, your Uncle and your Aunts.

You left the warm bossum of this country to go far away and try to fend for yourselves. Yours is a relatively new country about 250 or so years old. In those terms, America is but a child on the world stage, albeit a very powerful child.

That America does some good throughout the world goes without saying.

But she also does tremendous damage to both herself and her friends and because of this, she sometimes needs a damn good smack to remind her that she is a child and that children cannot have everything they want.