SNP: Scotland could have airgun ban law within a year.

Well i wondered how long it would be before the great deciders took away air weapons from the UK. Granted it's only suggested for Scotland at the moment...

FIRST Minister Alex Salmond is intending to introduce legislation to ban airguns His preference is for legislation to be introduced at Holyrood, even though the gun laws are a reserved matter.

The question of gun crime has again reached the top of the political agenda after the Rhys Jones shooting.

His death has prompted ministers on both sides of the Border to refocus their efforts on tackling the weapons culture.

The SNP fought the last Holyrood election on a commitment to "repatriate" firearms legislation to Scotland.

Subsequent talks between the SNP Executive and the government led to UK ministers promising to consider a Scotland-only ban.


Source: SNP: Scotland could have airgun ban law within a year

Just another ban that will affect the good people of the country who treat airguns with the same respect as any other firearm, and not make a blind bit of difference to those who don't give a damn about the laws.

I put this in the survival forum because i know airguns are talked about a lot here. It's one of the few options left to us UKer's now. I would wager that this does indeed filter down to the whole of the UK within a few years.

I appreciate that there are lot of injuries caused by airguns, many unlawfull, but the same is true for many other things like sports. Do we ban those too?

I hear the faithfull spud-gun is next, i bet they are looking into placing restrictions of particularly hard potatoes.

CX.

PS: I would like to add, our government are idiots. The sooner they are replaced with people who know their arse from their elbow, the better.

Germany already banned all paintball guns.

Until we reach the point the kids and adults slaughter each other online in a first person shooter like modern warfare.

More control is what it's all about.

reply to post by CX

Just another ban that will affect the good people of the country who treat airguns with the same respect as any other firearm, and not make a blind bit of difference to those who don't give a damn about the laws.

Dude think for a minute - A dork parent allows a 12 year old to play with an air rifle, the dork kid decides to shoot his neighbors cat. Four doors down an elderly neighbor sees someone with a rifle shooting at her while she's hanging out the washing.

The police are called and they arrive with "real" guns, there is a very real risk of the kid getting shot and killed.

Recently mt friends' son one Saturday night had armed police storm into the house brandishing "real " guns ready to shoot and kill.

The kids neighbor had reported hearing gunfire, but it turns out she'd been hearing his XBox which was way too loud.

Although I've no objection to shooting clubs etc I fail to see the need to have guns, one incident of a little girl shooting he father in the face is one too many.

If you want to bug out then may I suggest making a bow and arrow, not as though there's much in the UK to hunt anyway. If your hungry hit a sheep with your car like everyone else.

Dude think for a minute - A dork parent allows a 12 year old to play with an air rifle, the dork kid decides to shoot his neighbors cat. Four doors down an elderly neighbor sees someone with a rifle shooting at her while she's hanging out the washing.

The police are called and they arrive with "real" guns, there is a very real risk of the kid getting shot and killed.

the above is not a valid reason to outlaw guns. this is a parenting issue and should not be the roots to outlaw anything except dork parenting. all guns both air and even cap guns come with a warning letting non-dork parents know that thier non-dork children should be using the gun with full adult attention and supervision and in a responsible manner. shooting the neighbor's cat is far from responsible, and again shows a lack of parenting.

Recently mt friends' son one Saturday night had armed police storm into the house brandishing "real " guns ready to shoot and kill.

The kids neighbor had reported hearing gunfire, but it turns out she'd been hearing his XBox which was way too loud.

again this is a parenting issue. there is absolutely no need to blast the television so loud that the neighbor thinks that there is actual gunfire going off. however, this being said, stuff happens. banning guns again will have zero effect on anyone playing xbox too loud, and police proceduers will not be more relaxed if guns are banned.

Although I've no objection to shooting clubs etc I fail to see the need to have guns, one incident of a little girl shooting he father in the face is one too many.

this is not the gun's fault. its the father's fault for allowing a loaded weapon to be accessible to his little girl. anyone with a smidgen of common sense will keep thier firearm locked away unloaded with a trigger lock, and if you keep one for home protection and to keep away robbers and such, keep it in a nightstand or drawer with child proof locks and the safety on and certainly you should not keep it loaded if you are placing it in a spot where your child can get to it.

wanna hear reasons why guns are needed everyday?

-robberies-
-car jackings-
-self defense-
-hunting-
-self defense while hunting-
-general criminal deterrant-

you must remember that criminals are not going to stop having guns because they are banned. they are after all criminals and it is in thier nature to break the law.

if your average mugger waits in an alleyway in a society where guns are not only legal, but common place, he has to make a clear decision to risk his/her life to attempt to make a petty score. in a society where guns are banned, the mugger can rest comfortably knowing that the worst thing he must defend himself against is a knife or maybe spray mace.



If you want to bug out then may I suggest making a bow and arrow, not as though there's much in the UK to hunt anyway. If your hungry hit a sheep with your car like everyone else.



yep. and the problem here is that the international comunity is also paying attention. i suppose i could say, there is no real need to hunt here because i can go to the grocer and get it all. sure i could. but there are basic survival skills that everyone should know and one of them is hunting. and a pre requisite for that is responsible firearm handling.


banning guns solves nothing. education and respect of the weapon and treating it carefully, and maintaining a safe weapon at all times is the key to safe guns.
oh and if you think that we oughta ban guns because of all the accidental deaths, then you cant stop there

OUTLAW PEANUTS!

thats right, there are more accidental deaths from the consumption of peanuts than the misuse of guns...

reply to post by moocowman


Thanks for the reply

I think you made an excellent point in your first sentence though.

Dude think for a minute - A dork parent allows a 12 year old to play with an air rifle

This is going to happen no matter how much we have strict shooting clubs and the likes. Like someone said, thats a parenting issue and a whole other thread in itself. I appreciate what you are saying though.

As for the survival thing, as i said i mentioned this article because we often talk about airguns here as a hunting weapon. No matter how accurate you are with a car, an airgun will provide a better option for hunting small game with a lot less damage.

Bugging out for me is becoming less of an ideal scenario, i am just more prepared here at home. Either way, a rabbit, a squirrel, a pigeon etc would be welcome wherever i was.

To be honest though, i didn't just write this thread from a survival angle. I would love to see airguns continue to be an easy home option for introducing a kid to backyard shooting.

Whether it's a home made range or whatever, it's always been one of those bonding things, giving your kid their first airgun. (At least for some).

CX.

reply to post by CX


In response to both yourself an caster, I do take your points ans to be honest the way 4caster puts it, well I want a gun myself.

Should I be walking through a dark place (or light place even) let's say with my kids in two, and a nutjob or bunch of hoodies appear bent upon ding me(us) harm.

I feel that I should I have gun I would pull it out and shoot the bastards whether they were armed or not. Is this excessive ? To be honest I don't think so I could be a wimp and physically unable to protect me or mine against would be assailants.

It is a hard one dude and I'm torn as to what opinion to form, nevertheless, I see no reason for air rifles other than air gun clubs as it would appear that most injuries or deaths involving airguns tend be related to kids, responsible or otherwise.

If we are going to have access to firearms, then let them be destructive, very destructive no(UK) junkie thug is going to be scared off by an air pistol. MY sticking a 44 magnum in the bastards face would surely help protect me and my kids and chances are lot's of other people from mister dick brain trying to attack us.

So, sorry to say i have to disagree guys IMHO air pistols simply don't seem to have a purpose.

Either we all have the right to bear arms or none at all, but if we are to have a law where no one bears arms then those that do should perhaps be shot in the face as a deterrent.

LOl I must have an angry streak in me this morning

reply to post by moocowman


I understand more what yoou are saying now. not so much that guns dont have a purpose, but that non lethal ones dont have a purpose. i completely see where you are coming from with this.


allow me to counter point if i may. airguns have the same purpose that video games and paintball and all that stuff do.

we humans are inherently violent creatures, and through sophistication and civilization we are able to overcome the urges that we have to just go apey on everyone and tear them apart limb from limb. also, who hasnt seen a good action movie with all the guns and what not and thought to themselves, man i would love to try that out if i wasnt gonna get killed doing it!

that is what airsoft does. it isnt lethal, but it hurts enough to let you know that you are hit. the guns can look and feel very realistic. it allows people to go out and shoot each other in a closed enviroment and do so with minimal risks, getting the violence out of the average person's system so to speak while at the same time providing a near sense of realism that you cant find without actually joining up with an organization and putting real lives on the line.

the only real operational purpose is that the airguns can be used to train individuals in combat and other firearms aspects without getting someone killed.... unecessarily that is.

If anyone in the UK wants to own guns, then # off to the US to shoot stuff there instead. Don't tell me it's all about shooting tin cans and plastic pigeons.... I know it's more about shooting defenceless animals; and kids shooting their brothers or sisters; that warrants the ban.

Aren't there enough real sports instead, or are we gonna' start calling knife throwing or streetfigting a worthy sport to protect and cherish as a national interest as well! Regardless of the way it influences youngsters to become more violent people!

If anyone suggests that it's video games that are the main cause - then they're only adding more incentives to ban the weapons that kids may decide to pick up and use!

IMO anyone in the public who wants to carry around a gun is either lacking intellectually, or lacking in the trouser department, and needs to overcompensate as a macho-sadist.

reply to post by moocowman

I feel that I should I have gun I would pull it out and shoot the bastards whether they were armed or not. Is this excessive ? To be honest I don't think so I could be a wimp and physically unable to protect me or mine against would be assailants.

I'm sorry, but carrying a gun or even a knife around with you will only increase the chances of you becoming hurt. These hoodies will more likely attack you if they feel they are in danger. Why not just avoid the dark alleys instead?

Originally posted by john124
If anyone in the UK wants to own guns, then # off to the US to shoot stuff there instead. Don't tell me it's all about shooting tin cans and plastic pigeons.... I know it's more about shooting defenceless animals; and kids shooting their brothers or sisters; that warrants the ban.

Aren't there enough real sports instead, or are we gonna' start calling knife throwing or streetfigting a worthy sport to protect and cherish as a national interest as well! Regardless of the way it influences youngsters to become more violent people!

If anyone suggests that it's video games that are the main cause - then they're only adding more incentives to ban the weapons that kids may decide to pick up and use!

IMO anyone in the public who wants to carry around a gun is either lacking intellectually, or lacking in the trouser department, and needs to overcompensate as a macho-sadist.

Oh... I can't help myself..

Hey, IMO anyone who is naive enough or to frightened (like scared little schoolgirls) to defend themselves, family and property is severely lacking intellectually and definitely lacking in the trouser department.

Your more scared of your law abiding neighbors than criminals and gangs... how freeking sad.. but hey, in the UK and other enlightened (LOL) nations you get prosecuted for defending yourself and your politicians tell you to leave your "sheds" open so the thieves don't have to break the lock when they steal your stuff so you know.... Just a matter of opinion.. you think were crazy for possessing firearms and defending that right... we think you naive idiots who don't have the spine to defend yourselves, property, or society.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by CX

 

Dude think for a minute - A dork parent allows a 12 year old to play with an air rifle, the dork kid decides to shoot his neighbors cat. Four doors down an elderly neighbor sees someone with a rifle shooting at her while she's hanging out the washing.

How is this anyone's fault but the dork and his parents? By all means punish them to the fullest extent of the law. If need be make such punishments harsher. What is not needed is blanket legislation from the nanny state due to the actions of a minority. I suggest it is you who needs the thinking time.

reply to post by john124

I'm sorry, but carrying a gun or even a knife around with you will only increase the chances of you becoming hurt. These hoodies will more likely attack you if they feel they are in danger. Why not just avoid the dark alleys instead?

Hold on now, I'm trying to get my swede around all sides of the argument but to suggest that I or any other citizen avoid areas is unacceptable, how long before the areas come to us.

If a couple o f muppets high on crack or something are going to mug me or mine. The fact that I'm carrying something that would likely "blow their heads clean off" would surely go a long way to prevent me from getting hurt or at the very least evening up the score a little.

When I say hoodies I'm generalizing, I simply mean anyone that would do or threaten violence, .

reply to post by moocowman

I simply mean anyone that would do or threaten violence

You're not the policeman in a position to determine who is threatening violence, and to be able to take the law into your own hands.

Sure, carry a gun around, and maybe the hoodies will run away, or instead he'll come back with a shotgun and blow the legs off of your kids. If you cannot avoid areas, then avoid confrontation by just giving them what they want. Is the life of your kids or even your own worth less than your watch or your wallet?

My point being, why take any risks when it's potentially a life-threatening situation?

Yes, there are cases where it's a complete psychopath who will stab or shoot you even after surrendering your wallet, but the majority are cowards that dare not harm anyone because they're # scared of going to prison. Thieves are cowards, and most will # off if you stare at them like you will defend yourself - no guns or knives are needed. Just the fear of a weapon used in retaliation is almost always enough. By actually drawing a weapon will change the whole situation into a guaranteed fight or flight mechanism for the robber, which makes the situation less controllable and more unpredictable, especially when you're talking about paranoid crack heads.

[edit on 22-11-2009 by john124]

reply to post by infolurker

Hey, IMO anyone who is naive enough or to frightened (like scared little schoolgirls) to defend themselves, family and property is severely lacking intellectually and definitely lacking in the trouser department.

Read my last point as to why carrying a gun would only increase your chances of getting injured or killed. It's not about fear, it's called using your brain and being wise. I do not need a gun to feel safe.

Your more scared of your law abiding neighbors than criminals and gangs... how freeking sad..

How freeking incorrect! It's not as simple as labelling somebody a criminal or law abiding - it just doesn't work that way. Hey look at me I'm law abiding, I carry a gun and today I've decided to rob you, but never mind because yesterday I was law abiding. No wonder the US has gone down the #.

but hey, in the UK and other enlightened (LOL) nations you get prosecuted for defending yourself and your politicians tell you to leave your "sheds" open so the thieves don't have to break the lock when they steal your stuff so you know....

Well I disagree with that, and we should be able to beat up anyone who breaks into our property, but I stop at that, and killing them is obviously out of the question - whether accidental or on purpose. It's true that a blow to the head can also be fatal, but it's less provocative than blowing their head off.

Just a matter of opinion.. you think were crazy for possessing firearms and defending that right... we think you naive idiots who don't have the spine to defend yourselves, property, or society.

This is all about opinion, and we are both true to some extent, it just depends where you live. But most of the time carrying around a gun will cause a reaction in the UK, rather than a prevention. In the US, in some areas where people have grown up with guns around, responsibility may be part of the culture. In the UK, if we had the same amount of guns as the US, there'd probably be a civil war the day after.

It's more about morals, rather than fear of defending yourself, and instead how far you are willing to go, and seeing other options to prevent the situation turning extremely nasty.

It is so pathetic... they live in fear and refuse to allow their people to defend themselves.

www.thisislondon.co.uk...

Being mugged is now part of my everyday life

We used to discuss schools and nannies.

Now the main topic of conversation among my friends is who got mugged and how.

Mostly talk dwells on the sheer chutzpah with which the crimes are committed.

It's not unusual to have teenagers go through a roster of their day's activities to which they add “Oh, and I got mugged on the way home” to the list.

The difference now is that we've got so used to it that we almost take it for granted — and I speak as someone whose car was carjacked and whose house was broken into, with us in it, listening to his every stumble.

When my husband chased the robber down the street, the dutiful police officer advised us to install even more expensive security.

He took one look at my watch and suggested I go without. What next? No clothes?

When my phone was stolen from my car last week while I tried to open my front door (the culprit later s'n-word'ed when I dialled it), I came to the conclusion that crime is so rampant that ordinary citizens like us have stopped even bothering informing the police (I certainly didn't).

Chief Superintendent Mark Heath of Kensington and Chelsea reassures me that 451 personal robberies were recorded in the borough in the past 12 months: that should calm me because that is statistically fewer than the year before. Perhaps they are in a different part of the borough from where I live.

The statistics also don't match our experience because the victims have developed immunity.

We just sit in our fortresses, hoarding our worldly goods with cameras and private security guards while assuming that every Sainsbury's unloading session could end in terror.

Even my middle-aged cleaner was mugged on her three-minute journey home — and she doesn't wear a watch.

The recession may make things even worse: personal robberies were up by 25 per cent in the UK as a whole last year.

Scotland Yard's acting second-in-command, Tim Godwin, recently said that the side-effects of our economic times were already being felt by the Met: “We will get an increase in areas of criminality such as retail crime and business crime,” he said. It trickles down to wanting your wallet.

Thus my son's 13-year-old friend was mugged by a five-year-old on a tricycle for his phone.

Just a few months before, a fellow mother at my son's school in sleepy St John's Wood was mugged for her Rolex in front of the school gates with all of the mothers watching.

“His face was completely exposed and there were security guards at the school opposite,” she said. “All he said was, If you don't take the watch off, I'll stab you.'

You could tell he really didn't care that there were dozens of witnesses.

One of the other mothers was even trying to pull him off.”

Last year I watched a large man get mugged from my upstairs window.

He swatted the teenagers off (they grabbed his wallet) then kicked his car in frustration. He gave the mugging about the same degree of response as receiving a parking ticket.

Though Chief Supt Heath tells me the crime in my borough is down overall by 12 per cent, I am not convinced.

Walking into my house backwards to make sure I won't be jumped on my doorstep is not relaxing — nor is paying to have the scratch marks (a Notting Hill custom) removed from my car every six months.

We get used to everything — but why should we? We should not be paying for more security — we should be picketing.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Figures released this month show someone is attacked by a stranger every 30 seconds in Britain.

There were 1,057,000 violent attacks by strangers last year - the equivalent of 2,895 a day or 120 every hour.

You see, being armed is a deterrent... a few of these thugs get plugged and you will see a dramatic decrease in crime. They don't even care anymore. They will rob you in broad daylight in front of witnesses and cameras. Your Chamberlain style pacifist stance is a failure.

Guns used in self-defense over 2.5 million times a year
www.youtube.com...

[edit on 22-11-2009 by infolurker]

well the airsoft rifle i play with is this one www.gunnerairsoft.com... is this what they are trying to ban or regular bb guns like daisy and crosman

Originally posted by john124
If anyone in the UK wants to own guns, then # off to the US to shoot stuff there instead. Don't tell me it's all about shooting tin cans and plastic pigeons.... I know it's more about shooting defenceless animals; and kids shooting their brothers or sisters; that warrants the ban.

So banning airguns will stop the kinds of people who shoot defenceless animals?

Maybe you're right, i mean look at how well the knife ban is working.

CX.

[edit on 22/11/09 by CX]

Success in action:
Just browse a single month..
www.thearmedcitizen.com...
www.thearmedcitizen.com...
www.thearmedcitizen.com...
www.thearmedcitizen.com...

[edit on 22-11-2009 by infolurker]

reply to post by infolurker


With apologies to the OP.

Chamberlain was many things. As PM he walked a difficult parliamentary tightrope (something the Germans lacked), pursuing both intense diplomatic activity to prevent his country sliding into war with an active but discrete policy of rearmament.

It's unfair to characterise Neville Chamberlain as a pacifist.