If you had created a new race of beings, how would YOU monitor them...?

I'm posting this purely to listen to people's opinions so if you are inclined, please give me your take as I am very interested in what you have to say It's a bit long sorry but bear me out , I need to "set the scene". This is all hypothetical of course.........

I want you to imagine that you are part of a team of scientists who are master genetecists. You were born on Earth some time in the future during a time when space travel was more commonplace and humans had learnt how to terraform planets and manipulate the genetic code of the human species as well as various animal species. Due to scientific advances (you will need to suspend incredulity here) you live a good couple of hundred years and when your body gives out, your consciousness can be downloaded into a new body .

You are part of a team who has created a NEW sub type of homo sapien and these humans are created and raised on a separate planet to Earth. Let's call this world EDEN. This new breed of human is without the flaws the "old style humans" from a couple of hundred years ago your texts book tell you about - no genetic predisposition to disease or illness for example, genes for things like alcoholism, depression, aggression and other "flaws" are not part of their makeup. These new beings have been genetically "programmed" to "behave" themselves and do what is asked of them without question. You have not created them to be some sinister bunch of "new breed militia" or anything like that, the idea instead is to populate a new world with a race of humans who interract peacefully with one another - a social experiment if you like. There are still a fair amount of "flawed" human beings on Earth , the system down there is not yet perfected but on this new planet you are aiming for something better if you like. Perhaps a desire for control is part of the reason for this programme, mixed also in part with curiosity and the urge to create and experiment with the gifts your science has by now afforded you.

So, a certain amount of these genetically enhanced beings live on this new planet. There are lots of people from Earth also on Eden, living there, overseeing the project from all possible angles. There is an express rule that humans from Earth do NOT sexually interract with the "new humans" on the new planet but rules are usually broken and this very thing happens and does so in various areas around Eden. The troublemakers in question obviously had a flaw in their own programming which was not apparant until they began to exhibit this rebellion of the law .

The resulting offspring's DNA has now been "tainted" if you like - the original design tampered with because of the introduction to new DNA from the Earth humans that has caused various problems which begin to become more apparant as these "hybrids" mature into adulthood. The disturbing behavioural flaws of the old-style humans seem to be manifesting themselves and gradually begins to undermine the stability and harmony of the burgeoning "new order" on Eden.

Conflict breaks out, wars are fought. The wrong doers are punished, exiled from Earth and Eden alike, sent to a different planet and forbidden to return to either Earth or Eden. Something terrible happens - a pole shift for example though some suspect a terrible weapon was unleashed on Earth- which completely throws a spanner in the works by causing global catastrophes and forces the Earth humans to flee in their ships back to Earth.

The survivors on Eden gradually increase in number but by the time the Earth humans return to see what's going on, thousands of years have passed - it was just not safe to return until then , due to widespread global catastrophes. Upon return you observe how humans are everywhere all over the Earth, there is a total lack of order and the humans who now exist are savages by comparison to your original design. However, during the time that has passed by a new law was effected forbidding Earth humans to permanently dwell on Eden again. Instead it was decreed that Edenites were to be given a certain period of time to "make their own way". Depending on how this worked out, Earthlings may or may not be allowed increased influence on Edenite development.

Perhaps during this "time out" the REBEL faction of Earthlings managed to get access to Earth somehow, planting seeds of influence amongst Edenites. This rebel faction would feel a close bond to the Edenties given the Edenites were essentially THEIR offspring now, a result of their actions.

Now, to my question for YOU.
You are one of the original team of master genetecists who created the "perfect" race that was subsequently sullied genetically by a rebel faction who interbred with them. As time progresses you watch the situation on the new planet deteriorate - human society is completely segregated and chaotic. Rape, murder, violence, war, and all sorts of other "evils" are widespread while the planet is milked for all humans can take from her and poisoned in the process. Do you stand by and let these humans continue, unchecked ? Do you sit by and do nothing when in another 500 years they take their weapons, their aggresion and their madness into space on a wideer scale ? When trips to the Moon are replaced by trips to distant planets and their ships are loaded with advanced weaponry and piloted by mind controlled astronauts who are trigger-happy ?

Granted, they exhibit many of the traits your own race possessed and still posess to some degree perhaps but the point is your original design for these humans was to programme them to be without the flaws your own race had . YOU CREATED THEM, in effect you are their parents if you like. They are of course - it sounds pretty awful but there's no other term for it really - are your EXPERIMENT. How many scientists just completely abandon their creation , their experiment ? To do that surely goes against a certain code of ethic at the heart of which is held the interests of not only your own race but the interests of the EXPERIMENTAL RACE on Eden ??? If you could DO something to attempt a reversal of the sullied gene pool, would you do it ? Would you try to "purify" these humans who have been running amok for millenia ? Would your team, your species, devise strategy for a recapturing of the control you once long ago had, in that time when the new world was peaceful and harmonious and orderly ?

Thousands of years have passed by , time was given for these hybrids to evolve on a "let's see how they do by themselves" basis but obviously this approach is not really working as the world in question is quite screwed up in all sorts of ways.

So what would you do..............? How would you go about undoing the mess down here ? Would you send teams of drones to "borrow" humans for a bit- take samples of their DNA, upgrade their DNA, tag them and replace them on Earth perhaps ? Mark them as "your chosen ones" ..........?

If you knew for a fact that death was an illusion and so no-one really ever "ceases to be", would you think twice about genocide for the good of future generations ? Perhaps you might do it in a subtle way so as to approach it with a bit of compassion perhaps rather than scare the crap out of everyone with displays of frightening weaponry and skies filled with ships......?

Maybe you would even feed into human expectation and work in tandem with Eden governments or invisible power cartels at the top of the pyramid to deliberately manifest religious prophecy events , to "ease" people into the transition ...after all, they might feel comforted in times of extreme change if they think "God" is behind it all so that when you do swoop down eventually and present yourselves openly to the world people will trust you, even those who previously never believed in the Bible. Then at least you would have a relatively passive bunch of survivors to deal with - and what they are led to believe may be easier for them to be told in the long run, they would not like or understand that thousands of years ago their forefathers were a genetic experiment gone wrong that now needs fixing. Too impersonal and psychologically devastating.

So, you are one of these master genetecists, this team from Earth. Do you empathize with some of the possible actions I've described above ? Stand back, detach from your emotion and think like a team member of a group of creator scientists when you consider your response.........

No I do not emphatise with the whole "Perfect World" situation. There is no such thing as "perfect", what's good for you would/could be evil for other...what's perfect for you could not be not so perfect, common or even imperfect for a different person. Who is the deciding authority? What do you constitute as "evil"/"flaws"? Do you think agressiveness is a form of evil/flaws or unpeacefullness?

If it is then that would mean there would be no sports or physical activity of any any kind which would require strength and willingness or any form of desire or necessity coz the "perfect" people are already contend and satisfied with their situation. They would not mate coz they dont have such desires as tthey already are contend with the situation they are in.

With desire and need comes greed, with agressiveness comes hate and a gene would get tainted in your say. Without such basic things a gene cannot evolve and would be a "fail" world.

All you can do is create "human robots" who would need to be governed by a remote control. They wont be able to evolve and survive on their own without the basic "flaws".

I am going to reply to your thread accordingly and in a right fashion. But i have to say this is EXACTLY what i feel, and how humans on this planet were somewhat created.
Star flagg and i wish i could put 9070293409238409 rep lol

I like the subtile irony here.

If I was one of the master genetecists as you said and our experiment on Eden went wrong, I would suggest we just start another one on a different planet becuase we have the technology and the incentive to create the un-flawwed beings. I mean, that's what we started out to do, we messed up the first time, this time we will get it right.

I would however monitor the failed experiment, possibly experiment some more. Monitor their people, DNA changes, beliefs, and rulers, from a far and nudge their society at the apporpriate time into the right direction. Just so they dont get to far off the original course and become enemies or a nuisance to the universe.

As for telling them they are a failed experiment, but are still closely related to us. I don't know where to even start. I suppose when we finally decide to make contact when them, we might omit that failed experiment part and just say they are all the decentants of Earth that left looking for more freedoms. Just like Europeans to America. It just took us awhile to check up on you guys. lol idk

Is that something along the lines of what you where looking for?

[edit on 10-11-2009 by tooo many pills]

Oh my, this is a tricky one.

First of all, great idea for a thread. I have thought of this myself too.

First of all, if I was able to create a new race of beings, a question arise, and this depends on beliefs too; would I be able to infuse these beings with a soul? Or is such a feat only at the hands of some supreme Creator?
If such was not possible, I do not know if they would qualify as beings. This one really depends on what definition we have of "beings".

But the original question, what I would do to fix this mess?

You have laid out some good alternatives, so what I think I would do is this. I would pick out certain individuals which exhibited most traits from the original design, and try to tell them exactly what had happened to their race. That they were designed without the flaws of their original creators, but someone had tainted them. I would then send out these individuals to try and convey the message, and see if the race responded.
If they responded with the old " burn the heretic" thingy, I would opt for an intervention with ships and such. The people that succumbed to fear and chaos would destroy themselves. I would then tell them the original story, for everyone to hear, giving them a choice too either be restored to their original state at the point of their creation, or choose the path they are already on to. I believe that since this race was created to be without the flaws of us, they would urge to return to this state.

I could have written a lot more. One of them is other benevolent or malicious races in the universe that would have intervened and made contact with Edenites, and how they potentially would have affected their course.

If they evolved into being a potential future problem, ie the triggerhappy astronaut route, I think I would be forced to give them the options of choosing a better path or be obliterated. Like an experiment gone wrong.

reply to post by December_Rain


I understand your point of view but this is not about "right" or "wrong", it is not about what these hypothetical humans did and if it was a good or a bad thing. I wanted to present a situation where the deed has already been done , regardless of the ethics concerned. The said "experiment" goes wrong so how does it get fixed ? If you were to put yourself in the mindset of these master genetecists, how would you proceed ?

To other readers :

Someone else mentioned the changes to the new humans and how this makes them sound as if they were nothing more than robots. Let's imagine the following scenario :

You are a pregnant woman in the year 2250. You do what most pregnant women do in that time - you have your embryo screened for "genetic defects" and tweaked so those defects are fixed. The babies that are born never have to face any kind of terrible disease, disability or life threatening illness: genes for things like cancer, alzheimers, multiple sclerosis, blindness, deformities, Aids, etc were discovered long ago along with genes for things like an assortment of mental illnesses, chemical imbalances that may result in extremes of emotional behaviour , and so on. Genes for intelligence are increased to some degree along with physical prowess, enhanced psychic ability and any number of other "enhancements" can be made. You would not view the child that is born as some kind of soulless robot, it would be human in every way but just a new KIND of human, a vast improvement in so many ways to the kind of humans that have previously populated the world. Many would think so anyway.

Change is an inevitable part of life and it is a very human thing to advance scientifically and USE that increase of scientific knowledge to try new things. Humans are genetically wired to progress scientifically and technologically so it would be illogical not to try to make improvements in the human populace if those changes stood a chance of improving the harmony and stability of society. Especially if you are living in a chaotic world society like we currently are in 2009 - if genetic science became a tool to improve conditions here on Earth, it would be very odd NOT to try and do something constructive with those new scientific advances and that is what I imagine the humans who created the Edenites did, but perhaps they chose to do so not on Earth but on Eden as perhaps Earth was "too far gone" to do much about by then ? Or maybe they were conducting the advances on BOTH planets only Eden offered a totally new, clean slate such that ONLY new style humans were intended to be born there while on Earth there was more a mixture of old and new style humans.

In the hypothetical scenario the Edenites are not soulless clones, nor are they robots. They are born like humans have always been born only they mature into a different "kind" of human, a human who has no inclination towards so called "evil" or "destructive" behaviour. The genes that enable aggression for example do not necessarily result in a species that is entirely passive as such, instead the genes for this drive are modified such that the aggression is only ever utilized for positive purpose rather than for violence and destruction which is currently the other side of the coin in humans that exist NOW. And when I say they are "obedient" I imagined a scenario where there was no drive in these new humans to break basic laws that support the growth of a harmonious society - people would have no drive to commit acts of violence that hurt themselves or others for example, they would have no urge to steal, lie, deceive, etc. As a result crimes such as murder, rape, sexual abuse, domestic violence, paedophilia and so on just do not happen any more.

Naturally as the creators of these new humans you would need to provide for them and so you build a society where everyone has a home to live in, enough food to eat. There is no poverty or hunger and the concept of "money" does not exist - people may have chores and tasks to do, but the Edenite genes are such that everyone naturally works together for the greater good of the whole so there is no "dog eat dog" attitude any more nor any inequality in respect of race, social standing, bank balance and so forth.

Perhaps there IS no such thing as a "perfect world" but there is very probably a drive to TRY and create such a place, born out of the very human desire to progress, improve and enhance.

So, right or wrong, the scenario is this kind of world exists , these kind of people populate it and naturally because you created this new race, you have a vested interest in how they develop , how they integrate and of course just like wise parental guidance and "rules" are necessary for optimum health and development of your family of 6 children, so the human creators will take on similar roles as "guardians" to ensure order and optimum progress in THEIR "family" of tens of thousands of Edenites. It would be terribly irresponsible to create them then totally abandon them to their own devices after all.

But what if the rebel faction caused an unprecedented and unforseen amount of trouble down on Eden ? What if terrible conflicts broke out between two opposing factions of Earth humans ? Coupled then with global catastrophes on Earth that wiped out the majority of Edenites and hybrids alike, rendering Earth mostly uninhabitable for millenia ? What if the rebel faction, in that war, somehow WON that war and gained a greater degree of control over the surviving humans and Edenites and set about engaging their OWN plans for those people, plans that diametrically opposed your own !

Personally speaking, if such a scenario actually took place then my own view is that in some ways both factions of Earth involved in this "battle for souls" have their plus and minus points but I would want no place in either of their worlds. On the one hand you are looking at a situation where you are a genetically engineered Edenite who may live for thousands of years but never really understand what is is/was to be an "original" human while on the other hand you would be faced with living in a society which is incredibly heirarchical, fascist and base, ruled over by the leaders and offspring who are "hybrid" by nature and whose desire for control is born more out of ego, the urge to possess and dominate. They may STRIVE eventually for some utopia but their methods for trying to achieve this are far more nefarious in nature than those used by the Master genetecists and they necessitate "big brother" tactics to reign humans in where this was never necessary in the original Edenites who were created without the genetic "flaws" that would otherwise "make" such overt control tactics necessary if there was ever going to be ANY chance of creating a "New World Order". In short, Edenites were naturally born peaceful and harmonious whereas the hybrid race were not so they "required" dominating in the minds of THEIR masters in order to BECOME more peaceful.

We could take this theory one step further along now and theorize that those (hypothetical.... ) "grey aliens" are performing "upgrades" on the hybrids of Eden and that their "overseers" are the so called "Nordic" aliens who are often associated with them. These Nordics are the master genetecists, the original creator "gods" . In their minds they are perhaps working towards achieving a return to the glory days of Eden and may feel it necessary to take who they view as their own much like parents would take their children even though the child may be scared and not understand what is going on. They may feel it necessary to borrow their creations without asking as there is "no time" to ask for consent on an individual basis as too many would refuse to accompany them out of fear or reprehension and in their minds it is vitally important that as many as possible are taken and upgraded and/or "marked" in some way so these people can be protected from harm should some terrible SHTF one day. In their minds they are protecting their creations with a view to being in a position to create Eden all over again while at the same time their actions may also be benefitting some new genetics programme - they are master genetecists after all so will have unquenching curiosity to utilize their talents in this area and continue with other experiments that we don't know much about. In short, "we" are not the only ones they have created.


I'm not saying they are an entirely "good" species, these greys or Nordics, I'm simply pointing out how things may be viewed from THEIR perspective as our "creators".......... cos love them or loathe them, in this hypothetical scenario they are the parents of the human race on Eden.

reply to post by cosmicpixie


This is a moral issue, first and foremost, as the “experiment” has become self-aware and autonomous, thus making it as important and relevant in the universe as its creators.

If it was never the intention to create a species that could become totally self-aware - just be capable of a form of rudimentary, independent thought – rather to initiate a new form of perfected, yet subservient species for research purposes only - then the experimenters need to address the teachings their ethics dictate and act on them accordingly as to how to tackle the problem they have created. That they failed to stop nature taking its course is not the experiment’s fault, nor should it be condemned because of it. The experimenters have become parents because of Nature’s unstoppable insistence to change and adapt whenever it can, and they should learn a very important lesson from that.

The hope of the new species surviving would rest on its parent’s ethical standpoint being benevolent, as opposed to ruthlessly dictatorial, or even scientifically indifferent to wiping the slate and trying again. Even if it was created, this new life-form is now self-reliant, curious and adventurous and is therefore able to question not only its world, but its beginnings, something its creators may well be aware happened to them in their dim, distant past. If the experimenters have advanced to the extent that they can both willingly and boldly examine the reality of the growth of society by building their own, new species, then they should have been prepared for any eventuality, as this new, unexpected species can now also decide on its own future.

If that future is leading to pain and death on a grand scale for itself or others it may come across – by whatever means it has deliberately, or inadvertently, concocted – then it is the parents’ duty to assist its offspring in making fair and decent choices.

What right minded parent would watch its child deliberately harm itself, or another, on a constant basis?

Children have to learn from their mistakes, yet have to be allowed to learn in their own time, and allowed to make the right moral decisions for themselves. Overt, controlling guidance can lead to ingrained rebelliousness…

And on a Universal scale, this new species’ mistakes – war, aggression, power seeking – may well seem to it to be the norm, but as far as their parents are concerned, it is nothing more than a passing phase they know will end, with its subtle, and invaluable, help.

reply to post by Beamish


A very intresting and thought-provoking response, thank you.

So considering what you wrote, how would you view attempts by the original designers to "upgrade" the species genetically, albeit in clandestine fashion ? And if you factor in that these designers know for a fact that "death" is merely an illusion and souls can go on to new planets or dimensions, then how does this effect any decision they might make for hundreds of millions die - an act perpetrated deliberately although in such a fashion as not to make it obvious a deliberate genocide was taking place , instigated by extraterrestrials.

Or what if attempts to gently guide the humans you parented fell on deaf and blind ears. What if a more dramatic approach was taken - takeover for example - as the only other alternative was to sit by and do nothing and watch these humans spill over into the galaxy, taking with them their hostilities, their wars , becoming a danger to other civilizations out there ? Could you afford to sit back and do nothing, taking a philosophical approach by concluding "their ways will run their course, they will sort themselves out" - how could you be sure they ever WOULD sort themselves out if after 12,000 years they are still raping, murdering, abusing etc. It could take tens of thousands of years for such a species to begin moving beyond that kind of behaviour - alot of time for alot of bad things to be done by this species once they take off in the Universe with their warships to "explore".

Do children not sometimes need a firm hand ? If you lost your child and found him years later roughing it in the forest with a bunch of wolves and that child resisted all your attempts to re-civilize him would you just leave the child to be or would you employ "tough love" to straighten him out ?

We use meditation, exercise and other practices in attempts to cntrol wild thoughts, reign in imbalanced emotions, counter unhealthy & destructive desires - would if the parents knew of a more permanent way of giving humans the ability to experience harmony through a genetic proceedure to upgrade them for example and even if this was done without their consent, might it not be a case of the wiser grown ups doing what they know is ultimately in the best interests of their children ?

But it's the genocide issue that is most interesting - if there IS no death and all humans who cross over in the genocide naturally come to realize this might they not actually understand what was done and perhaps not resent it even once they realize they are immortal and observe the better, new world down below that their premature passing has made possible ?

lets just say.. futurama when Bender becomes god!

LOL at first then began to SMH at the realisim in this thread. I see you put much data inside this thread O.P. wow how ironic this fits EARTH, IF EARTH WAS EDEN AND THE ORIGINAL PLANET WAS SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Now returning and seeing my"EXPERIMENT" RUN wild I would try and find ways to intervine and get them back on track. Now since we all have ETERNAL SOULS as mentioned in the thread that nobody dies. I would modify their water unnoticably to put them all to sleep painlessly and reawakin them when the "EXPERIMENT IS REPAIRED" SMH @ ME JUST KILLEN my IMMORTAL SELF TO BE REBORN (seed banks huh!:. I hope this is not an ACCURATE VISION smh @ the possibility. This thread made me think too much but its very cool, created by a very deep imagination or someone who knows something LOMFKNL nice. Guess my water will be putting me to sleep. QUESTION FOR THE IMAGINATION OF THE O.P. where are the "souls" or LIFEFORM DATA STORED AT sheesh I AM TREADING VERY CAREFUL IN THIS THREAD FOR SOME ODD REASON.

exiting post STILL SMH AND THANKS.S&F FOR SURE


[edit on 11/11/09 by Ophiuchus 13]

WONDER if the new reprogrammed species will have the past life issue fixed or is that a gift.... Probably not good to remember you last fails. This is TOOOOOO INTERESTING

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Glad you are enjoying the discussion. It's great to be able to talk about this and get some other people's input, my poor boyfriend gets a bit sick of me waxing lyrical though he does his best to hear me out, bless and I can't talk to anyone else about it all
I'll get back to you later on tonight when I have time to respond properly...son home from school any minute now

reply to post by cosmicpixie

…how would you view attempts by the original designers to "upgrade" the species genetically, albeit in clandestine fashion ?

Let’s not forget that we are merely theorizing about the provenance of the “designers”; would it not be dangerous to assume that they are of one culture, and thus adhering to that culture’s guidelines, rather than a conglomeration of moral doctrines that have begat some kind of universal measure of interaction? And what would constitute “clandestine” for that culture? How would it be measured against our interpretation? Taken in its strictest sense, their guidance may not even be noticed. Then again, it may constitute direct intervention, but on a small, personal scale so not to affect the new species’ burgeoning culture (even if it is at fault).

And if you factor in that these designers know for a fact that "death" is merely an illusion and souls can go on to new planets or dimensions, then how does this effect any decision they might make for hundreds of millions die - an act perpetrated deliberately although in such a fashion as not to make it obvious a deliberate genocide was taking place , instigated by extraterrestrials.

I’ll once again use the parental allegory; if a parent knew that death was not the end, would that stop them from protecting their “children” from disaster? (I think you know the answer to that.) Again, we are theorizing on another, completely alien culture and projecting our own understanding of the significance and duty of care onto a philosophy that may well include initial abandonment and survival as its foundation. We simply don’t know how the “parents” would react.

What we can do is assume that these designers already have intervened with their species’ development, thus have formed their creation’s varying cultures according to – or as close as they can – to the ones that sprang up in their own history. That way, the creation’s spiritual and ethical advancement will at least be relatively predictable; the designers, perhaps through hubris or philosophical decree, would have instilled an elemental seed of their own culture into their offspring.

Or what if attempts to gently guide the humans you parented fell on deaf and blind ears. What if a more dramatic approach was taken - takeover for example - as the only other alternative was to sit by and do nothing and watch these humans spill over into the galaxy, taking with them their hostilities, their wars , becoming a danger to other civilizations out there ?

To use the parent metaphor once again, but from a different angle; each individual parent has individual principles, and believes they are correct. Often, they are not. This can be because of hidden agendas, controlling upbringing, foolhardiness, lack of education and arrogance tainting their decisions. As yet, no philosophy or set of beliefs has been capable of gathering each and every parent in the world to teach them unquestionable, completely verifiable and observable truths upon which to raise their children. I would hope that any advanced species that has attained the ability to create other species already has that guidance, that inalienable truth (excuse the pun), and has expanded into the Universe with it as its foundation and guide. They would know – not hope or rely on faith – that they are right.

…how could you be sure they ever WOULD sort themselves out if after 12,000 years they are still raping, murdering, abusing etc. It could take tens of thousands of years for such a species to begin moving beyond that kind of behaviour - alot of time for alot of bad things to be done by this species once they take off in the Universe with their warships to "explore".

We are allowing our limited perception of Time to impart a sense of wasted instances. What if there is only experience to be had, not Time to be wasted? What if it really doesn’t matter that we continue to kill for the next thousand years, or destroy our arms tomorrow? Maybe the only important thing is that we gather knowledge on the way, not just technological knowledge (though that is imperative) but a true understanding as to what part we play in this realm of existence, and what the real goal of life is all about.

Do children not sometimes need a firm hand ? If you lost your child and found him years later roughing it in the forest with a bunch of wolves and that child resisted all your attempts to re-civilize him would you just leave the child to be or would you employ "tough love" to straighten him out ?

Yes they do, but they need to understand more why a firm hand is needed. It needs to be explained. And could a feral child only be coaxed into civilization by love, comfort and care if they saw where those reassurances came from? A trail of food and that led to a dry shelter would attract the hardiest of uncultivated souls, especially those who at their heart crave comfort. Then, when the child is warm and reliant on the goods given by their invisible benefactor, the bringer of those comforts could make themselves known in safety, and, eventually, with acceptance.

…would if the parents knew of a more permanent way of giving humans the ability to experience harmony through a genetic proceedure to upgrade them for example and even if this was done without their consent, might it not be a case of the wiser grown ups doing what they know is ultimately in the best interests of their children ?

But where would be the choice? Where’s the experience gained by growing as a species? Yes, eliminate illness genetically, but remember that the emotions honed through hardship and loss caused by illness shape the mind. If the new species had nothing to worry about, would it still grow?

And who dictates where growth ends?

If I were one of these "master genetecist" I would probably say to myself "Oh my ME, what have I done?"

The tainted gene from the earth humans can in this case be considered the missing link.

Regardless of the circumstances, I would still consider the experiment a success. Although the experiment can now never be undone without killing all the beings you've created the analogy can still be made to the number of times the world been destroyed according to the Bible?


Hey,we kinda think alike.
I also have a similar story with a slightly different twist in that the master genetecists consist of a member of the three races of Man, (one white, one asian and one black).
They discover a way of creating life and are given the go ahead to conduct their experiment on a distant planet. Of course the religious fanatics from the old world are opposed to this experiment and will do anything to sabotage this major project. Long story short, as the genetic cargo approaches the planet we know as Mars, a battle between the scientists and the religious fanatic spies begins on board the ship, which results in it accidentally veering off course and crash landing on Earth.
Most of the cargo is destroyed but there is still enough to begin the experiment on Earth, and the rest is now history.

Oh, and the old world religious fanatics are then dealt with accordingly, are banished from their heavenly planet but are still around to influence the people of this new world.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


I've contemplated this a fair bit and what I'm about to suggest is purely personal opinion. I've concluded that in addition to Earth being a matrix of sorts so too is the Astral realm so that when people cross over they may in effect be going from one area of a "game" /control system into another, such that the astral realm is yet another level we must awaken too if we want to be truly free. The process of reincarnation exists, I've no doubt of that personally speaking, but I view it as a prison for the soul and not some wonderful chance to progress and evolve. It seems to be a recycling process whereby souls upon death are likely very easily persuaded to return here (they will have alot of attachments to earthly life) . Perhaps they are encouraged to believe it is in the interest of their soul's evolution but of course once they are reborn, their memory banks are wiped and there is a total lack of knowledge in respect of who they are, where they came from, why they are here, what they are to learn and so on. If we entered a chemistry exam without revising our work, we would likely not pass the test as would have no clue about the answers. We cannot really build on knowledge or increase wisdom if we have no easy access to the prior experiences of previous lives. I mean how can you go onto a Chemistry PHD if you can't even remember what you learnt in first grade lessons?

Then there is this idea of being "flawed, imperfect " and needing to improve ourselves at the heart of the reincarnation doctrine . Becoming truly divine and at one with the source is something we must take millions of life times to achieve apparantly which personally I think is a bullcrap concept . It is a rather manipulative spiritual system that feeds off the sense of inadequacy and imperfection mankind seems to suffer from and one which plays into our vulnerabilities and takes advantage of the fact we have no clear idea of who we are or where we come from. Religion does the same thing.So we are easily "led" by various systems which propose to hold the answers for us or that promise spiritual benefits to us. With reincarnation we are to accept that the system is overseen by a hierarchical bunch of "divine" beings that determine how far up the ladder we do or don't go. Personally I believe we are all wired with the capacity for self determination and that we are all divine - it is not a condition we need to strive lifetimes to acquire but I can understand why a huge majority of souls would be hoodwinked by this kind of system and easily get caught in the trap.

Whoever set the system up, whoever introduced the programme into our consciousness, obviously wants to keep bringing individual souls here over and over again and seeks to make it very difficult for them to make any appreciable advances in self understanding and awareness. I for one feel incredibly frustrated that I have no conscious access to past life experiences or inbetween life time experiences - I might understand my purpose alot better if I did. Something seems to want to PREVENT this level of awareness in us. The system tells us that it is in place to help us grow and learn but how can we really grow and learn if we can't even recall what we did "wrong" last time around, it is totally illogical !

In my imagination the ideal state of consciousness would be for my sense of individual self to perpetuate through the millenia of my experiences in a variety of bodies or forms. I would always be "victoria" and have ready access to all my prior experiences. I may live on a different planet in 200 years for example but be able to remember important times spent down here on earth in 2009 and all the people in my life. This would be a real accumulation of knowledge and wisdom to keep building on. I would truly feel immortal, I would go from one adventure to the next, never really dying, and always remembering the core of my individuality even though I would expand and change in ways over the millenia. THAT would be truly liberating and the prospect of this being possible fills me with excitement. Why on earth would I want to forget everthing that has happened to me in this lifetime ? How can I learn by forgetting ? Sure, it would be good to have some place to rest and heal in between journeys, somewhere to recharge as it were but then I'd want to be able to carry on when I'm ready, never forget a thing ! I would like to think such a scenario is possible if one avoids the reincarnation matrix upon death, if one refuses to fall for the kindly advice and subtle manipulation to return to earth in a new body .

Heaven, Hell, reincarnation...I believe them all to be programmes to trap us in an astral matrix so that we remain in the zone of the ET monitors . I'm just not sure yet which faction of the ETs created this after death matrix - there are good reasons to blame both camps - the original designers of the Edenite race OR the rebel faction who sullied the design through their interbreeding.

At the same time these control systems only exist because souls allow them to exist due to those souls failing to awaken . They are systems put in place for the "asleep" and perhaps the system suits those souls as perhaps many souls are just not ready to embrace the true liberation that is their right. The system tells you that lifetime upon lifetime of dedicated spiritual activity and conscious efforts to develop and get wise are required prior to standing any chance of getting off the rebirth wheel....I don't believe that to be true. I myself have never followed any such practices nor do I view myself as some enlightened Bhuddist type who has finally detached from all worldly , material desires and emotions. I am fully flawed but very awake and do not believe my liberation depends upon the judgement of some cosmic overlord on Astral plane number 7.

i would watch the species i have created from the skies... in cloaked starships.... and from time to time pick up a couple, dissect them, see whats goin on.... what a minute here... seriously tho, its what id do.. we are like a jello mold... watch the bacteria grow and build cities and nuclear weapons...

reply to post by cosmicpixie


I feel where you are comming from though it is a nice vision to be ETERNAL AS WE ALL ARE. But I feel it possibley would also place limits on our abilities to rise if we always have the OVERSEERS directing us along the way. On the other hand I feel it would keep many safe who cannot ascend w/o direction thru existance. Because those who may not know the direction thru existance may be easily misdirected by demons and sent back to earth as a flawed human again to try and taint your soul in order to send you to the evil realm. Basically its a 2 way street that requires assistance from afar, unless you are spiritually enhanced enough to fly directly home w/o and obsticals to slow you down or misdirect you. Those spirits that can navigate alone w/o help are of a unique spiritual energy unlike the majority. Nice thread again makes you think as I like to do.

I would use the GDP and other such mathematical calculations .

In other ways I would use the chi value of the planet. or rather the life force.

or i would just use a large telescope.

reply to post by Ophiuchus 13


Yes, I think the issue of self responsibility comes into play here, specifically how much responsilbility an individual will take in respect of guiding their own life and discovering answers to questions that lie outside of the masses of religious and spiritual books and texts for example. If those souls you talk about get trapped then part of me cannot help but feel it is alot to to with lack of self responsibility coupled with a failure to truly observe the world they live in and really analyze what goes on down here. Some call these types of soul the "sheeple" , they talk of them being asleep and/or indifferent to anything much beyond their basic needs for comfort and survival and entertainment. I suspect if you spend most of your life acting like this type of person your chances of liberation are narrow but at the end of the day it cannot all be blamed upon the manipulators of the system as we are all born with the power to think, observe , reason and so forth. At the same time it's perhaps easier said than done, this "waking up"....just a year ago I bought into the reincarnation system and had done so for many years, never really questioning if it was a good or a bad process. As I read into all sorts of other subjects, a bigger picture emerged and the penny began to drop. But what if I'd been mown down my a car and killed before I saw things so very differently....I very likely would have remained partially asleep and not thought twice about the kindly suggestion to reincarnate by the apparantly lovely , wise spirit guide who would have met me and told me "this is what happens next".

I suppose what you don't know cannot harm you, at least not on any conscious level so I'd have been none the wiser...a small blessing from the manipulators. I suspect only a minority truly "escape" and being in a position to do so is dependent on awareness but also timing, as evident in my own case. I don't know all the answers but I feel very strongly that the reincarnation cycle is a soul trap and this is my last time coming here to be drowned in unconsciousness and ignorance. Perhaps the rebel ETs made the escape route available... if not for the introduction of their rogue DNA that enabled humanity to question as much as we do we may all have remained on this one little planet, perfect in design in a utopian society yet entirely unaware of so much. So I can be philosophical about what unfolds on Earth - if the designers manage to reinstate their upgraded humanity and recreate their utopia well fine and dandy as I'm out of here for good - I hope !

You'd need a core of your wisest and most benevolent beings to seek out the most trusted and decent of the mortals.
Then make several locations that are practically unreachable by conventional means.
Have the benevolents trained up, and given life-extending fluids (or something that means they live a long time) you have them keeping an eye on things.
Especially an eye on the 'rebel' and 'fallen' elements who'd be working behind the scenes.

Next keep technology from developing too fast in the hands of mortals.
Make sure your technology is higher so you're not at a disadvantage.
Have some of your 'group' live among the mortals as 'insiders'.

Observe mankinds development and act accordingly.
Hopefully things shouldn't get too crazy nor out of hand with a watchful eye on things.
Have each and every member of the group a carefully chosen female/male companion to hopefully prevent getting too close to the mortals.
Finally make sure that every member of the 'group' leaves the planet after certain amount of time. That way the risk of dictatorship tendancies and tryranny is reduced among the group.
That's all I'm saying. I'm writing a 'fictional' book about this sort thing (with a few differences to the OPs creational aspect).

Ok, I'm off to watch 2012 at the movies

[edit on 12-11-2009 by WatchRider]