The Most Extensive Breakdown of Biblical Contradictions

Hi all,

I came across this today and thought id post it here as it really made me question the validity of the bible.

I am somewhat religious in that i like to apply good parts of most religions and philosophies to my life if they help me improve it.

This has made me think twice about taking the bible at face value.

please let me know your thoughts!!

Thanks
Spirit



www.disclose.tv...

reply to post by spirit777child


If you take the time to compare the "contradictions" given yourself and read the works of others that have defended the Bible against the claims of contradiction, you may think twice again at accepting what the Bible says.

ETA: I just copied the list of "contradictions" and, since I'm on Fall break and have time, I think I may go through them and give my thoughts. I'll have to figure out where I'll post it though!

[edit on 10/21/2009 by octotom]

Regarding Genesis 1 3% and Genesis 1:14 -the first verses are talking about night and day and the light dividing the darkness.
The second verse is describing the stars of the night (and possibly moon) as it is the stars that stand for signs and seasons, etc.

didn't bother with the rest of them, as they are probably a like comparison of verses.

Ok, I joined just to show you the fallacy in that site and its so called "contradictions"...

First of all the site and its references are "ALL" out of CONTEXT every single one...

What the author of those contradictions is practicing is something in the Theology field call Isigesus(-An interpretation, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.) I would encourage you to use Exigesus instead which takes into account the culture, the specific audience, and the actual translations and true meanings of what the full passage is saying.

This is THE BIGGEST mistake most bible bashers make! To be honest I feel sorry for them because they spend all this time trying to refute what the bible says and focusing on trying to find flaws that they make up flaws and for an example I give you this:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

Continued in the next post

I have seen many of these lists before..nothing new.

Ultimately, heres how it breaks down

Some of them are out of context which becomes cleared up when you read before and after

Some of them are actual contradictions.

Some of them are simply different perspectives.

The validity of the bible is like doubting the validity of a Dr. Seuss book...just my opinion of course.

keep reading, its brilliant...love the part where the loving god goes on his murdering sprees here and there.

hope Apoc will write the whole story...watch as on the 7th day, the omnipotent diety gets pooped and takes the day off....I mean...who woulda thought a God can get tuckered out.

still, 6 day workweek...he must work out.


incidently...the reason people pick apart the bible is simple...the faster the bible can be smashed down into silliness, the faster all of the major religions of the world can collapse, and the faster we can live in peace without parts of the world demanding their God is better, stronger, faster than your God and start bombing you to prove their point.

world religion is a institution propped up and fully supported by Satan (chew on that for a bit). and destroys the divinity of personal spirituality with icons, books, earth rituals, physical representations, etc.

the only worthwhile thing to take out of the bible is that Jesus hated preachers and the church..hell, he even got crusified because his hatred for such nonsense was rampant and he got the old robes angry at him.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.


Now with everything in context can you please point out to ME where God created day and night twice like the source you supplied mentions?

I can do this with every single instance your source points out...

There are alot of anti-christianity and Anti-Zionist breed here on ATS and I have been stalking these forums for about 4-5 months just reading and watching. I could care less but much of the so called facts brought against the bible here on ATS is a bunch of baloney straight up crap. If you look at a perfect diamond long enough with the thought that there is something wrong with it then you will find something wrong with the perfect diamond. EVEN though its PERFECT!

Honestly, you can take my opinion or not and when you read the bible take it from a scholarly point of view by doing your research on the history, the author, and the translations. The hebrews and greeks have more than one word for "love" meaning all different types of love (like brotherly, motherly, best friend, Intimate lovers, and etc.) but in the english language we only have 1! So by doing research for yourself and by not being a blind sheep lead by someone else's short comings you can truely understand for yourself what the ONE interpretation of the Bible is and what God has promised the Jews and what Christ has offered the Gentiles.

If you have any questions feel free to ask and I will to the best of my ability try to answer them.

Thank you

Originally posted by SaturnFX
hope Apoc will write the whole story...watch as on the 7th day, the omnipotent diety gets pooped and takes the day off....I mean...who woulda thought a God can get tuckered out.

still, 6 day workweek...he must work out.


incidently...the reason people pick apart the bible is simple...the faster the bible can be smashed down into silliness, the faster all of the major religions of the world can collapse, and the faster we can live in peace without parts of the world demanding their God is better, stronger, faster than your God and start bombing you to prove their point.

world religion is a institution propped up and fully supported by Satan (chew on that for a bit). and destroys the divinity of personal spirituality with icons, books, earth rituals, physical representations, etc.

the only worthwhile thing to take out of the bible is that Jesus hated preachers and the church..hell, he even got crusified because his hatred for such nonsense was rampant and he got the old robes angry at him.

You know whats funny! its that Satan or whatever name you want to give him wants you to reject "Faith" not religion but "Faith" in God and in Christ... I really like the last bit you pointed out it makes my point: The bible states that the Devil is here to bring us further from a relationship with God... (This is not to be confused with the church, priests or religion) So if I chose to worship this computer I am typing on then who am I worshiping God or my computer? Didnt a man create the computer? so what makes the computer greater than the man? is it not a tool for man to ease his workload? So to get back on track if I worship this computer I am not worshiping God and therefore Satan is winning. Lack of a relationship with God = 1 more soul brought down with him. Jesus did not hate preachers take that MISCONCEPTION out of your beliefs. Jesus was infuriated with the teachings that they were spreading. Christ tells us not to hate the sinner but to hate the sin! Remember that!

Like I said earlier Study the history and the people of that time especially the Jews and you will understand why they crucified him! They were looking for a Political leader to conquer the Romans and bring them into a new era! Just like Moses did for them when they were in Egypt...

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I have seen many of these lists before..nothing new.

Ultimately, heres how it breaks down

Some of them are out of context which becomes cleared up when you read before and after

Some of them are actual contradictions.

Some of them are simply different perspectives.

The validity of the bible is like doubting the validity of a Dr. Seuss book...just my opinion of course.

keep reading, its brilliant...love the part where the loving god goes on his murdering sprees here and there.

Please post these "Real Contradictions" as I want to see them for myself. I bet you I can debunk them Like I said practice Exegesis (which means to take the context from its original meaning) and you will find that these are all misinterpretations at best

*fixed spelling error*

[edit on 21-10-2009 by APOCOLYPSE DAWN]

reply to post by spirit777child



someone ventured this defense:

...the author is practicing something in the Theology field call Isigesus(-An interpretation, that expresses the interpreter's own ideas, bias, or the like, rather than the meaning of the text.) I would encourage you to use Exigesus instead which takes into account the culture, the specific audience, and the actual translations and true meanings of what the full passage is saying.

Here's my thoughts about that defense:
? and this treatment of scriptures extends to the prophetic word??

where, far into the future the meanings of the time appropriate prophecy needs/requires to be clarified through this 'Exigesus' Filter?
sounds like a stall until some other silver-tongued devil comes to explain those verses to these future believers-in-the-faith... sheeze what clap-trap


if the prophetically inspired word was supposed to be relevant to a future people, then the prophecy would be abundantly clear to that whole generation of believers... without all the hum-bug from the then prominent church leaders as to the interpetation thereof.


~yo~

As usual, the atheists have compiled another list of "biblical contradictions" — yet they always pull statements out of context with seemingly no attempt to understand the body of the text.

That's like the old joke about the hillbilly preacher who would choose a single verse of scripture at random every morning to guide him throughout the day. One morning he opened the Bible and closed his eyes and placed his finger on the page, then read the verse he had chosen: Judas went out and hung himself. This wasn't very helpful to the preacher, so he closed his eyes, flipped a few pages, and selected another verse at random: Go thou and do likewise.

Again, when you take Bible verses out of context, you can arrive at any sort of contradiction or any sort of interpretation.

Another problem with the atheist interpretation of the Bible is that they seemingly take the writing as one continuous body of text, with no regard for the fact that the Bible as we know it is a compilation of many different writings from many different sources. Furthermore, this compilation has been heavily edited by Mankind over the millennia, and many contemporaneous ancient writings have been selectively omitted.

For example, there were other elaborations on the Genesis story that were simply discarded from the Old Testament — accounts that spoke of Adam's first wife, Lilith, who was making Adam's life a living hell before Eve ever came along.

Particularly in Genesis and the other early books of the Old Testament, it's obvious that the writing is a patchwork of various folkloric traditions from across the ancient Middle East. Anyone who has studied the Bible with an open mind knows this; beyond that, anthropologists have uncovered plenty of evidence that much of the Old and New Testaments are based on actual historical events that were simply misinterpreted or woven together with other folklore.

Of course you're going to find contradictions in a body of work based on the combined traditions of many different cultures, especially when the Catholic Church continued editing the thing for hundreds of years.


Of all the books of the Bible, atheists seem most transfixed on Genesis, which is arguably the least understood book of the Old Testament — atheists and theists alike stumble and falter in their attempts to reconcile Genesis with everything else they think they know about the Bible.

The fact is, Genesis is among the oldest of all the folklore chosen for inclusion in the Old Testament and in the Bible — the chronologically oldest book, as I recall, is the book of Job, yet Job is not the first book of the Old Testament. Again, selective editing and compilation.

There were many other Creation stories circulating concurrent with Genesis in the ancient Middle East; and, strangely enough, they all contain similar descriptions of Creation, the Great Flood, Noah's Ark, and so on. This would seem to indicate that they were all based on the same long-forgotten legend, and each story was altered — customized, if you will — for whichever culture was retelling the story.

One of the greatest "contradictions" of the Bible — one that most infuriates atheists and scientists — is the assertion that God created the world only about 6000 years ago. We've all heard this nonsense and argued about it at length.

As I've pointed out many times before, there is no place in the Bible that says the Earth is only 6,000 years old. The subject is just not addressed in the Bible. The misinformation regarding the biblical age of the Earth was first concocted by some fellow centuries ago, and he accomplished this by adding together the chronological appearances of various biblical characters and events. Using this method, he arrived at a very precise date for the first day of Creation, or so he thought.

But this guy made the same mistake that most atheists and many theists still make to this day — assuming that the King James version of the Bible is one continuous body of text in proper chronological order.

It is not. Never has been.

The Bible as we know it has been juggled and edited and scrambled in every manner you can imagine for nearly 2,000 years. You can't depend on its chronology, you can't match it to what we think is "proper" historical chronology, and you can't pick it apart to prove any given point because it's already been picked apart and reassembled many times over.

There is, however, some spiritually-uplifting value to the Bible — you can't tell me there isn't, because the thing is still the Number One Selling Book of all time. People seek it out for their own reasons, and everybody interprets it in his own way and comes away with his own nugget of spiritual value.

Atheists are never going to convert anyone away from the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions by methodically searching for typos and "contradictions" in the Bible. It's an absurd and futile task.

See, people don't go to the Bible seeking the Truth of Man. If they wanted the Truth of Man, they could simply pick up a newspaper and see how horribly we've screwed everything up and how horribly we govern each other.

Rather, people go to the Bible seeking answers to the things that Mankind can NEVER answer.

You can't argue the accuracy of a Bible that was never intended to be factually or chronologically or philosophically "accurate" in any sense that we can comprehend.

— Doc Velocity

You can't argue the accuracy of a Bible that was never intended to be factually or chronologically or philosophically "accurate" in any sense that we can comprehend.

There are alot of things i can say to your responses in your last post but I will only talk about this one right now.

Do you know the intentions of the Bible? If you do please enlighten us all? The Bible can be proven accurate all throughout history! Check the historical documents of every major ancient culture and you will find the events of the bible are located in other country's cultures! Crazy thought isnt it! I mean the Bible talks about a great flood and so do every ancient culture around the world!

The Bible is very easy to understand just take it with the mindset a child would take if you told them a story. They would take it without prejudice and would ask questions and would want to know more of the great question WHY?

I hope this makes sense to you

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN
You know whats funny! its that Satan or whatever name you want to give him wants you to reject "Faith" not religion but "Faith" in God and in Christ...

Aha, a progressive christian...ok, your type is tolerable....wish all christianity based people thought like you...the world would be a less bloody place.

The established church wants you to take the bible as the actual word of God, no influence of spirituality by a bunch of cavemen explaining the earth in their understanding, but the infallable word of God.

in that specific sense, then the bible can be disproven time and time again, completely anniliated, however, in these here modern days, "interpretation" was necessary to make sense of the bible and not completely dismiss it.

The problem is, now suddenly the interpretations are the word of God, bladda bladda etc.

Here is a simple contradiction though since you wish to try out your debunking skills.

Judges 1:19 talks about how God with with some chaps fighting a war..they kicked butt obviously because God was there (I reckon he had the shiniest shield)...but, suddenly, these iron chariots came and voila...God gets pwned.

Here is a guy, created the universe in 6 days from planets, divided the firments so that there is a bubble between the water below and water above (another story)...but suddenly some chariots come and his army gets slammed.

read before it, read after it, it is what it is. read the whole book...it simply is just that.

now, clearly God can defeat a bloody chariot...its God...he can turn the chariot into a pretzel with a thought if he wanted...so, what does that mean?
ooh, the bible is not infallable..the bible is corruptable...(and that could explain why theres soo many versions of something that is said...in the bible...cannot be corrupted).

The contradiction here is the actual book as a whole, not any one part, but the whole thing...either the bible is flawed, or God can be defeated by chariots...take your pick. if God can defeat a chariot, then the stories are wrote by people not inspired by God as stated...if he *can* be defeated by a chariot, then its still wrong because it means he is not even remotely all powerful.

The only thing that needs be said is that the bible, possibly a really nice uplifting book of morals and spirituality, is not a literal word of God...its some guys whom were about as spiritual as you and me establishing a religion to deny spiritual growth.

As far as the faith thing...I actually agree with you there...a personal connection to the divine is the important aspect, but heres the bit that will ruffle your feathers...some find their faith manifested in a book, some in crystals, some in simply having faith in their own kindness and divine nature...all paths are fine if they make you go towards the more perfect you in life and learn that you are actually part of God/Divine/creation.


or you can simply hold a book up and say a God that fears chariots is your religion

Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 arent even the same, ie things happen in different orders.

Bible = fail.

I suppose the poster who was talking about exi whatever reads the bible in its original language which would be necessary to do exiwhatever? Otherwise he should probably be vewy vewy quiet.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Here is a simple contradiction though since you wish to try out your debunking skills.

Judges 1:19 talks about how God with with some chaps fighting a war..they kicked butt obviously because God was there (I reckon he had the shiniest shield)...but, suddenly, these iron chariots came and voila...God gets pwned.

Here is a guy, created the universe in 6 days from planets, divided the firments so that there is a bubble between the water below and water above (another story)...but suddenly some chariots come and his army gets slammed.

read before it, read after it, it is what it is. read the whole book...it simply is just that.

now, clearly God can defeat a bloody chariot...its God...he can turn the chariot into a pretzel with a thought if he wanted...so, what does that mean?
ooh, the bible is not infallable..the bible is corruptable...(and that could explain why theres soo many versions of something that is said...in the bible...cannot be corrupted).

The contradiction here is the actual book as a whole, not any one part, but the whole thing...either the bible is flawed, or God can be defeated by chariots...take your pick. if God can defeat a chariot, then the stories are wrote by people not inspired by God as stated...if he *can* be defeated by a chariot, then its still wrong because it means he is not even remotely all powerful.

OK, before I get started I want to ask you a question... You do realize this specific passage is just an account of history correct?

Here is the text in question(specifically vs. 19):

17 Then the men of Judah went with the Simeonites their brothers and attacked the Canaanites living in Zephath, and they totally destroyed [c] the city. Therefore it was called Hormah. [d] 18 The men of Judah also took [e] Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron—each city with its territory.

19 The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots. 20 As Moses had promised, Hebron was given to Caleb, who drove from it the three sons of Anak. 21 The Benjamites, however, failed to dislodge the Jebusites, who were living in Jerusalem; to this day the Jebusites live there with the Benjamites.

22 Now the house of Joseph attacked Bethel, and the LORD was with them. 23 When they sent men to spy out Bethel (formerly called Luz), 24 the spies saw a man coming out of the city and they said to him, "Show us how to get into the city and we will see that you are treated well." 25 So he showed them, and they put the city to the sword but spared the man and his whole family. 26 He then went to the land of the Hittites, where he built a city and called it Luz, which is its name to this day.




Ok have you ever heard this type of phrase before? "The LORD was with the ____"

This goes back to the Observation stage in Exigesis (Observation, Interpretation, Application)

Thoughout the Bible this term is used often to show that the people in subject are in the spirit of the Lord. This is a commonly used phrase to represent the peoples attitude and their stature with the Lord. i.e. they are a Godly people (ever heard that phrase before?)

I am going to sound like a broken record player I know! this goes back to proper observation which will lead to a correct interpretation of which there is only 1 interpretation and multiple applications. Interpretation and application are the most commonly confused aspects of bible study! Even in a "Godly christian church"!

Please keep them coming

now thats the good stuff

Originally posted by watcher73
Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 arent even the same, ie things happen in different orders.

Bible = fail.

I suppose the poster who was talking about exi whatever reads the bible in its original language which would be necessary to do exiwhatever? Otherwise he should probably be vewy vewy quiet.

actually, I cant read or speak Hebrew or Greek. I am just one man that does alot of research and trust God to lead me down the right path.

Honestly, I pray for people like you who just debunk the bible as myth or whatever without even doing the research... So complacent and easily driven away from the flock (i know this is gonna sound bad) but your an easy kill for Satan... sad to say but when the day comes I hope I dont have to see you turned down because you rejected God but I have the funny feeling I will.

All I can do is point you in the right direction its your choice to look to God or look to yourself...

I read over and over when these sort of things are brought up, the believers always say "you cant take the bible word for word, it's an interpretation" so why do the other parts of the bible have any validity to it then? wouldnt the whole bible fall under the same rules? or is it just the parts that make it seem like a work of fiction?

Originally posted by ringing
I read over and over when these sort of things are brought up, the believers always say "you cant take the bible word for word, it's an interpretation" so why do the other parts of the bible have any validity to it then? wouldnt the whole bible fall under the same rules? or is it just the parts that make it seem like a work of fiction?

Again this comes down to the proper study of historical texts. Everybody these days claim its all in the interpretation... I want to enlighten you guys and gals that there is only 1 get that right 1 interpretation of any text! and that is the authors interpretation to his specific audience.

Taking the bible word for word is like taking any document or text word for word! YOU JUST DONT DO IT! It is a bad habit that us Americans and many english speaking people have gotten into. Like I said before many people confuse application and interpretation and that is often the case when someone says "it's an Interpretation" and I will point you back to one of my first posts of the term "Eisegesis" (I found the correct spelling YAY!). When you say this is your interpretation on any text you are committing Eisegesis!

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN
Do you know the intentions of the Bible? If you do please enlighten us all?

Well, again, here we are trying to discern the "intentions of the Bible," as if the Bible is one continuous work by only one author. It isn't.

If anything, the Bible as we know it is a selective compilation of writings, extracted from a larger body of ancient writings. So, do I know the intent of those who compiled the Bible using selected writings but not all the available writings? I think I can answer, "Yes, I do know their intent."

Any time Man compiles selected writings, it's because he wants to drive home a specific point, usually to empower his own political agenda. That agenda may include imposing his will and his governance on his fellow man. I think the Bible as we know it was selectively compiled out of numerous ancient writings in order to empower the fledging Catholic Church, giving it authority over Man.

No, I do not think the compiled Bible is closer to the true word of God than any of the other ancient writings that were excluded from the Bible.

Just for everyone's information, I'm a member of the Lutheran Church. You remember Martin Luther, I assume? The guy who essentially launched The Reformation of the Catholic Church because it was permeated with abuse of power?

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN
The Bible can be proven accurate all throughout history!

While anthropologists are uncovering more and more data on the historical "accuracy" of the Bible, we can't yet say "The Bible is historically accurate," simply because all the data isn't in. A lot of it IS accurate, but a lot of it is still shrouded in mystery.

Originally posted by APOCOLYPSE DAWN
The Bible is very easy to understand just take it with the mindset a child would take if you told them a story. They would take it without prejudice and would ask questions and would want to know more of the great question WHY?

I'm glad you brought that up, because I've found that children ask the hardest questions about the Bible.

For instance, every kid asks the question about the wives of Cain and Able. Where did these wives come from, if Adam and Eve were the very first people and Cain and Able were their first offspring?

Well, obviously, there were other people in the area. God didn't stop creating people with Adam and Eve. In fact, there were probably people BEFORE Adam and Eve.

Wow. How could that be?

Well, what we know about God from the Old Testament is that He has no qualms about wiping the slate clean (or partially clean) and starting over. That's what The Flood was all about. Also, apparently, Adam had a wife before Eve. What's more, it's possible that Adam and Eve were replacements for earlier prototypes who didn't work out. There's no saying that Adam and Eve were the only humans on Earth.

I mean, these questions are addressed in other ancient writings that were omitted from the Bible. But if you pick up the Bible thinking that it's a history book in proper chronological order, you're going to be sorely disappointed (not to mention confused).

— Doc Velocity




[edit on 10/21/2009 by Doc Velocity]