RADA graduate walks free over 'sleepwalk rape'

RADA graduate walks free over

www.dailymail.co.uk

A drama school graduate who told police he may have attacked a girl while sleepwalking was cleared of rape.

Nick Walker, 21, was accused of raping a 21-year-old woman during a sleepover at a student flat after a night out drinking.

The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art scholar initially told detectives he may have 'done it' in his sleep.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 21/10/2009 by VIKINGANT]

Is sleep walking considered a defense now? Will this case open the flood gates for crime waves?

I know of people that have done some amazing things in their sleep, from super human feats to just bizarre behavior but I dont think people should be getting away with crimes with this excuse.

Even he himself finds it wierd

When asked if he had raped the woman while sleepwalking, Mr Walker responded: 'I would definitely wake up before that point.

'I don't believe that I would do something like that and not wake up.'

'I felt like this weird sensation had woken me up. I have no idea how my clothes were removed.'

People who regularly sleep walk are usually aware that they do even if they dont always remember it. Often from friends or family telling them about their adventures, so for him to do something like this in his first 'experience' is a little too far fetched for me.

www.dailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

My immediate reaction is that I wondered whether he was the victim of someone else's actions. The story explains that this happened after a night out. I wonder if that a third party had intended to spike the drink of the girl but Walker ended up drinking the drink.

Also, again, someone accused of rape and found not guilty has his name splashed across the papers - and just see how mud sticks in this kind of situation! But not the accuser!

As a disclaimer, this response is only going off the verdict.

I think sleepwalking murder is possible
but not sleepwalking rape

I mean come on
first the person must penetrate
which for a sleepwalker does require some focus at least, think about it
and forcing the clothing off too

nope, i don't buy it

I have had dreams that i was having sex then when i wake up in the morning my girlfriend thanks me for a great night and im left lying in bed wondering what the hell happened with no memory of actually having sex for real.

So i can kinda relate to this and it kinda scares me a bit...lucky i have a girlfriend who loves it.

I starred and flagged this thread because i think it a subject that needs to be understood.

[edit on 21/10/2009 by SvenTheBerserK]

Sleepwalk rape is very possible, as is murder or theft or anything. To the person above saying how it would be easy to commit murder in your sleep but not sexual intercourse - are you kidding me? It's easier to kill somebody than to have sex with them?

Sleepwalking isn't like it is in the movies. You don't walk around like a zombie with your arms stretched out. You walk around like you are awake. To anybody observing you they would think you were awake and aware of your surroundings. You do things you would do when you are awake, you just aren't conscious you are doing them.

reply to post by VIKINGANT

Quote from article:
the woman, who cannot be named for legal reasons, had been out drinking with Mr Walker and other RADA students at the University of London Union bar in the centre of the city before they came back to sleep in the living room. She told the court she awoke to find Mr Walker was having sex with her.

Following his arrest he told officers: 'I can't remember physically doing it. I was not drunk and if I did do it, it was in my sleep.'

So some college students went out drinking in a group, and they next thing this girl knows, she's back at the dorm having sex with one of the guys. But he was so out of it that he doesn't even remember it.

Sounds to me like two people got very drunk, blacked out, and did some things they regret. Both the "rape" and the "sleepwalking" sound like excuses to me.

There is such a thing as sleep sex. People have sex in their sleep, sometimes violent and agressive and have no memory of it. I have this disorder myself and I posted a topic on it a couple of years ago. This isn't the first time something like this has happened.

Sleep sex is real, I know it for a fact. I went years without knowing I had this. You don't wake up knowing you did something. You have absolutely no memory of doing anything.

Although once you know you have sexsomnia, then you should take precautions. If you knew you had it and didn't take precautions and ended up raping someone, you should be punished for what you did. If you didn't know you had it, it's a terrible time to find out you do.

I feel bad for the victim. It's a terrible situation all around.

My dad sometimes will go outside for a cigarette at 2 or 3 in the morning, or go to the toilet or get a drink, and have no recollection of it and swears that he never gets up during the night. Yet almost every night he does. It must be pretty confusing to do things in your sleep.

Sexsomnia with a willing partner is one thing but rape requires force against an unwilling partner. If, in sleepwalking, you do the things you "normally" do, is forcing unwilling partners something this guy normally does?

"NO!" still means "no" whether the attacker is "asleep" or not.

reply to post by VIKINGANT


Did you read the article? He has done this before with his girlfriend. Simply because you cannot imagine having a problem like this or because you cannot comprehend someone else having a problem like this does not mean it is not a genuine problem that does not exist.

Also, it seems you are quoting him as saying: 'I felt like this weird sensation had woken me up. I have no idea how my clothes were removed.' In reality, it was the woman - who of course has no name - who said that.

I am so tired of women making stupid decisions and getting drunk with people they don't know or don't wish to know, then passing along the shame of the consequences that ensue onto innocent people - particularly men - in the form of crying rape. If you are so stupid that you put having fun over your own safety, then guess what? You deserve every bit of what is coming to you and I have no sympathy for you.

I am not endorsing nor excusing rape, and I am not saying that all men are falsely accused, but it is about time people start taking responsibility for their own stupidity. Not taking responsibility for your own stupidity is something many women are guilty of.

The legal system needs to be fixed in many areas, but the rape department is one of the worst. In situations like this where there are many drunk people in the same place, it is my belief that what ever happens - in terms of rape - happens for a reason and no criminal charges should be filed. When the only witnesses are a bunch of drunks, you cannot possibly hope to get a straight story. With no straight story and no evidence to distinguish between consensual sex and rape, the only reason these charges are ever filed is because the legal system - pandering to women - assumes all men are capable and guilty of rape.

Sexism at it's finest.

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
Did you read the article? He has done this before with his girlfriend. Simply because you cannot imagine having a problem like this or because you cannot comprehend someone else having a problem like this does not mean it is not a genuine problem that does not exist.

Exactly!

I'm glad someone here can think critically for themselves instead of just deciding it must be a lie and slandering the poor guy.

It's a real thing that really happens; that's why he is a free man.

Just because you never heard of it / never bothered to look into it, doesn't mean you are right about it. This website claims to deny ignorance but this thread supplies ignorance.

I did not at any stage say it wasnt a legit condition. I know many people that do this, including myslef and many of my family, some of whom are medically certified as sleep walkers. I could tell you some stories....but I wont. None of them however have engaged in illegal activities.

I am just concerned that publicising this case could very well open the door to so many future crimes being acquitted based on the 'sleepwalker defense'

reply to post by VIKINGANT


You said he did this in his first 'experience'. I pointed out that you are wrong because this is not his first experience; he has done this to his girlfriend.

"Sexomnia" is certainly not the typical form of sleepwalking you see on TV or in movies, but that does not dismiss it as a real problem.

I agree that people will attempt to use this as a legal defense more often now, but that is why you judge each case separately, not make broad sweeping generalizations about everyone involved simply because the 'crime' is similar.

In this particular case, the man has a history of this, not with strangers but with someone he loves, and the only witness to the "crime" was the "victim", who, by the way, was drunk. We throw people in jail for being drunk while driving, but then we accept people's testimonies of a crime that occurred while they were drunk? Which is it going to be? Are we going to say people who are drunk cannot make rational decisions and make sense of their surroundings or are we going to throw people in jail over their more than likely flawed version of what happened?

There was not nearly enough evidence in this case to say he raped her. It was her word vs his. That is not a sound basis for a criminal case.

Although I agree with your prediction that "sleepwalking" will become a common defense - at least in the short term - employed by men accused of rape, we already have a problem with the "I was drunk" excuse being used by women who are ashamed of what they did while drunk.

If that is what this woman did, it would not be the first time that excuse was used, and it certainly won't be the last.

Originally posted by virraszto

Sleep sex is real, I know it for a fact. I went years without knowing I had this. You don't wake up knowing you did something. You have absolutely no memory of doing anything.

I also have this condition. I was unaware of it until about 6 months ago, when I was sharing a bed with a female friend (and I stress that we are friends only). I had some very erotic dreams and the next day, she was very upset because I had been molesting her in the night. I couldn't believe what I was hearing, untill I spoke to an ex girlfriend about it and she confirmed that I would occasionally do it to her too, but she never mentioned it because she enjoyed it.

I have never gone as far as full sex in my sleep, but I couldn't rule out the possibility.

Eventually, my friend forgave me and believed, after my ex spoke to her that I was unaware of what I was doing, but needless to say, every time I've stopped at hers ever since I've insisted on sleeping on the couch!

reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi


I think any woman who falsely accuses a man of rape should get the same punishment the rapist would have gotten. And you're right about people taking responsibility for their own safety. "If you want to avoid the fruit of sin, stay out of the orchard!"

To me, it's a no-brainer that you don't go out drinking with guys and then go home with them. Even if you go home with them willingly at the time, your judgment is obviously impaired and you're not making rational decisions.

Like Vikingant, my concern with this story is that it will give criminal losers the excuse they need to carry out their criminal intents. If I ever catch myself in a situation requiring the use of force to fend off some drunken lech, I think I'll say that I ripped his lungs out when I was asleep. Didn't know what I was doing. Yeah, that's it. I don't remember a thing. Just woke up and there was some guys lungs on my floor. I felt like I was dreaming.

Accepting responsibility for your actions works both ways.

Originally posted by whitewave
Accepting responsibility for your actions works both ways.

Accepting responsibility for your actions does work both ways. I agree. But that is not the case here. Doing something stupid while under the influence of an uncontrollable medical condition is not the same as doing something stupid and intentionally and knowingly putting yourself in a vulnerable position.

As I said in my previous post, I also agree that this defense will be used by men accused of rape. But that is why each case should be judged differently. You cannot just assume every man accused of rape is guilty. By the same token, you cannot just assume every man who uses the sleepwalking defense is telling the truth.

Each case is different with different parameters and variables. That is why weighing all the evidence involved and attempting to understand the "why's?" of each individual case is important. If you want to give a fair trial, you cannot write rules on how each trial should be conducted. You have to adjust to each case as if it were unique and go forward from there.

In a perfect world, that is how our justice system would work. In our world, it's all about the money for both the prosecution and defense.

She could make a civil suit.

The crime requires intent. Intent was lacking. Damages, that is a whole other ball of wax.

I know someone that has had sex while sleeping. And I know that my guy has occassionally tried to get the moves on while totally asleep. Sex is instinctual.

I wonder if a bit of hypnosis would be enough to insert a stop button in for the person so effect?

I used to pee in the kitchen trash can when I was sleepwalking. I hope that I never raped it. And if I did, I hope nobody has pictures.

Yeah, I am not buying that sleepwalking defense. Check to see if he was on Ambien though.

Sounds to me like they were sleeping on the couch cushions on the floor together. In their sleep they became sexually aroused, and one thing led to another. She woke up just as it got to the main point, and stopped things right there, and he never woke up.

I think most people have had this experience with a partner. You are sleeping together, start having some erotic dream, next thing you know, you wake up in the middle of the act. For me, with women I have been sleeping with, as in sexual partners, I would wake up at that main event moment, and my partner was fully and willingly participating.

Sounds like this girl woke up and changed her mind. Sounds also like there was no attempt by him to force her to do anything, by her own testimony, so how can this be considered rape. She woke up, moved away from him, and he continued to sleep.

Maybe she initiated contact in the first place. He should charge her with attempted rape, and drag her name through the mud.