Where is the Left's apology to Bush?

Originally posted by thematrix
I have chemicals in my garage that are more deadly to more people in a greater area on a longer term then that shell they found.

No kidding. If anyone cares, the largest distributor of deadly SARIN in the world is WAL-MART.

Check the pesticides aisle.

Nice spin RANT.
Seems to me that there is a significant difference between the Sarin found in the shell and used in warfare then there is in the can of RAID, eh?
As to "pesticides," seems we have been finding quite alot of that, but certainly not in RAID form.
Even better, try this...good read:
Pesticides, Precursors, and Petulance





seekerof

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Undomiel

all the points you make about 'the enemy' can be thrown straight back at the USA, your looking at this strictly from an american point of view, i'm not an american (thank god for that), i would like to visit america yes, but would not wish to live there. i have lived in both Islamic and Western countries in my thus far short life. I get both points of view from people from both cultures. The greed of american corporate society is akin to the greed of rich dictators, just more subtle and 'legal' in the american sense. Alot of the people who post here defending the US 'liberating' these countries have no idea about the cultures of these countries and dont understand the US way of life does not work. The US administration knows this but ignores it so they can gain their wealth. I have no gripe with you, but keep in mind, your definition of poor is based on western standards, by western standards i'm not rich at all, in fact i'm probably quite poor, but i see myself as lucky as i earn more than many of my relatives who live in islamic countries and have families to support. In fact i'm actually in the top 10% of the richest people in the world (RICH LIST)... but hey this whole side conversation is completely off from this thread U2U me if we wanna keep this discussion up.

I have to look at it from an american point of view because,

Firstly, I'm an american!

Secondly, because I'm not in any way, shape or form, interested in living under islamic sharia law!

Thirdly, because I enjoy the freedom of religion I experience in this country and I know I would not find in groups like the Taliban and other places like Saudi Arabia.

Fourthly, Wahhabism scares the crap outta me, as I am female and their religion is exceedingly anti-female.

Fifthly, I know that terrorism is akin to a child throwing a temper tantrum because he/she can't win the argument by the normal methods, and as a result, the mindset is not a rational, functioning way of approaching life's problems. And if the terrorist also happens to be a meglomaniac, it will never end until it has achieved it's ultimate goal.

I have no other recourse but to support my country in these matters. To do otherwise, would be like shooting myself in the foot!

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Undomiel]

I'm not asking you to live under sharia law, and i'm not asking you to not support your country. But this 'war on terror' has gotten off track, i'll admt terrorism is a threat, but the war in iraq has gone off the original goal of defeating al-qaeda and catching osama, in fact i bet osama is laughing his ass off right now coz all this war is doing is driving more and more down trodden muslims to join al-qaeda and other groups with the same goals. Bush has doen the exat opposite of what the war on terror was supposed to do. He's used other countries support from the 9/11 attacks to drive his own interests. Terrorism is growing stronger and the main cause of this is the USA's actions (its unfair to blame bush, he has no idea what he's doing). If the US were to adopt a foreign policy that was less intrusive and little more fair to arab nations, then terrorism wouldnt be a problem for the USA, but the USA contiunes to piss more and more people around the world off each day, and i hate to say it, but your digging yourselves a grave by making the enemy stronger.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Meglomaniacs are the same the world over. It's the same mindset and it will never, EVER change. If 2 meglomaniacs meet each other to duke it out, I just hope the meglomaniac on my side wins! Not because I wish the others pain and suffering but because from my point of view (as a woman), the opposition's meglomania is a serious detriment to women everywhere. Did you read that rawa.org link in my post, 2 posts ago? These people aren't kidding around. They absolutely despise women. I don't want to provide them the means to make WMD either and Iraq stood to provide them that outlet. We have alot of intel on Saddam and the middle east, alot more than our secret service departments relate to the general public - and with good cause, since releasing such information would only serve to create an even bigger problem than the one you are trying to generate. See, you look at it as if more Al Queda is a bad thing. I look at it as if, we don't remove their power bases and their access to highly destructive weapons, my children, and most dramatically, my daughter, would be forced to live out their lives as muslims by DECREE, by mandate, by order of the sharia court. That's not a legacy I want to leave for future generations!



[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Undomiel]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Undomiel]

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Undomiel]

Reading all the responses from democrats, liberals and greens in this and other posts makes me realize why they are against Bush and the war on terror, nowadays in Iraq. They are clueless as to what has been happening in Iraq, how Saddam went to power and how the whole international community, up to the point when Bush said we were going to Iraq, said that "Saddam does have wmd" and wanted to do something about it, but when the time came to do something they decided to bash the coalition .

I am unable to fanthom how with their misinformed minds they still find ways to bash the administration and twist everything that Bush has said.

We have to be very patient with these people, since they are ignorant. Well, some are not well informed while others just keep bashing the government no matter what evidence is found and no matter how many ex-agents from different countries testify that Saddam did have WMD.

My guess is that they have no idea that if France, Germany, Russia and China among others sided with us against Saddam from the beginning they "would have been fighting a regime that was giving them moneyand the many interests they had with Saddam."

Reddragon, my guess is that you are too young to understand politics and how "dictatorships" work. Saddam was never alone, he had and there are still loyalists to his cause, just like Fidel Castro has, he was not the only one against millions of people.

Dictators work by sending messages to the masses that any insurgency will be met by "death," Saddam, Fidel and every other dictator that still live today and have lived in the past have used this same tactic. Anyone that says the first words about ousting dictators is either assassinated or is never heard from again by families and friends.

Saddam not only killed hundreds of thousands of his own people but he has invaded other countries in the past and he had been adquiring wmd after the gulf war, everyone in the international community agreed with this. But of course, when many of these countries saw that the coalition would overthrow Saddam from power and their interests (read money) would be affected for the worse with Saddam not in power in Iraq anymore they decided to bash the coalition.

Pretty much France, Russia, China and Germany were just trying to look good when they agreed, before the war, that Iraq had WDM, but when it was time to do something they showed their true intentions, they were just blabbering their mouths to look good to the international community.

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Muaddib]

Undomiel I am sorry to hear what happened to you and your family and I hope you and those that were affected in your family are better.

Muad'dib, Muad'dib, Muad'dib.

"Emperor! We come for you!"

Thanks

Undomiel

There is no evidence that any terror groups have any WMD's and there is little to no chance they will take over the world. as for sharia-law, it isnt actually an islamic teaching, its just countries intepret the teachings that way and abuse the qurans words. In less hardline islamic countries women are respected... but thats irrelevant... these group never wanted to 'take over the world' or destroy your way of life, what their goal is, is to drive the USA from muslim territory because of the negative effect the USA's presence has on their people. NOW may be different, since this has turned into a global issue. But to state that your afraid that you may have to live under sharia law is ridiculous, and just goes to show how paranoid, and fearful your government has made the US people since september 11, they keep you in fear so you wont question their judgment in whats good for you.

Actually, it was the afghani women at rawa.org that convinced me that wahhabism was not a good thing. Secondly what convinced me was that all of the middle east (with the exception of itty bitty israel), half of africa, parts of europe and asia are muslim nations where the population exceeds fifty percent muslim and in a huge percentage of those nations, sharia law has been installed - when the pop reaches fifty percent, they begin the call and demand for sharia law. Under sharia law, my word is worth less than half of a man's in a courtroom. And that's just for starters. If I was raped, I would have to generate eyewitnesses, and not just one, but enough to meet the sharia requirement for "a woman's word." The limitations on women are bad news.

Next what convinced me that the meglomania of some terrorists would never end is the situation for Israel. It's the only nation in the region that isn't islamic .. the only one. It's scary to think the war over that land is still going on when there are literally thousands of miles of land in every direction where the palestinians can live in peace with other arabs and muslims, but they just gotta have israel too. I knew then, terrorism + meglomania equals do or die, and they brought to our shores in the US now. They want us to do or die according to their dictates, regardless of what those dictates might be and no matter how "Fair" or "Unfair" it might be - as they aren't bound by the same rules of fairplay or democratic procedure or public opinion polls. They do as they will and to hades with the rest of us.

so 50% muslim population means sharia law does it? Have you ever been to malaysia, brunei, or indonesia (which is a terror haven mind you)? Indonesias president is female... doesnt sound repressive to me... malaysian women have huge amounts of freedom according to law (culture does have some limitations but there not that bad just things like modesty and what not, which christian societies have too)... so you 50% + theory is out the window...

I'm not getting dragged into an israeli-palestinian argument, but if mexico came and took texas and california, you;d expect the residents these to fight back wouldnt you? but your logic says that they have plenty of other land to move to so they should just let mexico walk all over them? how would you feel if someone came and bulldozed your house? would you say 'oh well i'll just move elsewhere' if you did i would have less respect for you than if you went out and fought for your land back

I said they begin the call for sharia when the country is at fifty percent muslim population. That's the first indicator that the country is about to become majority islam. IT's happening in europe as we speak. They also don't exercise birth control so their populations are growing. I read an estimate somewhere on the net that says islam will become the majority religion in the Netherlands within the next 5 years. If so, I give them another ten years tops before they'll be under sharia law and the non-muslim women of the netherlands will be running for the borders.

Mexico is fairly the same religion as americans and a similar nationality. They are primarily christian and a mix of a few others. Native Americans have the same claim as the palestinians but they aren't sending their children out to blow themselves up so they can recover territory they lost in war and deals gone wrong. Most people in the world are not meglomaniacs. It's the ones who are and do so under the cover of anonymity and without rules of any kind that render useless and of no effect, the hard efforts of the rest of us who strive to live according to the laws of our lands.

They have no honor

[Edited on 18-5-2004 by Undomiel]

hey dont call for Sharia law when the country is at 50% population, the three countries i quoted above are muslim countries with a majority islamic population and they dont call for sharia law, its not a religious thing its a cultural thing (sharia law that is). And yes muslims do use birth control where it is available and easily accesable. your post is full of generalisations, and from your quote about mexico being of the same religion, it doesnt matter the religion of the people involved you;d still want your land back. And the native americans did fight for their land, the fight is over and they lost. i dont like the fact but they did and its all dead and buried.

Its obvious here you;ve succumb to the mass-hysteria about islam and feel that this is a war on islam. its unfortunate you are part of the ignorant ranks of people who know nothing about the religion other than the propaganda fed to you by your leaders (political and religious)...

and please respond in u2u as this is off the topic of this thread

So there you have it. Bigotry and WMD do not go hand in hand. Want to give me a WMD? If you think I'm a bigot, then you'd be correct in your assumption that I should not have one. Since it didn't matter what or who was present when 9/11 occured, it's fairly safe to say just "americans" of any variety will suffice for the terrorists. I think I've made my point.

your right to the terrorists, americans of any type will suffice, i'm not defending the terrorists i'm defending islam. and thats just the terrorists point of view, not the point of view of the islamic world (although slowly the american foriegn policy is gradually turning more and more muslims to the path of terrorism). you made your point, but its a poor point unfortunately. I have no problems with people attacking terrorism, its just when they use generalisation and attack islam is where my problem lies, just as when people attack the western world for americas fault

Are you kidding saying that Sharia is not an Islamic teaching???

"Islamic Law�the Sharia

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Qur'an is the principal source of Islamic law, the Sharia. It contains the rules by which the Muslim world is governed (or should govern itself) and forms the basis for relations between man and God, between individuals, whether Muslim or non-Muslim, as well as between man and things which are part of creation. The Sharia contains the rules by which a Muslim society is organized and governed, and it provides the means to resolve conflicts among individuals and between the individual and the state.
...............
Muslim scholars do not consider Islam to be an evolving religion, but rather a religion and legal system which applies to all times. It is, therefore, the application that is susceptible to evolution. Indeed, the provisions of the Qur'an are such that by their disciplined interpretation, with the aid of the Hadith and Sunna and other sources of interpretation, Islam can, as intended, provide the solution to contemporary social problems. "









I was just writting about Sharia law in another thread, read it if you want to find out a bit more about some of the attrocities that are commited against women.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Also about what is happening in European countries read this thread.

"And Jews are not the only victims of France's new identification with radical Islam. In many French cities with a growing radical Islamist population, no teenage girl can go out in the evening, at least not without a full burqa. If she does, it will mean that "she is for everybody": in short, a whore. In the same cities, every teenage girl - regardless of religion - has to wear the Muslim veil if she does not want to be harassed or killed."

Excerpt taken from.
www.frontpagemag.com...

The thread can be found here.
www.abovetopsecret.com...







[Edited on 19-5-2004 by Muaddib]

I don't like bigotry either, but I live in a country where we have been issued an ultimatum by the islamic terrorists - to either concede to their demands or face annihilation regardless of our religion, age, sex, etc. What kind of response do you propose we have to such a threat?

They don't care as long as we surrender to their demands. And then when that's done, there would be new demands and more terrorism. And when that's achieved, there'd be more demands and more terrorism. The end goal being the removal of israelis from israel and inevitably islamic world domination. THAT'S WHAT MEGLOMANIACS DO, DEAR FRIEND. They won't stop at this latest demand. It will never stop. All we can do is stem the tide where the power centers are, and this is exactly what we did in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I never said sharia isnt an islamic thing, its a interpetation of the quran that some islamic countries use as law, it is not the case all over the islamic world. and the terrorist dont want world domination (not all of them i'm sure some do) they want the middle east (that i dont like i think israel has the right to exsist, just not at the expense ofthe palestian people). Its america that try to impose their ideals and beliefs on the rest of the world. Bush is a meglomaniac more so than the terrorists. Bush is the one who wants the american way of life to sweep the world, bush is the one forcing other nations to do as he says... whos the meglomaniac now? and for someone who doesnt like bigoty you sure generalise against islam alot