In wake of Gaza probe, how can Israel go to war again?

reply to post by fapython


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/bc06dfb3e37f.gif[/atsimg]

Symbol Type Neo-Nazi Symbol

General Racist Symbol

Symbol Description Three interlocking triangles

Also Known As Valknut, valknutr, Hrungnir's Heart

Traditional Use/Origins The Valknot, or "knot of the slain," often represented the afterlife in old Norse carvings and designs. It is often considered a symbol of Odin.

Hate Group/Extremist Organization Neo-Nazis, Racist Skinheads

Extremist Meaning or Representation See below

Background/History Some white supremacists, generally racist Odinists, have appropriated the Valknot to use as a racist symbol. Typically they use it as a sign to indicate a willingness to give their life to Odin, generally in battle. Nonracist pagans may also use this symbol, so it should be carefully examined in context.

hate_symbols/neo_nazi_valknot
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b5afe4d0c528.gif[/atsimg]

Care to explain your avatar perhaps you did not intend for it to be raciest but it is. And so are your views about Jews imo. I am Jewish and I DO NOT support Israel or its Zionism or its treatment of Palestinians as I don't support the Palestinians treatment of Israelis. So not all Jews are bad or do bad things.



On topic Israel will not care about the UN or its results of any probe they will as always continue on doing what ever it is they want to do imo.

EDIT to add an Opinion not to make a statement

[edit on 16-9-2009 by ashnomadonte]

reply to post by stevegmu


Do you have absolute facts about this, or are you just re-iterating frequently stated sentiments. Now the protocols run awfully true to the present world when it reflected nothing back then in tsarist russia, so either
A) The russians were a bunch of psychic fortune tellers who saw the future and wrote it down pinning it to the Jews.

OR

B) It is infact Jewish in origin and they have perpetrated the opinion that it is a forgery from tsarist russia to inspire anti-jewish hatred, in doing so, saving themselves and allowing for the continuation of their plans.

So as it runs more as a documentary of todays world then a piece of fiction im inclined to say that it is option B.
so please, think about the evidence before you go stating unfounded claims. Deny Ignorance

reply to post by fapython


you really need to go back to school man.

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Russian: "Протоколы сионских мудрецов", or "Сионские протоколы" ; see also other titles) is a tract alleging a Jewish and Masonic plot to achieve world domination. The book purports to be derived from "protocols" written by a secret group of Jews known as the Elders of Zion,[1] and underlies 24 protocols that are supposedly followed by the Jewish people. The Protocols has been proven to be a literary forgery and hoax as well as a clear case of plagiarism.

Origins and content
The book typically consists of 24 to 27 paragraphs or sections titled "Protocols". It has been published and distributed in many forms: manuscript, periodical, booklet, book and via the internet. It was first edited and disseminated to the public in 1903 by Pavel Krushevan, the instigator of the Kishinev pogrom. It was re-published in 1906-1907 by the Union of the Russian People, a part of the pro-Tsarist antisemitic group The Black Hundreds, as a pamphlet titled Enemies of the Human Race. The pamphlet was published specifically to blame the Jews for Russia's embarrassing defeat in the Russo-Japanese War.

It was first published in the English language in 1919 as two newspaper articles in the Philadelphia Public Ledger by journalist Carl W. Ackerman, but all references to Jews were replaced by references to Bolsheviks and Bolshevism.[15] Its first publication in the United States in its original antisemitic form was in 1920 in "The Dearborn Independent", a newspaper owned and controlled by Henry Ford, founder of the Ford Motor Company.

The Protocols in Nazi propaganda, 1930s-1940s
The Protocols also became a part of the Nazi propaganda effort to justify persecution of the Jews. It was made required reading for German students. In The Holocaust: The Destruction of European Jewry 1933–1945, Nora Levin states that "Hitler used the Protocols as a manual in his war to exterminate the Jews":

Despite conclusive proof that the Protocols were a gross forgery, they had sensational popularity and large sales in the 1920s and 1930s. They were translated into every language of Europe and sold widely in Arab lands, the United States, and England. But it was in Germany after World War I that they had their greatest success. There they were used to explain all of the disasters that had befallen the country: the defeat in the war, the hunger, the destructive inflation.

oh and for good mesure

Elements of the text in the Protocols were plagiarizations from the 1864 book, Dialogue aux enfers entre Machiavel et Montesquieu (Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu), written by the French satirist Maurice Joly. Joly's work attacks the political ambitions of Napoleon III using Machiavelli as a diabolical plotter in Hell as a stand-in for Napoleon's views. Joly himself appears to have borrowed material from a popular novel by Eugène Sue, The Mysteries of the People, in which the plotters were Jesuits. Jews do not appear in either work. Since it was illegal to criticize the monarchy, Joly had the pamphlet printed in Belgium, then tried to smuggle it back into France. The police confiscated as many copies as they could, and it was banned. After it was traced to Joly, he was tried on April 25, 1865, and sentenced to 15 months in prison at Sainte-Pelagie. Joly committed suicide in 1878.


Hermann Goedsche
Hermann Goedsche's 1868 novel, Biarritz (in English as To Sedan) contributed another idea that may have inspired the scribe behind the Protocols. In the chapter, “The Jewish Cemetery in Prague and the Council of Representatives of the Twelve Tribes of Israel”, Goedsche wrote about a nocturnal meeting between members of a mysterious rabbinical cabal, describing how at midnight, the Devil appears before those who have gathered on behalf of the Twelve Tribes of Israel to plan a “Jewish conspiracy”. His depiction is also similar to the scene in Alexandre Dumas, père's Joseph Balsamo, where Cagliostro and company plot the affair of the diamond necklace. With Biarritz appearing at about the same time as The Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu, it is possible that Goedsche was inspired by the ideas in Joly's pamphlet, especially in detailing the outcome of the cabal's secret meeting

en.wikipedia.org...

Deny racism

[edit on 16-9-2009 by ashnomadonte]

Oh but wate theres more!

The chapter "In the Jewish Cemetery in Prague" from Goedsche's Biarritz, with its strong antisemitic theme containing the alleged rabbinical plot against the European civilization, was translated into Russian as a separate pamphlet in 1872.[11] In 1921 Princess Catherine Radziwill gave a private lecture in New York. She claimed that the Protocols were a forgery compiled in 1904-1905 by Russian journalists Matvei Golovinski and Manasevich-Manuilov at the direction of Pyotr Rachkovsky, Chief of the Russian secret service in Paris.[25] Golovinski worked together with Charles Joly (son of Maurice Joly) at Le Figaro in Paris. This account, however, contradicts basic chronology of Protocols publication, as they were already published in 1903 in the newspaper Znamya. Catherine Radziwill was previously convicted of forging Cecil Rhodes' signature on a promissory note. She also authored numerous gossip and propaganda books. In 1935 Radziwill repeated her statement as a witness at the Berne Trial.

The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion
there you go enjoy

[edit on 16-9-2009 by ashnomadonte]

reply to post by ashnomadonte


i do beg your pardon, but that is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard.

Care to explain your avatar perhaps you did not intend for it to be raciest but it is.

I chose my avator who is woden btw, not odin, as i am anglo-saxon and it is one of the coolest avatars ive seen imo. I do not see how an earth anyone can take this picture to be racist and if they try and find ways to make it racist then theyre obviously on a witch-hunt. you've circled an image on the picture which is about 1% of the whole picture and claim it is racist because of that, which is a different image to the one you have sited, they don't even look the same. Also, for the record, i didn't notice that thing was there untill you pointed it out.

So instead of trying to refute my claims, which ive made with sound evidence backing them. You have sunken to the low form of Character assassination which is a tactic used by the soviet union to silent people who spoke the truth.

Also for the record, Racist is the 21st century version of Witch which the majority of people(white people) that is, are petrified of being called. It is natural to prefer people the same as you, it is what protected people and nations throughout history; without all the laws protecting it multiculturalism, diversity and anti-discrimination would all fall down, and the commonly thrown around slogan "Strength through Diversity" would be shown to be what it really is. a lie! Which history has shown us time and time again, a recent example being the Former Yugoslavia.

So next time, for people who are considering attacking someones character as a form of beating someone, take the high road and refute their claims with sound evidence to back it up.

reply to post by ashnomadonte


It was speculated that she was the author of a book gossiping about the German Emperor William II and Berlin society in 1884 under the pen name Paul Vasili.[2]

She stalked the English-born South African politician Cecil Rhodes and asked him to marry her, but he refused. She then got revenge by forging his name on a promissory note. She was convicted of forging Rhodes' signature and spent time in a South African jail for her crimes.[3][4]

Catherine Radziwiłł played major role in the history of antisemitic hoax The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. In 1921, she gave a private lecture in New York. She claimed that Protocols were compiled in 1904-1905 by Russian journalists Matvei Golovinski and Manasevich-Manuilov at the direction of Pyotr Rachkovsky, Chief of the Russian secret service in Paris.[5] Golovinski worked together with Charles Joly (son of Maurice Joly) at Le Figaro in Paris. This account, however, contradicts basic chronology of Protocols publication, as they were already published in 1903 in Znamya newspaper. Moreover, in 1902, Rachkovsky was dismissed from Paris Okhrana and returned to Saint Petersburg.

Her credibility is rather poor, as she forged mr rhodes signature on a promissory note as revenge for turning her down, and chronological events of its publication also contradicted her statement. It wouldn't be hard to believe that this person would open her mouth and state blatent lies for some sort of gain, financial perhaps in this circumstance.

Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by Eye On War

 

No offense, but when did Israel ever care what the UN thought about them? I say this not in a flippant way, but Israel what do whatever it deems in it's best interest, regardless of world opinion. There is not much hand wringing in Israel over it's treatment of Gaza.

The UN brought Israel into existance so don't think it should give a care? Plus isn't Israel part of the UN?

Here is some exerts from a speech by Benjamin Freedman (Former Jew)

World War I broke out in the summer of 1914. Nineteen-hundred and fourteen was the year in which World War One broke out. There are few people here my age who remember that. Now that war was waged on one side by Great Britain, France, and Russia; and on the other side by Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Turkey. What happened ?
Within two years Germany had won that war: not alone won it nominally, but won it actually. The German submarines, which were a surprise to the world, had swept all the convoys from the Atlantic Ocean, and Great Britain stood there without ammunition for her soldiers, stood there with one week's food supply facing her -- and after that, starvation.
At that time, the French army had mutinied. They lost 600,000 of the flower of French youth in the defense of Verdun on the Somme. The Russian army was defecting. They were picking up their toys and going home, they didn't want to play war anymore, they didn't like the Czar. And the Italian army had collapsed.
...
More

Mod Edit: No Quote/Plagiarism – Please Review This Link.
Mod Edit: New External Source Tags – Please Review This Link.
Do not simply post articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of an article, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the item.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Gemwolf]

Alternative Source


Mod Edit:
Do not simply post articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of an article, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the item.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Gemwolf]

Alternative Source


Mod Edit:
Do not simply post articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of an article, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the item.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Gemwolf]

More
...
Now, for anyone to say that -- I don't like to use the word 'anti-Semitism' because it's meaningless, but it means something to you still, so I'll have to use it -- the only reason that there was any feeling in Germany against Jews was that they were responsible: number one, for World War One; number two, for this world-wide boycott, and number three -- did I say for World War One, they were responsible? For the boycott -- and also for World War II, because after this thing got out of hand, it was absolutely necessary for the Jews and Germany to lock horns in a war to see which one was going to survive.
In the meanwhile, I had lived in Germany, and I knew that the Germans had decided [that] Europe is going to be Christian or Communist: there is no in between. It's going to be Christian or it's going to be Communist. And the Germans decided: "We're going to keep it Christian if possible". And they started to re-arm.

And there intention was -- by that time the United States had recognized the Soviet Union, which they did in November, 1933 -- the Soviet Union was becoming very powerful, and Germany realized: "Well, our turn is going to come soon, unless we are strong." The same as we in this country are saying today, "Our turn is going to come soon, unless we are strong."
And our government is spending 83 or 84 billion dollars of your money for defense, they say.Defense against whom ? Defense against 40,000 little Jews in Moscow that took over Russia, and then, in their devious ways, took over control of many other governments of the world.

-End of Excert-

So we can see here the manipulating and treacherous hands the jews played in the 2 world wars and how germany was not the cause of the devastating world wars (a part of the protocols).


*ps* I apologise for the layout of this excert, I had to get it off a pdf not a webpage.

Mod Edit: Ex tags.


[edit on 16-9-2009 by Gemwolf]

Israel does what it wants when it wants. Israel answers to no one, mark my words nothing will come of any crime Israel commits. Same goes for the US, they kill as they please.

You're on a roll lol. You got a star and flag for this one too.

[edit on 16-9-2009 by Sundancer]

reply to post by fapython


What would make you prejudiced is the fact you continue to lump all Jews together in a giant melting pot of doom.

I'm telling you here right now that there isn't any such Jewish Conspiracy. There may be some Jews who are CEOs in the Infotainment industry, much of which is owned by Japanese Sony, but it has nothing to do with Jews as an entire people.

There are all kinds of Jews. The highly religious Jews, the Haredim aka the Ultra Orthodox are not wealthy Jews and are in fact one of the most hated groups of people in Israel. The Hasidim are part of the Haredim. The Hasidim are some of the most spiritual people on earth and are not wealthy.

You have to know and understand this. There are Reform Jews, Secular Jews, and Conservative Jews. Many of those in the Infotainment business arn't even religious. Many are atheists or agnostics. You bring up the Talmud but many of these wealthy Jews could care less about old religious texts. Even of the religious wealthy some of them only attend synogogue once or a few times a year on High Holy Days.

These are all very different people. Secular Zionists persecuted Haredim in the buildup to 1948. The Haredim adamantly stood opposed before 1948 to the creation of Israel. Even now many still do not agree with Israel.

Jews are a very broad and diverse bunch of people. There are Jews that are Kenyan and Jews that are Chinese. There are Jews that are secular and liberal. There are Jews who are conservative and religious. Some are wealthy and the majority are poor. The only thing that unites them are their histories. Thats it. There are no super secret Joo Lodges of Doom with Super Secret Joo Decoder rings for super secret Joo Codes.

To believe and even worse spread that belief that there is any sort of Jewish Conspiracy is absolute and unequivocal insanity. It is the real Witch Hunt of mindless, ignorant and overactive imaginations.





[edit on 16/9/09 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


To deny that there is a jewish conspiracy is to deny the truth, and is nothing but blind idiocy. There is far to much evidence pointing to the existance of the conspiracy to feasibly deny it. From the English revolution, to the French and the Russian and the other European revolutions during that time. They brought forward the culture of cultural genocide against every single nation in the western world, and any country who would say otherwise was harshly punished and in the end destroyed.

To keep on denying evidence, one has to question your motive in this situation, whether you are a hardcore zionist, an indoctrinated fool or a mossad or elder plant ?

reply to post by fapython


Here are some real facts to ponder:

Haredim Jews: Poor, devout and isolated

Haredim are poor compared with other Israeli Jews: 60% of Haredi men do not have regular jobs and prefer religious study. More than 50% live below the poverty line and receive state benefits compared with 15% of the rest of the population. A separate education system is heavily subsidised. Haredim are also young, with families of seven to eight children common. Haredi men wear black or caftans and fur-lined hats on holidays, even in scorching heat. Women cover their heads and dress modestly.

www.guardian.co.uk...

Haredim and Zionism

After World War II many Jewish refugees found themeselves in displaced person camps. The Zionists controlled a camp for Jewish refugee children in Tehran where they operated an anti-religious policy in an effort to cut off Haredi children from their spiritual roots. To a large extent they were successful, and many children from Haredi homes were dispatched to irreligious settlements.

en.wikipedia.org...

The first Kibbutzim (Communal Farms) originated in Marxism and Marxist Zionists. These farms were staunchly atheist. The Marxists have always opposed the Haredim and Judaism.

These Marxists stood against and still do stand against everything that defines Judaism. Yet for prejudiced people they can't see the truth of the matter. People are so blinded by their own hate that they can't see the Marxists. Instead all they see are Jews.

The Judeophobes need to get their heads out of their arses, open their eyes and see the light. The Marxists don't care about Judaism and the Objectivists like Alan Greenspan don't care for Marxism or the Orthodox. They all hate each other.

[edit on 16/9/09 by MikeboydUS]

reply to post by MikeboydUS


Im going to caveat on to you if you don't mind good sir.
Below you will find pictures of Jews protesting Zionism. Yes I said Haredi Jews Protesting Zionism
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8481984e4178.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/40235b700a73.jpg[/atsimg]

Look they can deny ignorance fapython when will you?



[edit on 16-9-2009 by ashnomadonte]

Originally posted by fapython
reply to post by MikeboydUS

 

To deny that there is a jewish conspiracy is to deny the truth, and is nothing but blind idiocy. There is far to much evidence pointing to the existance of the conspiracy to feasibly deny it. From the English revolution, to the French and the Russian and the other European revolutions during that time. They brought forward the culture of cultural genocide against every single nation in the western world, and any country who would say otherwise was harshly punished and in the end destroyed.

To keep on denying evidence, one has to question your motive in this situation, whether you are a hardcore zionist, an indoctrinated fool or a mossad or elder plant ?

To believe there is a Jewish Conspiracy is to deny truth and blind idiocy.

Is there a Marxist Conspiracy? Yes there are Marxists conspiring in the name of Marxism, but what does that have to do with Jews. Saying many Marxists were Jews but denying the fact the not many Jews were Marxists is False Logic. Many Nazis were German does that make all Germans Nazis? NO! That is stupid false logic.

Do you not see what happened in some of those Revolutions? Especially France and Russia. You have atheist libertines in France inflitrating Masonic institutions and atheist Marxists inflitrating Russian Jewish communities. Who are these atheists that hate Jews and Masons? Who are these atheists that pushed for Social Darwinism and Eugenics? Who are these atheists that gave birth to the greatest horrors in human history: Communism and National Socialism?

My motive is the truth and to deny ignorance. I am not Mossad. I am in the US military and a combat veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't care if its the mainstream denying Fortean events or Judeophobes denying reality.


[edit on 16/9/09 by MikeboydUS]

Hmm this thread is much tidier without fapython's Jew-hating Nazi propaganda. Three cheers for the ignore button!

As for the Goldstone report, I haven't read it but from what I've heard it's pretty much what was expected isn't it? The UN accused Israel of war crimes, and the UN found Israel guilty. Since both Israel and Hamas refused to cooperate with the investigation it was fairly pointless anyway.

Someone above said that the UN created Israel. This is far from the truth. Jews created Israel, with their own sweat and blood. The UN recognised it and accepted it as a member, eventually. But before that they put Britain in charge of administering the region, who did everything they could to block the creation of a Jewish state by seeking to limit refugees entering the country in order to appease the Arabs. That cost a lot of Jewish lives during and after the holocaust.

And that was back in the days when the UN actually meant something - "United" nations in this day and age is like a sick joke.

I wouldn't be surprised if Israel leaves the UN in the near future, and if the West has any backbone then the rest of us should follow suit. I'll be writing to the future British PM (Cameron) to suggest just that.

reply to post by Eye On War



I have to agree with some others here and say that Israel will not be seen before a court.
In a fair and just world, they should be, as should Bush, Cheney and Rice, but it'll never happen.

We all knew what was happening on the ground in Gaza, we knew at the time what Israel was doing. If we knew that at the time, governments around the world knew more. And they still completely failed to act.

It means nothing. Israel will stamp their feet and proclaim innocence. They'll accuse everyone of everything while denying the evidence against them. They'll produce any number of lies and blatantly deny the facts, while attacking anyone who questions them.

Even their spokespeople seem completely brainwashed. They actually look like they believe what they say.

I hope I'm wrong, because I would love nothing more than to see Israel answering for their crimes against Humanity.
Unfortunately, I just don't see it happening.

reply to post by mattpryor


The UN is an absolute joke. Its become the League of Nations prior to WW2. Its been a failure in everything from diplomacy to humanitarian relief. Sure its a helped a few, but its overwhelmingly failed the many.

The majority of humans on this planet lack human rights, civil rights, food, medicine, education, and any liberties. Since the creation of the UN, the situation has only gotten worse. Africa is still getting raped by its own leaders and foreign industries. China is still oppressing over 1 billion people and helping in the rape of Africa, especially in Sudan. Corrupt dictators and despots fill committees at the UN. Its become a joke dominated by third world tyrants who are quick to accuse Israel for anything, but refuse to help their own people. A giant circus for hypocritical failing states to make Israel into a scapegoat for all of their problems.

Instead of criticizing Israel most of them need to look in the mirror and fix themselves.

A giant fiasco that really needs to be abandoned. The US and Britain should form their own United Commonwealth and let the UN rot.

[edit on 16/9/09 by MikeboydUS]