911 reasons why 9/11 was an inside job

You didn't answer my question, just more insulting generalizations...
So I will repeat it...

Why was the Bin Laden Construction Group, a favored contractor of Yamasaki, on site during the construction of the WTC complex asking about where to plant explosives, and what do you suppose David Rockefeller meant when he said "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.", bearing in mind it was David and Nelson Rockefeller that pushed for the construction of these towers through the Downtown-Lower Manhattan Development Association which he founded?

Originally posted by twitchy
You didn't answer my question, just more insulting generalizations...
So I will repeat it...

Why was the Bin Laden Construction Group, a favored contractor of Yamasaki, on site during the construction of the WTC complex asking about where to plant explosives, and what do you suppose David Rockefeller meant when he said "We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order.", bearing in mind it was David and Nelson Rockefeller that pushed for the construction of these towers through the Downtown-Lower Manhattan Development Association which he founded?

where did you dig up that little gem?
Source please?

Bin Laden construction asked where to put explosives in the WTC 30 freaking years ago!

No offense but, did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Fun Facts! Osama Bin Laden was.......... about 10 years old during WTC construction. Osama did not become radicalized till the late 1980s- early 1990s. Oh and try to have NON-union workers do anything in NYC on building highrises during the 60s and 70s. Even now.

Originally posted by GenRadek
No offense but, did you just fall off the turnip truck?

Yeah, actually I fell off the turnip truck Sept. 11 2001. I said Bin Laden Construction Group not Osama Bin Laden, but you damned well know that, and I recognise and utterly despise your juvenile tactics. Can you address the question now without insulting me or my intelligence? No, apparently not, so you're wasting my time.
You want a source, then by all means, go and fetch one, I'm not responsible for your ignorance, only my own.

Originally posted by twitchy

Yeah, actually I fell off the turnip truck Sept. 11 2001. I said Bin Laden Construction Group not Osama Bin Laden, but you damned well know that, and I recognise and utterly despise your juvenile tactics. Can you address the question now without insulting me or my intelligence? No, apparently not, so you're wasting my time.
You want a source, then by all means, go and fetch one, I'm not responsible for your ignorance, only my own.

Ah I see, so allegedly, the Bin Laden Construction company worked on the WTC 30+ years ago. And by this, you are trying to use innuendo that somehow this is the "smoking gun" for 9/11, and that bombs were planted by the company 30+ years ago. That is what you are implying by posting this. I'm not insulting your intelligence. You are doing a good job on your own.

Please do not insult MY intelligence. I can see right through you. You said the Bin Laden company worked on the WTC and they planted bombs. However, Osama is the only black sheep of the family, and he was much too young. So why did you bring up this garbage claim that Bin Laden Company worked on the WTCs building, and they planted bombs? And what source did you dredge that from?

Originally posted by GenRadek
...this garbage claim that Bin Laden Company worked on the WTCs building,...

Wow, you've really done your research haven't you? That's really impressive, as to where I got that 'little gem', well radek, you see, I spent alot of time researching and looking things up. If you think I'm just going to hand over my hard earned sources so you can make more generalizations and ignorant assertions about them as well, you're debating the wrong ATS'er. I took two years of Debate, and Public Speaking, and I don't fall for that onus or burden of proof crap like some others will. I will give you a hint though, you can start with the public freaking records.
This is just one 'little gem', and you if you can't even address it with some assemblance of decorum and a little umph in the direction of research, it's going to be a long thread for you man.

I'm having a debate on another website about 9/11 and I'd like to ask assistance from the well-informed people on this board who know the details about that particular conspiracy. Would some of you please log in to this message board and school these sheep on why 9/11 was an inside job. Thank you.

www.wackbag.com...


Moderators, please don't delete this post; it's not like any ATS members are going to abandon ATS for a message board that's got nothing to do with conspiracies. It's only one thread, in which the board members are sure 9/11 was done by Arab terrorists led by Osama bin Laden from his cave. If anything, this mission will attract more attention to ATS, since I'm visiting from the message board of a popular radio show, whose hosts interact with their audience. Thank you for your courtesy.

Part 3: Osama bin Laden
www.russiatoday.com...

sample:

Let’s imagine that a mass murder has been committed in Smalltown, America and the suspect is at large. Where is the first place the investigators will invariably go to search for clues as to either the whereabouts of the killer or his or her motives? Yes, to the immediate families of the suspected killer. So why did the US authorities let the immediate kin of bin Laden escape on planes out of Dodge?

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by GenRadek
...this garbage claim that Bin Laden Company worked on the WTCs building,...

Wow, you've really done your research haven't you? That's really impressive, as to where I got that 'little gem', well radek, you see, I spent alot of time researching and looking things up. If you think I'm just going to hand over my hard earned sources so you can make more generalizations and ignorant assertions about them as well, you're debating the wrong ATS'er. I took two years of Debate, and Public Speaking, and I don't fall for that onus or burden of proof crap like some others will. I will give you a hint though, you can start with the public freaking records.
This is just one 'little gem', and you if you can't even address it with some assemblance of decorum and a little umph in the direction of research, it's going to be a long thread for you man.

Well I have searched online, and the only place I found anything on it is a joke of a sight with virtually ZERO evidence, aside from "I heard from a guy who knows a guy, who cuts his sister's half-brothers hair."
So you are not going to give me ANY sources then eh? Why is that? afraid they'll be torn to shreds? You know, all of you demand a source for every damned little fact or claim from us, yet you wont even provide a source for your ridicules claims or joke of evidence. You claim that allegedly the bin Laden family business planted bombs over 30 years ago in the WTC. Now either BACK THAT UP WITH FACTS or retract your silly garbage and stop spreading disinfo and lies.

You know for all your "credentials" you sure cant lead a decent argument. So again, either back up your claims or retract them. Simply stating "go look it up yourself" is no way to win an argument. I wonder if that is how you behaved during debates in school. "Well, I won't tell you where I got my information from, so look it up yourself!" I'll bet the judges loved you.

reply to post by GenRadek


LOL you only found one site that mentions the Bin Laden Construction Group being on site during the construction of the WTC, and then after brandishing your ignorance and out of hand dismissal of this information, proceed to ramble on with your usual generalizations and insults, demanding I retract my statement. Sure thing, I demand that you drink the Niagra River.

As to why I have no inclination to provide YOU with my sources, first off, this isn't a formal debate, it's somebody else's thread, and it is because we have posted sources for this information here on ATS before. If you're too inept or stubborn to do a simple site search here or at least browse around on google, then I have consequently deemed this debate not worthy of the effort in typing them again. If anyone else had asked, I would have been glad to post my sources, I generally do... but you, you genuinely deserve admonishment and apparently could use some research skills, you may not see it, but I'm doing you a favor by not posting them here. It's the same reason I don't feed my pets from the kitchen table, and I'm not your gopher.

Ok so you didn't know about the Bin Laden construction group and failed to debunk it, don't feel bad, it probably wasn't on your talking points and alot of people didn't know about it either, that's why we call it research. So for your benefit, we'll find something easier to start with. Let's examine another 'little gem' then, this one won't be too hard for you to find because it has a picture that identifies the original source...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/eaf86a0c094a.jpg[/atsimg]

A few seconds after the impact of the second tower, there was a huge explosion in the area between the North Tower, WTC 1, and WTC 7, an area commonly known as WTC 6. That explosion would gut even the basement levels of the building and leave a massive crater about eighty foot deep in the center of the building. This happened before either of the towers collapsed, and it was broadcast live on television.

Assuming no Jet Fuel ran down the elevator shafts of the towers and walked across to WTC 6 to cause this massive explosion, would you care to explain that event to us unenlightened masses. Get a real good hard look at that crater General, that happened before either tower collapsed.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/783d7ee48fcf.jpg[/atsimg]

Looks alot like the remnants of another job CDI worked on a few years before in Oklahoma, but we'll get to that 'little gem' after you debunk this one and the Bin Laden Construction Group one. Your homework is piling up, I told you it would.

Edit:

Originally posted by GenRadek
You know, all of you demand a source for every damned little fact or claim from us

Who is 'us' anyway Radek?
I hope you're not one of those NSA guys getting paid to go around and disrupt forums.
I'd like to have a talk with whatever appropriations committee signs those paychecks because they've been wasting some serious budget on some these guys lately. Tell them to send me the money instead, and I'll retire from conspiracy theories, and they don't have to worry about loosing their E4 specialist rating or looking like tom turkeys in Thanksgiving parade.

[edit on 17-9-2009 by twitchy]

reply to post by twitchy


Oh this is just fantastic. So not only do you have NO evidence of Bin Laden Construction Company being there, other than because you say so, you are claiming that they are responsible for planting bombs in WTC during construction.
The only garbage site I found is this one:
kentroversypapers.blogspot.com...
which is then repeated word for word in other conspiracy sites. THIS is your proof?

Also, what is the big deal that even IF a representative of Bin Laden Construction was anywhere near the construction site of the WTC, what proof do you have they did anything sinister?
Just parroting what some conspiracy site said, from a source that is less then credible is not proof of anything, other than gullibility. Its up to YOU to prove they planted anything. But before that, YOU have to explain how it would even work. Explosives degrade over time. In fact many explosives degrade quickly once exposed. That makes them either less capable of going off properly, or even less stable, that the slightest tremor or vibration can set them off. What about the connections? The wiring? The whole set up? I'll bet $100 you have no idea about the ramifications in even attempting to do something like that.

Now, I love that little composite picture. Just goes to show how someone like you can swallow complete garbage hook, line, sinker, and pole. That picture is DELIBERATELY edited to spread DISinfo to the gullible. First off, the picture composite is showing the COLLAPSE of WTC South. The COLLAPSE. Not just after impact with some secret special magic explosions. In fact, maybe you can explain why in every video around the WTC during and just after the second impact, there werent any massive explosions or dust as reported or seen, but only after the collapses. In fact, that whole picture itself is a joke. sorry, you've just been debunked.

The craters are even simpler. did you pay any attention to the collapses? What debris was falling? The external columns are what created those "craters". No explosions before collapses, nobody noticed anything of the sort, but a few thousand tons of steel falling from 1,000ft will do some damage. Another disinfo lie debunked. Are you taking this nonsense from infowars? Or some other lying scumbag of a conspiracy site that preys on the uneducated and gullible? Cause if this is what you are going to use to try to get me, then I would recommend you just stop now, cause this will be like shooting fish in a barrel with a rocket launcher.

Here's a high resolution photograph of the remains of WTC 6,



Notice the huge crater? Keeping in mind that all that debris from the collapse of WTC 1 hit the area immediately around this crater, it didn't manage to dig an eighty foot EMPTY round hole into the rest of the area. Falling steel doesn't excavate 80 foot craters and then leave them empty and near symmetrical. Large explosions ejecting building material upwards and outwards can though, and it's hard to debunk a crater dude.

I watched CNN live the morning it happened, and I remember the footage, and I remember seeing the plume, but not what time this footage was broadcast. From what I've read however, CNN confirmed the time of that footage was just after the second impact, but you say it is during the collapse of WTC 2. Well let's look a little better at the picture then, and ask ourselves how do you reckon CNN's angle on this shot managed to hide the entire left side of this going on behind WTC 1 then? See the black smoke rising from the lower right impact area of WTC 2, see how it stays in the same spot through the frames, how does it do that if it's collapsing Radek and why is the smoke still a single black plume, like it was right after the impact? The huge dust cloud you see in the pic comming from the area of WTC 5 and WTC 6, not WTC 2, it is an explosion. If I'm not mistaken, it was reported as 'some kind of explosion'.

Regardless of when the footage was shot, that huge plume of rapidly expanding debris is comming from where these strangely round empy craters were found.

What's the Official Story's take on the blast craters found in WTC 5 and WTC 6, and where did all the material from the eight floors of WTC 6 go? Where did all the falling debris that supposedly punched this round vertical hole go? It's an empty crater. If massive of piles of falling steel and debris caused these holes in WTC 5 and WTC 6, why isn't there massive piles of steel and debris on the remainder of the rooftops of these buildings and why are these craters instead of rubble piles?

So you don't care if the Bin Laden Construction Group was on site or not, but you have chosen to spend the last couple of your posts claiming I am spreading disinfo and demanding I retract it? If you only found one site as a source for this assertion, you really didn't look that hard then because I just googled it and found 7,770 relevant hits with three key words words. Keep digging, you'll find something I'm sure.

You haven't debunked the glaringly obvious blast crater in WTC 6, you haven't provided anything to demonstrate the time of this footage being incorrect, and you stated it doesn't matter if Bin Laden Construction group was on site or not. That's cool with me because it obviates to the rest of the group here that arguing with you is a waste of time. But all is not lost, if I can keep you busy typing here, maybe you won't have the time to read the really important threads and disrupt them.

Next week's assignment will probably be in regards to the extensive improvements and inspections done to the WTC complex by Turner Construction Company prior to 9-11, how their company's president rose to the high position of Mayor of a major US city, and how they might have had unique access to Navy Seal Demolitions Equipment... or we might go into the whole Kroll, John O'Neil, Jerome Hauer thing, or maybe even into the intelligence operations conducted at various flight schools that go all the way back from Oswald and JFK up Mena AK and Iran Contra to Mohamed Atta, you never know... so study up.

[edit on 18-9-2009 by twitchy]

reply to post by twitchy


Yes I have seen WTC 6 countless times. What do I see in it? large chunks of WTC1 and 2 inside of it. Also, notice how relatively symmetrical the holes are all the way through?

CNN was showing the collapses of WTC South collapsing. That picture still is from video of the first collapse. Not from "just after the impact of the second plane." That is a load of garbage. In fact, watching other CNN video from that day, you see the nearly the same smoke plum a the base just AFTER the collapse. And guess what else? In all footage taken of the second impact, no massive explosions are heard at WTC6, none are ever seen on video, and no one ever mentions any massive crater blasting explosions seconds or minutes after the second impact. NONE.


Also that cloud of debris is TALLER than WTC7! How the hell did everyone else miss that AFTER the south tower was impacted?? Why isnt this massive cloud of debris from an alleged "explosion" at WTC6 ever seen on the countless other TV, video, amateur, helicopter footage from the second impact till the first collapse?
Pay close attention here:


The cloud appears after the collapse hits the ground.
Show me footage taken between the second impact and the first collapse that shows unmistakeably the large explosion and "debris cloud" from the "WTC6 explosions". Even one to two minutes AFTER the impact. I'll be waiting.

As for Bin Laden Construction Company, what moron brought up THAT idea in the first place? Was it substantiated by any facts? Any evidence? Or did some guy proclaim it and say he heard it from another guy? 7,700 hits for Bin Laden Construction and WTC? Really? In google and yahoo? Were they all relevant or are they all bits and pieces? Here is what I found:
search.yahoo.com...
Google same crapola.
Now do I have to explain to you how to use and understand search engine hits and how to interpret the results? Cause seriously, you are obviously either A) lying through your teeth or B) have no clue how to interpret search engine hits.
Well after a few hours of wasted time, I only managed to find the same garbage posted by the same moron on at least 5-6 different conspiracy sites, including chemtrailcentral.com and that kentroversypapers.com site. The same garbage pasted word for word. So no, back to square one, there is no proof of Bin Laden Construction Company working on the WTC at all, no evidence of built in bombs or anything, no real sources, or sites, just one article written by a person whose credibility I question. So either you show me where exactly it says BLCC worked on WTC or shut up and retract it.

Oh yippie, more conspiracy nonsense. please, you havent even done anything other than show how well you regurgitate nonsense from websites that have either been debunked long ago or are non-existent. And your incredulity is noted as well. I thought they taught you that incredulity in debates is frowned upon and in no way negate facts or serious questions.

reply to post by GenRadek


I guess maybe you missed the question so I'll ask again...

Originally posted by twitchy
Here's a high resolution photograph of the remains of WTC 6,



Notice the huge crater?... why are these craters instead of rubble piles?

Where is the debris, or the rest of WTC 6? It's a real simple and legitimate question, because this is a huge 80 foot deep hole with nothing in it. You keep saying it's full of debris from WTC1, well I say it's not, call me crazy, but I say it's a hole. Holes don't have much in them, that's why we call them holes.
If you don't believe me you make one yourself by trying this simple experiment at home, or at work if you're authorized... Find a shovel and then poke the tip of it into the ground and place your foot on the back edge of the shovel and drive it forcefully into the ground and then pry upwards to remove dirt. Set this dirt to one side and observe the empty sapce left behind, that will be what is, in layman's terms, called a hole.
I'll even go a step futher and speculate that it's a blast crater, which would explain the emptiness of the hole and the huge debris cloud arising from that exact area, regardless of when the footage was broadcast.

I also noticed you claiming that there were no explosions prior to the collapses of WTC 1 and WTC 2?

I have to admit he did a good job of stringing it all together nicely.

I still can't believe that while faced with this many holes in the official fairytale, military generals questioning the official fairytale, omission commission officials stepping down, the thermate being confirmed, etc etc that people still actually defend the official fairytale.

How long can a human cling to desperate strands of a fabricated reality that is slowly coming apart at the seams more and more everyday?

The real scary question is how many new admissions to psychiatric hospitals will there be when the truth finally comes out and the reality of all the fairytale defenders crumbles at their feet?

That actually bothers me alot, the harder they force themselves to believe something that isn't real, the harder it will be for them when it all comes out. It's another whole string of tragedy waiting to happen, on the heels of the first tragedy.

Unfortunately for them, the misery and suffering hasn't even yet begun.
Remember what it felt like when you had your epiphany moment and fell down the rabbitt hole? That pit in the bottom of your stomach? Not wanting to eat, or being able to sleep? Wanting to strike out at something, and withdraw into yourself at the same time? Feeling the ground drop out from under your feet as your realize that a rogue faction within your own government is flat out evil, and will gladly kill your fellow Americans without blinking? That feeling of nausea as you slowly begin to grasp that an entire war, the patriot acts, gitmo, all those lives ended, destroyed, and torn apart... all over the worst crafted lie in the history of the planet?

Yeah me too.

Now imagine how hard it will be on them, to have to accept all of that and have to accept the fact that they helped these people after the fact by spreading their lies. Not to mention how hard it will be because of the fact that this is their reality that we're talking about here.

I really feel for all of you, you're going to have it harder than most of us did.

reply to post by irongunner


You're missing the point I believe. The point isn't that anyone knows what happened, although many have put forth complete theories. The point is that there are unanswered questions that nobody will address. There are holes in the government story of 9/11 that just don't add up. The more I read and investigate this ,the more concerned I become.

The question of "who is behind all this and what did they have to gain?" Though valid isn't as important as explaining to a simpleton like me some answers to a few of the questions a lot of us have.

When you insult someone and call them a truther, you insult the rest of us that are looking for answers and are forming our own opinions from the arguments of all sides.

Who ever coined the word truther should be castrated. lol All of us on ATS are searching for the truth or at least we should be!

reply to post by twitchy


Boy you sure do have a hard time understanding facts.


What is inside the WTC6? Debris and columns from the Twin Towers. Since when do explosives create such neat rectangular holes in the shape of the exterior paneling? What is that to the left of WTC6? Why, thats the rest of the exterior paneling from the tower resting on it. Where did all that exterior paneling go? take a look in the hole.
Even this conspiracy site agrees there wasnt any explosives inside and debunks your little "explosion cloud" picture too.
911research.wtc7.net...
Hmm several thousand tons of steel collapsing directly onto WTC6? Yeah, I think that just might make a nice hole.

Now since that is out of the way, can you please show me footage from any new source, amateur video, or helicopter view taken at any time just after the second impact, right up to the first collapse, which would clearly show the alleged explosions at WTC6. Any at all. Do you even understand the basics of explosives ad the characteristics of them? Oh and by the way, a blast crater causes debris to come out of the crater, not fall into the crater, hence being BLASTED out, not in.

Now dont put words into my mouth about no explosions during the WTC attacks. That is a strawman argument. Of course there were explosions. The planes impacting the WTCs, those were pretty big explosions. Fires burning over multiple floors for nearly an hour, yes explosions do happen during fires, you just had a freaking airplane plow into the building. However, going from "I heard explosions" and take that as meaning, "There were bombs" is a common fallacy brought forward by many so called "truthers". Its illogical. Hearing something go "boom" during a fire is nothing new. Lots of things can sound like explosions. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to know that. The building collapsing has been likened to an explosion. How else to describe what is happening? People have no clue whats going on, so they describe it as best as they could considering the scant details of the whole thing. But to claim that something going "boom" mean there were bombs, or implies bombs, is stupid and a fallacy.

Originally posted by GenRadek
Boy you sure do have a hard time understanding facts....What is inside the WTC6? Debris and columns...in the hole....might make a nice hole.

Exactly right, HOLE radek. It's a bloody hole, there's nothing in there that's why it's called a hole. I don't need to put words in your mouth, you debunked yourself.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by GenRadek
Boy you sure do have a hard time understanding facts....What is inside the WTC6? Debris and columns...in the hole....might make a nice hole.

Exactly right, HOLE radek. It's a bloody hole, there's nothing in there that's why it's called a hole. I don't need to put words in your mouth, you debunked yourself.

Is your reading comprehension stunted?
You do know that holes are not limited to a bomb going off? How do meteor craters form? From an object crashing into the ground from above. How did the holes form in WTC6? Debris from WTC towers crashing onto it. Simple. Amazing you cant figure that out.

reply to post by twitchy


The debris is down inside the hole. You can't see it well because of the shadowing and camera angle. The debris IMPACTING broke through the roof, then the roof+debris pancaked through the flooors below to the bottom.

Originally posted by twitchy

Originally posted by GenRadek
Boy you sure do have a hard time understanding facts....What is inside the WTC6? Debris and columns...in the hole....might make a nice hole.

Exactly right, HOLE radek. It's a bloody hole, there's nothing in there that's why it's called a hole. I don't need to put words in your mouth, you debunked yourself.

Now it seems you're just playing word games and caught up on words instead of focusing, as you should be, on the photographic evidence. He posted a photograph:



Do you see what is down in there? Gosh, it looks like WTC debris, doesn't it? Like pieces of the big tower?



[edit on 21-9-2009 by mike3]