We are born to believe in God

We are born to believe in God

www.timesonline.co.uk

The idea has emerged from studies of the way children’s brains develop and of the workings of the brain during religious experiences. They suggest that during evolution groups of humans with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, perhaps because they tended to work together better and so stood a greater chance of survival.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I agree with the article. Human's believe in God is more complex than it seems. It's not just about poor education or indoctrination. I even believe that cavemen have some form spiritual belief.

And I disagree with the 'I figure it all out' mentality which crusading atheists and skeptics usually have. It's usually just oversimplification of things and that's not helpful at all.

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

The more i think about it. The more I think i'm already in heaven.

life is so beautiful.

This only proves that people of like mind and beliefs banded together for their safety/advancement.

I do agree with that article however that perhaps a belief in higher powers would have lead to better living conditions while these people were all living together.

However once another tribe with different beliefs came into the mix, I assume that violence and hatred soon followed.

An unfortunate but very real bi-product of religion at early stages of human development.

~Keeper

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Wouldn't belief in gods serve as well? It doesn't have to be "god".

Just sayin'

"There are no athiests in foxholes" is an old miliary saying. When things get desperate enough, praying helps....whether or not you "intellectually" believe in God. And what helps survival tends to perpetuate itself.

Even if you don't believe religion is literally "true," it should be possible to see its "usefulness" from a raw survival perspective. It also carries other benefits: dignity, hope, a sense of community, a sense that however poor or down on your luck you may be, you can be considered valuable in other ways. Thus, belief is not a matter of being "dumb instead of smart." It is, from this perspective, a psychological coping mechanism that has nothing to do with intelligence or lack thereof.

Several years ago I read a theory by a cognative scientist to the effect that religion is hardwired into the brain along with a phenomoneon called "excess agency." According to the theory, the mind automatically singles out objects with "agency," meaning purpose, sentience, and their own will, so to speak. For example, a leaf skittering in the wind has no "agency:" it is not moving according to its own will, but being propelled by the wind. A tiger stalking prey, on the other hand, has "agency:" His movements come from his own intentions.

According to the theory, the human mind has a bias towards seeing "excess agency." That is, we see purposiveness and agency where, in fact, there is none. Although this can be technically incorrect, it can also save lives. Who survives -- the man who jumps out of the way of a skittering leaf becasue he incorrectly thinks its "coming to get him," or the man who sits lazily in front of a hungry tiger because he thinks its movement is caused by the wind? The first man survives, obviously...even if his assessement of the situation is wrong.

The mental byproduct of excess agency, then, is a world that seems to be jumping with life, where every event seems to have significance and movement seems conscious even when its not. Too much of this sort of thinking can drive you mad. The religious impulse, then, may be one way man has worked out a counterbalance to the useful but excessive sense of agency. It provides a mental framework for dealing with a universe seemingly alive with purpose and agency at every turn. Don't know whether I buy the theory completely, but its a compelling one.

[edit on 9/6/09 by silent thunder]

After awhile with a lot of spiritual experience, it comes in mind with us all that we are gods.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy


I agree with the article. Human's believe in God is more complex than it seems. It's not just about poor education or indoctrination. I even believe that cavemen have some form spiritual belief.

And I disagree with the 'I figure it all out' mentality which crusading atheists and skeptics usually have. It's usually just oversimplification of things and that's not helpful at all.

www.timesonline.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

I don't understand your interpretation of athiests.... are you saying that believers in god don't work things out??!! What is useful about not working things out?

Nobody is going to figure out everything, it's just unfeasible to expect that. It's logical to state that god probably does not exist, because of the lack of evidence. Although nobody can say whether god definitely does not exist, not even scientists, and good scientists cannot say that with absolute certainty. The same with religious believers - they cannot say with absolute certainty that god exists!

Believing is probably an evolutionary response that led us to be content with a lack of this knowledge in order for us to keep order within civilisations. We don't need to continue that path, as we can now accept our limitations and insignificance. In an age of enlightenment, indoctrination has more damaging effects than these previously positive effects. This can be observed by uneducational beliefs, conflicts etc.

Spirituality lies with gaining knowledge, and that lies with proving concepts scientifically. Spiritual beliefs are a fake form of spirituality.

If anything, religious people are on crusades to convince others of their beliefs.

[edit on 6-9-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by hautmess
The more i think about it. The more I think i'm already in heaven.

life is so beautiful.

Life is certainly beautiful.... regardless of where the universe originated from.

Life can also be crap, but that's life for you!

Originally posted by KennyRJR
After awhile with a lot of spiritual experience, it comes in mind with us all that we are gods.

So is a "god" not a god - in the sense that religions state?

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


An unfortunate but very real bi-product of religion at early stages of human development.

~Keeper

Seems it is even worse a bi-product of societys where Religion was NOT and that is why they didn't survive as well. They were genocided in the millions by atheistic leaders of Godless states.

Richard Dawkins counter argument is that no one was ever killed by in the name of athesim. I would just like to ask Mr, Dawkins why he thinks they would need to do it in the name of atheism if their is no religion, would their be any atheist's?

[edit on 6-9-2009 by Stylez]

Originally posted by Stylez

Originally posted by tothetenthpower


An unfortunate but very real bi-product of religion at early stages of human development.

~Keeper

Seems it is even worse a bi-product of societys where Religion was NOT and that is why they didn't survive as well. They were genocided in the millions by atheistic leaders of Godless states.

Richard Dawkins counter argument is that no one was ever killed by in the name of athesim. I would just like to ask Mr, Dawkins why he thinks they would need to do it in the name of atheism if their is no religion, would their be any atheist's?

[edit on 6-9-2009 by Stylez]

People do not tend to kill because of athiesm, they may be athiests, just as they may be religious.

But religious people kill in the name of religion, because of their own religion, or their victims religion.

Without existence of religion, athiests would just be called something else, but their use of logic and evidence based thinking would still apply. So the question should be - would anybody kill in the name of logic? Not unless they are insane or not of sound mind, and so cannot determine reality from irreality, which would seem to associate those killers more with religious associations, rather than the critical thinking folks.


[edit on 6-9-2009 by john124]

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

We are born to believe in God

www.timesonline.co.uk

... groups of humans with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, perhaps because they tended to work together better and so stood a greater chance of survival.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Ok, let me see if I follow the logic. The early religous folk believed that the lord spared them that day and passed their genes on. I guess that settles the existence of god, wait, a quote from Nietzsche came to mind:

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

Besides, if beleiving in god is so advantageous where did all the non-believers' genes come from? They should have died out with the within a few generations according to this.
(Not that the believers didn't try to accomplish the extermination of the infidels again and again. Inquisition, anyone?)

Did it occur to anyone that maybe investigating how things work and making better tools, maybe this stands more chance of survival than throwing hands in the air and speaking gibberish?


[edit on 6-9-2009 by tungus]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
This only proves that people of like mind and beliefs banded together for their safety/advancement.

I do agree with that article however that perhaps a belief in higher powers would have lead to better living conditions while these people were all living together.

However once another tribe with different beliefs came into the mix, I assume that violence and hatred soon followed.

An unfortunate but very real bi-product of religion at early stages of human development.

~Keeper

OR...the violence and hatred caused by "religion" is due more to technology (weapons) and unnecessary stress (kingdoms versus tribes), the accumulation of wealth, and the overstepping of man's means, therefore religion, politics, etc were used as a tool to justify bad behavior rather than a true cause of discord.

reply to post by tungus


Here we go...

*eyeroll*

Because atheists never did anything wrong *cough cough Stalin cough cough*

It seems to be that the underlying commonality in violence and evil is not "religion" as the Stalins and Pol Pot's of the world have shown us, but man.

Men kill each other. Religions don't.

Originally posted by A Fortiori
reply to post by tungus

 

Here we go...

*eyeroll*

Because atheists never did anything wrong *cough cough Stalin cough cough*

It seems to be that the underlying commonality in violence and evil is not "religion" as the Stalins and Pol Pot's of the world have shown us, but man.

Men kill each other. Religions don't.

True to some extent, as it's mans flaws that lead to violence. But religion gives a convenient excuse for this. This could easily be some other differences between tribes or cultures, but religion is the easy pick to distinguish between them.

If young people were given a choice at a certain age, rather than indoctrination, then they don't have the burden of following a path not of their choosing that can led to death and destruction.

Did Stalin kill in the name of athiesm, or was he just an athiest that was a brutal madman?

People do kill others because of their religions, that is a fact.


[edit on 6-9-2009 by john124]

reply to post by A Fortiori


Actually, not to be mean about it or anything.

But as far as I can tell, the Crusades and those types of adventures were done because:

"You pray to a different God, Pray To Mine Or Die"

And other various reasons of course, but that would be the main one. Let's ask all the native americans if religion was not the cause of their children being taken from their homes and taught different langues and a different religion.

I am not saying that religion is inherintly evil, I think alot of good can come from religion so long as people understand that it is a personal thing and not to be projected unwillingly unto others.
~Keeper

reply to post by Stylez

I would just like to ask Mr, Dawkins why he thinks they would need to do it in the name of atheism if their is no religion, would their be any atheist's?

That does not make any sense. There ARE religions.

Do you believe in Allah, the god of Islam? If not, then you are an atheist of their god.

If there are NO religions, then perhaps we wouldn't have atheism.

reply to post by A Fortiori

Because atheists never did anything wrong *cough cough Stalin cough cough*

It seems to be that the underlying commonality in violence and evil is not "religion" as the Stalins and Pol Pot's of the world have shown us, but man.

Are you saying that Christianity and Islam are innocent of bloodshed?

Dictators have or had many beliefs. They may have used their beliefs or the lack thereof to influence people.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy

We are born to believe in God

www.timesonline.co.uk

The idea has emerged from studies of the way children’s brains develop and of the workings of the brain during religious experiences. They suggest that during evolution groups of humans with religious tendencies began to benefit from their beliefs, perhaps because they tended to work together better and so stood a greater chance of survival.

(visit the link for the full news article)

It is astounding how we SURVIVE this far. We have so many opposing religions in the world, it is a wonder how we have survived at all.