Sunset and Sunrise Crepuscular Rays on the MOON

i dont why you guys are arguing over this.

if they had papers out in 1964 about dust floating around the moon, and the astronauts saw it, then what's the problem?

i always thought that thinking the moon was a completely static, non-changing (except for meteor impact), was silly. solar winds alone create motion, and strip off sections.

i agree though, that if you ask anyone off the street what they thought about this, that they would think it's static.

how often do you ever ask anyone off the street anything (unless its cash cab). they have pretty much no clue unless it directly affects them.

i think you should stop arguing (or whatever you call it). its childish

Very interesting stuff. I never even knew there were pictures of the sun from the moon until I saw this one.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fe1b80ea836e.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by mahtoosacks
i think you should stop arguing (or whatever you call it). its childish

Well some of us call it 'discussion' Considering that is the function of this forum...

But your absolutely right... there is no point to this because its obvious EVERYONE knows about this stuff because the resident experts have been showing us this stuff since 1964...

Don't quite recall where there threads are on this but I am sure they are here somewhere...

Yup total waste of my time.... I should be out pulling weeds or something

I can see yawl would rather have threads like the really hot "Anunnaki Moon Base" or here the glorious tales spun by that Ashtar Command guy

I'll go look for some Alien stuff to make Phage happy

[edit on 4-9-2009 by zorgon]

Dr. Norman Bergrun's Discoveries of Life on the Moon

Monday, July 23, 2001 Contact: Marilyn "Kacey" Daukas
For Immediate Release Phone/Fax: 925 691-1166

NASA IMAGES REVEAL LIFE ON THE MOON
LUNAR LIFE FORMS: REVELATIONS OF APOLLO 14

Generally assumed is that life forms, if they exist elsewhere other than Earth, will be microscopic in character. Dr. Norman Bergrun's discoveries of life on the moon, presented in "Lunar Life Forms: Revelations of Apollo 14", demonstrate that this present assumption is erroneous.

Some life forms are small, reminiscent in appearance to those found on Earth's ocean floors but without the ocean, while others appear as large "growths!" Just as some life forms are capable of creating light, such as the firefly, this has also been found to take place with some of the life forms that exist on our moon. It is evident also as on Earth, that some lunar life forms use camouflage to adapt to their surroundings providing the ability to "hide in plain sight!".

These NASA images along with the data contained in Dr. Bergun's latest work,"Lunar Life Forms: Revelations of Apollo 14", can be viewed in a professional presentation exclusively at Anomalog.com owned by Mr. Gordon Tibbles, who has been most helpful in making this presentation to you possible.

communities.anomalies.net...


Dr. Norman Bergrun Biography

Dr. Norman Bergrun is an alumnus of Ames Research Laboratory, NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) predecessor of Ames Research Center, NASA where he worked twelve years as a research scientist. At Ames, he pioneered the setting of design criteria for airplane thermal ice-prevention and the developing of roll stability laws for airplanes, missiles and rockets.

He joined Lockheed Missiles and Space Company (now Lockheed Martin) where he was manager of the planning and analysis of flight tests for the Navy Polaris Underwater Launch Missile System. During his thirteen years at Lockheed, he also served as a senior scientist having responsible analysis cognizance of special space-satellite applications. After a short tour of duty with Nielsen Engineering and Research, in 1971 he founded Bergrun Engineering and Research, parent of Bergrun Research founded in 1999 especially for world wide web activities.

An Associate Fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronauics (AIAA), he is active as a leader in Congressional Visits Day events on Capitol Hill. As Deputy Director-at-Large for the AIAA western region, he overlooks section activities in seven western states. Other memberships include The Planetary Society, The Association for the Advancement of Science, The Aviation Hall of Fame, the National Society of Professional Engineers, the Federation of American Scientists and the Scientific Faculty, International Biographical Centre, Cambridge, England.

Bergrun holds a BSME degree from Cornell University, an LLB from LaSalle University Extension, a DSc (Hon) from World University and a California Professional Engineer (PE) License. He also has engaged in graduate aerospace studies at Stanford University. He is a founder of the California Society of Professional Engineers Education Foundation, is author of two books Tomorrow's Technology Today and Ringmakers of Saturn and has published over 100 papers. Two recent manuscripts, Lunar Life Forms: Revelations of Apollo 14 and Mars Puts on a Good Face: The Masquerade, have been registered with the Library of Congress, Washington, D. C. He has lectured in the United States, Canada, England and Europe.

Credited with numerous awards and citations including the California Society of Professional Engineers Archimedes Engineering Achievement Award, and Special Service Citations for contributions to the AIAA National Public Policy and to the Regional Sections Activity Committees, he is listed in Marquis "Who's Who in the World", "Who's Who in America", "Who's Who in Science and Engineering", and other reference works.

Continuing interests include photography*, NASA student activities and music, having played as a concert musician at Carnegie Hall with the Cornell University Band and having been a founder of "Aurora Singers", a 64-voice choir.

SOURCE: Ringmakers of Saturn
www.ringmakersofsaturn.com...


There ya go... Alien life forms on the moon

Now the thread police can rest easy

reply to post by zorgon

I should be out pulling weeds or something...

Hey!! OW!!

I prefer the electric doohickey...or good ole' herbicide in a spray bottle.

Nice info, lots to read through. ONE thing I thought of, though, re: your question about "why" no photos.

Could it simply have been that the phenom was so dim it was better "seen" by Human eyes? I mean, like sometimes it's hard to capture the Boreallis on film, unless you have specific films, ASA speeds, lenses, etc....

Just thinkin' out loud, here.......

PLUS, obviously, as JimO said, none of the Astronauts were on the surface during any Lunar sunrises or sunsets, due to the length of the Lunar 'day'. SO, anything they observed at the terminator would have to have been seen from orbit, yes?

reply to post by zorgon


Ok. There's the aliens.

This Bergrun guy sounds a lot like one of our favorite ATS posters. The one with the unpronounceable name and the "enhanced" Mars photos of creatures everywhere.

reply to post by zorgon

I can see yawl would rather have threads like the really hot "Anunnaki Moon Base" or here the glorious tales spun by that Ashtar Command guy...

Funny you should mention those...hate to veer OT, but those kinds of threads, and the fact that flags go flyin' all over 'em, makes me vomit a little in my mouth each time...

Your threads, on the other hand? No vomit, I'm happy to report!!!

So, a waving piece of cloth and five points for you!

reply to post by MOTT the HOOPLE


ahhh he claimed it was a breathable atmosphere.

Mr Hoople... Please !!!

Originally posted by Wimbly
Very interesting stuff. I never even knew there were pictures of the sun from the moon until I saw this one.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fe1b80ea836e.jpg[/atsimg]

Yowsers, who took that - theyd be in a lot of direct radiation?!

That's one thing I am sure I think I know maybe... its not pleasant, the sunlight, outside of Earths Atmos..

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by mahtoosacks
i think you should stop arguing (or whatever you call it). its childish

Well some of us call it 'discussion' Considering that is the function of this forum...

Nonsense - this place is for groupies - you know it Zman!!

But your absolutely right... there is no point to this because its obvious EVERYONE knows about this stuff because the resident experts have been showing us this stuff since 1964...

Don't quite recall where there threads are on this but I am sure they are here somewhere...

Well, the facts are there. The common knowledge may not be. People who sit in the lounge and watch the telly, don't really know where to look, but they hear a brief description, and it's gospel. I remember in primary school, being tol there is no atmosphere on the moon. But at the same time, the teacher had no idea why the sand and dust didnt just fly off...

What you cant test, you take for granted.

Yup total waste of my time.... I should be out pulling weeds or something

I can see yawl would rather have threads like the really hot "Anunnaki Moon Base"

I swear you leave those kitty's alone... oO

or here the glorious tales spun by that Ashtar Command guy

*puts on tinfoil hat* - Whats wrong with him? He makes perfect sense. Are you being sarcarrsstic Zman?!

I'll go look for some Alien stuff to make Phage happy

[edit on 4-9-2009 by zorgon]

Baloons... ALL Baloons.. as I say that my PC starts buzzing... uhh..

i like instead you just turn your sarcasm straight to me.


o well.

i did like the pictures though!

maybe you just feel like badgering someone today, i dunno. you did start a whole new thread to disprove one guy....

never heard of the dust storm before. that was pretty cool.

and no i dont prefer annunaki base threads. just thought it would be a better use of time to not be such a pissing match over who knows more.

reply to post by zorgon


I had no idea about anything you posted on your OP. So thank you. I now know this!

S&F

reply to post by Wimbly


Here is another sun shot from the moon, classic picture with rover tracks (driver was all over the place) lol!
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2c3b725e48c4.jpg[/atsimg]
pic source= NASA photo #71-HC-277
.
-Interesting thread Z!
I have always thought the haze/dust on and around the moon was a static reaction of the dust on surface or magnetic dust!.... Did there used to be a atmosphere on the moon long ago??



[edit on 4-9-2009 by kyleplatinum]

Originally posted by mahtoosacks just thought it would be a better use of time to not be such a pissing match over who knows more.

But see... that is how it works here... you do a serious thread like Martian Fossils that cannot be debunked... and there are no 'arguments' so a few people pop in and say "Wow...cool thread" and then shortly it falls off the table..

But guys like Phage, ArMap are worthy opponents and eventually get there own 'groupies' that demand they keep up their end Jim, well he is in a different category... being ex NASA and all... seems he doesn't have 'groupies' yet

Without the back and forth... things would get boring around here real quick.

But ask yourself this...

The 'Moon Storms" are unknown to most people here, though a few 'experts' claim that its been known since 1964...

So how come none of these 'experts' ever create a thread and say "Hey looky this cool information!" Seems they would rather debunk and tease then provide useful info

NASA also talked about electromagnetic shielding in 1964... I even posted a paper from the contractor final report (its somewhere in Skunkworks) So I guess it must be common knowledge by now that NASA spacecraft have radiation shields so the Van Allen belts are no concern

I guess that is where Roddenberry got his idea from



EISCAT Research

Now then... lemme see if I have some more cool moon base photos

Well at least I can take consolation in the fact that NASA cares

As someone just whacked me over the head with a reminder...


Yawl may consider it 'old news' this atmosphere and dust and all....

But if that is so, and they know everything...

Then why are they spending millions to send a robot up there to study the ATMOSPHERE and DUST


LADEE

Launch date Maya 01 2012 gotta love NASA's sense of humor

Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer

Lunar Atmosphere and Dust Environment Explorer (LADEE) is a NASA mission that will orbit the Moon and its main objective is to characterize the atmosphere and lunar dust environment.

nasascience.nasa.gov...

WHY spend millions to study a non atmosphere?

reply to post by zorgon


you're still cool in my book!

i never meant to make it look like it what you were doing wasnt worthwhile.

the thread started out kickA. just didnt want it to lose focus

In addition to the science objectives, the mission will be testing a new spacecraft architecture called the ‘Modular Common Bus’ -- which is being developed by NASA as a flexible, low cost, rapid turn around spacecraft for both orbiting and landing on the Moon and other deep space targets. It is hoped that such a capability will enable the Agency to perform future science goals for reduced cost.

nasascience.nasa.gov...

i love it when they try to achieve multiple goals at once. makes so much more sense

Seems they are not so sure about the 'electrostatic dust'

Lunar Dust.

Significant temporal and spatial variations of the lunar surface potential are known to occur due to charging from photo-emission and plasma currents,
and range from ~+10V to 4 kV [8-10]. These variations in surface potentials may cause the electrostatic transport of dust, as suggested for other airless bodies [11]. Dust levitation almost certainly occurs within a few meters of the lunar surface, creating “lunar
horizon glow” (LHG), as captured by Surveyor lander cameras [12] (Fig. 2).

Observations from the Apollo command module imply the presence of a high-altitude component of lunar dust extending up to 100 km [12, 13]. Visible to the naked eye, these dust concentrations are too high to be explained by impact related processes alone, leading to the concept of dust fountains [14], in which large surface potentials expected near the terminator regions ballistically loft smaller dust grains to high altitudes.

Whether LHG results from dust or perhaps emission from the sodium exosphere remains an open question that LADEE will help resolve. If LHG is composed of dust, LADEE will determine the spatial and size distribution of the grains. Temporal and spatial correlations of dust activity with the terminator, geotail crossings, and solar events may yield details about specific mechanisms of dust lofting.

www.lpi.usra.edu...


The Lunar Sodium Atmosphere: A Study as Observed Through Four Lunar Eclipses

A.L. Morrill, M Mendillo, J Baumgardner (Boston University)

The Moon's sodium atmosphere has been imaged during four lunar eclipses: November 29, 1993, April 2, 1996, September 27, 1996, and March 24, 1997, using a coronagraph type system at the Boston University four inch telescope located at the McDonald Observatory, TX, and at La Palma, Canary Islands. The Moon is imaged with a 5893A filter with a FWHP of 16A to include the sodium D1 and D2 lines. The eclipse condition provides the opportunity to observe the faint lunar atmosphere when the bright disk of the Moon is within the umbra and penumbra greatly reducing the scattered light in the system.

In all four cases, the sodium atmosphere was imaged out to radial distances of 10 lunar radii. The brightness patterns were essentially uniform in azimuth and exhibited a radial decay far more gradual than seen at sub-solar radial distances at quarter Moon. While some variability appears among the four data sets, the large scale morphology under eclipse conditions was remarkably constant during the 1993 to 1997 events. This implies a steady source of sodium at times of full Moon.

www.lpi.usra.edu...

Moon's Extended Sodium Atmosphere



sirius.bu.edu...

Lunar Observations with the Boston University Imaging System

"With the same 0.1-meter telescope used for the Jupiter observations, we image the faint sodium exosphere of the moon...."

sirius.bu.edu...


Meh I know, I know OLD NEWS

reply to post by zorgon


"yeah, but...yeah, but"

What is a 'Rayleigh'??

The pretty picture showing the concentrations of Na out to ten Lunar diameters Ooops, edit here...should be radii...did it explain how MUCH sodium each color represents??

Source of the sodium?

I mean..."atmosphere" is pretty relative, dontcha think? How many molecules per cubic meter does it take to be considered an atmosphere? By scientific definition, NOT be what we generally consider substantial enough to be measured with a barometer, or some such device.

Sorry if I missed the answer in the links....faster to just ask, and then it's posted for ALL to see.

Guess you can see why I raised the issue?

[edit on 4 September 2009 by weedwhacker]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Source of the sodium?

Now see THAT is a good question... just where does all this sodium come from? Will that give us that 'saffron' sky that NASA is blacking out? And is it good to breathe?

Those are the important issues

I mean sodium lasers give us that nice saffron color...





"Saffron Skies of Luna" catchy title eh?




[edit on 4-9-2009 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


Excellent work Zorgon!

But everyone already knew this stuff - it is actually now common knowledge! Just ignore the last few times you talked about it, only to have it denied - Those were flukes and Oberg wasn't around back then. (And Oberg has pictures that he will post just to show how common it was and how they all knew about the phenomenon and took pictures to document it - and he'll post those pictures. You'll see.)

As to your last post, I'll add this picture:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f74bbb7e601b.png[/atsimg]




[edit on 4-9-2009 by Exuberant1]