Are we being falsely lead torwards Civil War?

Some have claimed that the recent rise in political activism is a sign that we're headed for an 2nd American revolution. But, from what I can see, I'm afraid we are not headed down a path of "Revolution", but rather, we are being pushed down the path towards "Civil War". We are fighting almost exclusively amongst ourselves, and not against TPTB.

I agree with the notion that Americans have finally awoken from their long political slumber and are fuming mad about what is going on, and that awakening pleases me. But I disagree as to who it was that poked the "sleeping giant' with a stick.

What I'm afraid many of my fellow conservatives and Republicans fail to realize, is that we are often being riled up and stirred to action by illegitimate means, and are raging against things that when viewed objectively would be in our own interests. I submit that we have been made the tools of the corporate hegemony for their gain and not our own.

However, it's essential to note that here are many things to be worried about with the proposed Heath Care Reform, and many liberal policies which will only serve to place the financial burden of this nation more squarely on the backs of the middle class. The small to medium business owners and middle to upper-middle class back-bone of this country is being systematically broken by unsustainable economic policies.

But, the current debate is mostly subterfuge propagated by our own elected officials and corporate stooges. I cannot and will not support the Democratic agenda, but I have a memory, and an attention span longer than a week, which means I distinctly remember that it was the administration that I voted/campaigned for in 2000 that led us to where we are now.

The leadership of the Republican party is desperate, and is essentially throwing a "Hail Mary" to try and stir up dissent. But, when we realize that "Death Panels," and "Obama is a Socialist," and "Tea Parties," and "Birthers," were all products of Far Right activist who care not for the means by which their ends are accomplished, shills for the corporate lobby, men and women who care as little for the middle class as they do the poor,.... when we realize this....then the giant will truly be awakened and maybe we can throw them ALL, Democrat and Republican, out office, and run the lobbyist out of town as well.

Otherwise, we will continue to fight amongst ourselves while the powers that be dance with delight at our ignorance. The revolution is only possible if we put aside the notion of Left v Right, and take up the mantle of Truth v. Lies.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

The US govenment is not the enemy.
They can barely tie their shoes... it would be more work for them to quell a civil war so I would think they wouldn't move to start one.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by JJay55]

reply to post by JJay55
I don't believe I have ever asserted that the US Government is "the enemy," so I'm not sure what that has to do with anything here. As far as their ability to "barely tie their shoes," I disagree wholeheartedly. As a veteran, I can tell you the Government may be bulky and awkward at times, inefficient certainly, but by no means incapable of action. Remember, it's not the "Government" per se that is pulling the people's strings, but the real seat of power. Those that control the money and the media. That's where the problem lies.


[edit on 14-8-2009 by Artephius Abraxas Helios]

Ok, just sayin that this thread comes across as an anti-US government civil war plot started by TPTB and Cheney kinda thing.

Civil War usually has 3 factors, population density, gender imbalance and resource depletion. And it starts naturally with those factors... so there not a need for TPTB or Dr. Evil.

I agree that MSM is only a tool and there are those that make power moves but I can't see the end result a civil war.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by JJay55]

Artephius Abraxas Helios - I can't begin to say how much I agree with you!

I'm not certain a Civil War is the goal (although it could be), but certainly distraction and deception are. If the people are so busy watching the bright lights and pretty colors, and so involved in the fight amongst ourselves, we will continue to think that the fight is what's important. When one is involved in a "fight", it sometimes becomes more important to be right or to win than to analyze what we're fighting about and whether it's even logical.

We should be looking for the truth, not worried about whether it makes one side or the other look good or bad...

reply to post by JJay55
Wow, never mentioned Cheney at all, but OK. That's an interesting theory.

Your three factors for civil war may be accurate. I've not seen that analysis, but I'm not claiming expertise on civil war. But I will say that there is a good chance all three of those factors are at play here, though I would change gender imbalance with either a education imbalance or economic imbalance, as both are present in our current society.

I'm not sure, what the goal of such a prodding towards action would be on the part of TPTB, but it appears the vitriol and anger that is being riled up on the part of some constituencies is aimed at more than simply stopping Health Insurance Reform.

I'm simply positing that the root sources of this outpouring of anger seem to be focused more on the division of people based on political allegiances than on any real dialogue between the citizen and our Government. This position leads me to believe that it is not only possible, but probable that even a small spark would set off violence. It is this fear of misdirected violence which would be the "natural" factor that would set the actual ball to rolling.

I'm not claiming this will happen, rather, we should be weary that it could.

I think the Democrats are being played by Obama and his cronies. In so doing, are stirring up as much trouble in the people as they can. I don't think what's going on is racial by any means. I would hope that we as a country have gotten past that, but listening to the liberal media the KKK has taken over the country.

Look at this thread about 3 principles that are in place right now 1)Green Economy 2)Social Justice and 3)Union/Labor groups. I think the current climate is being manufactured to further their agenda.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by JJay55
The US govenment is not the enemy.

Are you sure about that?

Last I checked, one of our very own presidents said the following;
"Government is not the solution to the problem. Government IS the problem."

Just saying, people need to see the forest for the trees...

reply to post by Kords21
I agree the Liberal side of the media is playing the race card way too often. However, it is foolish to dismiss out of hand that there are racial tensions which are being played by both sides to their advantage. This "playing" is exactly what leads me to believe the goal is for us to fight amongst ourselves. I will watch the videos on the thread you mention, but I have to warn you, I take Glenn Beck about as seriously as I do the daily kos.

They are two sides to the same coin and want to keep us bickering. Plus, with Beck, it's really all about playing to the fringe to keep ratings up.

If you haven't already read it, may I suggest the book "Media Monopoly." It really opened my eyes to how the information we are given is controlled by fewer and fewer people at the top. It was considered conspiracy theory when it was first written, but is now taught as fact in almost every Communcations/Journalism 101 class in colleges across the country.

Heres a old story that most probly havn't heard of.

It has all the makings of a great story. But outside of the US state of Maine and select counter-terrorism circles, you won't have heard about it. For this is a story with all the right ingredients but one wrong ingredient.

On the right side is a leaked FBI intelligence report, Obama's inauguration, a multi-million dollar trust fund, a woman, uranium, thorium, the first attempt to build a "dirty bomb" on US soil, and, of course, murder.

On the wrong is the body of James G. Cummings, white supremacist millionaire, found in his Belfast home on December 9, 2008, shot to death.

After local police attended the scene, the FBI moved in and sealed off the building. Men in protective suits descended on the home but police refused to comment about what they found. Mrs. Cummings was taken into custody.

Then on January 12, 2009, Wikileaks revealed a confidential FBI field intelligence report on the incident as part of a Presidential inauguration threat analysis.[1]

According to the FBI report, Cummings had four lots of one gallon containers of bomb-grade hydrogen peroxide, uranium, thorium (also radioactive), lithium metal, thermite, aluminum powder, beryllium (radiation booster), boron, black iron oxide and magnesium ribbon.

While the radiation levels from Cummings initial device would have not have been physically significant compared to its explosive and toxic effects, had Cummings set off the device in Washington DC, during Obama's Presidential inauguration, its psychogenic effect may have hospitalized thousands.

The FBI states it also seized literature on how to build “dirty bombs” and information about cesium-137, strontium-90 and cobalt-60 and other radioactive materials.

There was also evidence linking Cummings to white supremacist groups, including Cummings' membership application to the US National Socialist (Nazi) party.

Local tradesmen who worked at the Cummings home told Maine reporters that Cummings was an ardent admirer of Adolf Hitler and had a collection of Nazi memorabilia around the house, including a prominently displayed flag with a swastika. Cummings claimed to have pieces of Hitler’s personal silverware and place settings.[2]

Though the Associated Press independently confirmed the Wikileaks FBI report, no-one outside of the Maine press (and Wikileaks) wanted to tell their readers about the first credible "dirty bomb" plot on US soil.

wikileaks

reply to post by ADVISOR
i think you take the man's words too literally, and out of context. I remember distinctly when those words were spoken, and it was with regards to "Big Government Spending." It did not have anything to do with Government being the "enemy" of the people.

Government serves a valid function in Society and should not be demonized because you disagree with a policy. The military that protects our borders and freedoms is Gov't, the police and fire departments are Gov't, your local voting office that allows you to voice opinion in democratic elections is Gov't. Lest we forget that government is simply the rules and institutions we as a people empower for our health safety and well being. This Country was founded by people who believed a correctly formed and justly administered Government for and by the people would be the best form of society and best protection against tyranny the world had ever seen. I tend to agree with them, which is why I do not want my Government hi-jacked by special interest and corporate lobbies.

reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios


I'm not a big fan of Beck either, but the information he puts out in those videos are interesting. I wish I could find a different news source talking about it than fox/beck, but I don't think the other networks would touch this.

I'll agree that race does play a part in some of these protests. There are people who don't want Obama to succeed on anything just because he is black. It wouldn't surprise me if these people want Obama's dog to die so they can blame him for that. The liberal media is just going crazy with the playing of the race card. Not even fox played up the whole "Terrorists" angle as much as CNN/NBC/ABC is playing up "Protesters are all rascists".

Ultimately there are groups that will profit from all of this somehow and these politicians and gov't are just being used to furhter their goals and agenda. While the gov't isn't our friend and not the enemy that we should be focused on, the forces/people behind the gov't are the ones that are playing all sides.

Originally posted by Artephius Abraxas Helios
reply to post by ADVISOR

 

i think you take the man's words too literally, and out of context. I remember distinctly when those words were spoken, and it was with regards to "Big Government Spending." It did not have anything to do with Government being the "enemy" of the people.

One thing, leads to another.

Here is the context, and it is still applicable today as it was then, if not more so now.

Idle industries have cast workers into unemployment, human misery, and personal indignity. Those who do work are denied a fair return for their labor by a tax system which penalizes successful achievement and keeps us from maintaining full productivity.

But great as our tax burden is, it has not kept pace with public spending. For decades we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children's future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.

You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we're not bound by that same limitation? We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow. And let there be no misunderstanding: We are going to begin to act, beginning today.

The economic ills we suffer have come upon us over several decades. They will not go away in days, weeks, or months, but they will go away. They will go away because we as Americans have the capacity now, as we've had in the past, to do whatever needs to be done to preserve this last and greatest bastion of freedom.

In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. From time to time we've been tempted to believe that society has become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people. Well, if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else? All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one group singled out to pay a higher price.
Inaugural Address

I didn't take it out of context, I just see where he was pointing us, and where we are today is not there.

[edit on 14-8-2009 by ADVISOR]

reply to post by Kords21
I'm watching the videos now. I think he over sensationalizes the communist angle, and tries to demonize community organization. ACORN has become a filthy word these days, and rightfully so in my opinion. But, again, doesn't that sensationalism cloud the sliver of truth which should be the point.... that these organizations are all connected and they have an agenda. That's the scary part.... not that they have a left or right agenda. My goal is to keep as many of us as possible focused on the people behind the organizations, so that we do not miss the hidden agenda.

reply to post by ADVISOR


The president is not the US government.
I just can't believe the MSM has that much power. Most people see right through the media. O'Reilly isn't even entertaining anymore. I don't believe there is a puppet master sitting back and using the MSM to rile up the American public. That's just too Hollywood. Sure Limbaugh has his fans and type A behavior is quite common in the US but the MSM isn't responsible for personal behavior.

Instead, the factors of civil disobedience can all be traced to population density, gender imbalance, and resource depletion.
So I suggest that resource depletion (economy) is causing problems in the US. Just the idea of foreclosure, bank failure and gas prices will make a grown man cry.

I see things as boiling up rather than being brought to a boil. Which doesn't mean there are not those who will try for power. But like Madoff they will fail. Soros is making a play now. He just dropped a few million in NYC.

Originally posted by JJay55
The US govenment is not the enemy.

Thanks for the laugh, but seriously..of course the government is the enemy..Where have you been for the past 70 years?

I agree, the powers that be would really love it if the American People just rose up and took guns and started shooting at Federal Officers....this is what they actually think we will do, if pushed hard enough. Beck, Jones, and other radio personalities are pushing this agenda, we do not have to listen to them. I have said it many times, the correct way to American Revolution is through the courts, and the State(s) Legislators. Yes, it is true that we have enough guns to kill half the world, but we do not have to use them. America is the only Nation on Earth that used nuclear bombs to make a point, do they ever use them again? Just the threat of guns is enough, but the people must do things slowly, surely, and legally, and no mistakes. Failure to do this would result in disaster of a heinous proportion.

You know, I used to blame this all on the 90s. Political correctness was the tip of the iceberg when it comes to measuring how f'ed up the US has become. The whole media blowing out of proportion child discipline and making it so parents didn't dare because of threats about abuse. People didn't talk about the parental abuse, which by standards then compared to todays, is rampant.

I'm disgusted, by the ignorance and "self ignorance". People who purposely deny the truth, and are actually proud to do dumb.

As if sticking your head in the sand is a refuge....every one knows it is not. Yet it is still done, like some sort of superstitious child hiding under the blankets.

In reality those blankets will not protect you, yet some how the comfort of the illusion remains.

Why?



Why do people insist on deliberately lieing to themselves, and making some personal crusade of, of trying to get others to do the same?

Every one can see where continous government control is leading. It is called a totalitarian society. That is NOT what the USofA was established for.

Too many people think they know what the history of the US is, when they havn't studied said history outside of their schooling. Because if more people picked up a book, or searched online. What happened in the letters written by our founding fathers, or the activities of the real Sons of Liberty, a different story than was mass taught is apparent.

Excuse me for rambling like this, but I just can't understand it.

We have two kinds of people, those who are not satisified being told what and how to do things. And those who are.

The ones who are, well, it's your own fault.

Are we being "falsely" led towards civil war? Only reason they would do such is to let the people hang themselves. By asking for more protection, and allowing more bills, ammendments and alterations to go unread and passed in the middle of the night.

They could falsely lead the people into a false civil war to enact complete martial law, saying a fith column movement has threatened our soverienty. But how likely is that?

All I really see is a bunch of people, ignorant and happy being told what do to and how. Getting all worked into a frenzy over things they probably have no clue about. Because they depend on some one else to think for them...

What is there to divide, the majority is happy hiding under their blankets...

It's you and I, the people reading this and within this community. Free thinking individuals, who know some thing is up and thus are here.

(I would like to think you all, are free thinking open minded individuals vs media controlled trolls)

Watching the decades of government "ammendments" and other legal changes, it isn't for our benefit if we are not the ones benefiting.

Look who has came out on top through out this economic storm. Trillions of US finances arebeing drained by the Military Industial Complex, we have no monitary standard unless one counts the "military".

What else can back our worthless dollars?

Civil war not likely, the majority are too complacent.

Who else does it leave then...

reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios


Yes, through artificial division created by TPTB, there is a real push to start a race war/civil war.

Here is a thread I started that is real similar to this one, and what I said: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Are TPTB going for a race war? Are TPTB attempting to start a race war? Yes they are. It is even evident on ATS through race baiting shills. This is an extension of their efforts to keep us divided. Currently we are divided in the following ways (let me know if I forget any) -Black and White. -Rich and Poor. -Republicans and Democrats. -Liberals and Conservatives. -Socioeconomic classes. -Hispanic and White. -Hispanic and Black. -Police and Civilians. -People and Government. -Pro and anti-war -Christians vs. atheists. -Muslims vs. Jews -abortion One of the strings they are pulling, not only to keep us fighting each other, but also to keep us from fighting them, is race. I will admit that I was once pretty racist as I was raised that way. As a white guy I'm not here to say I'm sorry for who I am, but I was in error. After being shocked by a few people that I thought I already knew what they were, I learned the error of my ways. You cannot classify people based on their race. I thought you could at one time, I was wrong. While you may have suspicions based upon a persons appearance you may find that you are very incorrect. That said, you better learn right now that there are two kinds of people. 1) People who want to be free, and want everyone else to be free with them. 2)Those bent on enslaving as many as they can.(whether they know it or not sheeple fall into this category and are an enemy of freedom) There is a grand distraction coming. They are laying the groundwork now, and for the past several years. The racebaiting is obvious, and now provable by Hal Turner's admission that he worked for the FBI. I don't know exactly how it will unfold or if they will let it go hot. I kinda think they might benefit more from a simmering pot, and not let it get out of control, it is hard to say. 1-Don't participate in it. 2-You better be ready for tsthtf and the entire martial law scenario before it happens if you expect to survive. 3-We have to ignore the MSM, and educate as many as possible as soon as possible or we run the risk of a NWO sponsored race war. TURN OFF THE TV!!!

Good thread OP, star, flag, and friend for you.

reply to post by Artephius Abraxas Helios


Revolution seems extreme. Civil war to me seems unlikely although the recent awakening of the public does demand some releif. I see very little increase in infighting or racial tension. Maybe the hardcore party believers. But they are fanatics. Or dreamers.

I think the stick you talk about, that is poking the public, has been around for a long time.
I think as you say, the youth full interest in the Obama's election, the inter net and the tyrannical behavior of the past administration. Along with Obama's lies to his supporters, has contributed to the AWAKENING.
Most of the strife and discontent comes from these factors.
I do believe that there are clandestine internal and international (stinky pewky) agencies at work attempting to destabilize our way of life during this adjustment to the world scene.
We may not be as devious as they are but we are not as dumb as they believe.
As we sort out this mess, as American do, I think we will come out a stronger force to be reckoned with.
just sayin