911, Iraq, PNAC , All roads lead to Israel..., page 1

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 08:27 AM

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What really happened on 911? Poll after poll the majority of Americans believe that the official story of 911 is false and that the government is part of a cover up. (Compare that to Fox News Viewers who staggeringly still blieve in the lies of Saddam being linked to 911 even after the president and vice president admitted that there was no conneciton.) There seem to be four main 911 theories, one from the main stream press and the 911 commission and others from researchers who bothered to look at things like physical evidence, the paper trail, and the money trail. I have a fifth theory which unifies the war in Iraq with the cabal that planned 911. The 4 theories briefly go as follows.

1. Is the official story.

We got caught with our pants down and terrorists did 911. And the wars in the Middle East are part of the greater war on terrorism.

2. The incompetence excuse.

There was information available about the coming attacks but because of our incompetence we failed to see it. Terrorists attacked the US. And the wars in the Middle East were based on mistakes (more incompetence) but now we got to stay.

Continue Reading - www.rys2sense.com...

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[edit on Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:34:12 -0500 by MemoryShock]

BornPatriot

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 09:44 AM

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dont elect me president, it will be more than roads leading to ISREAL... I'm still pissed for the 1967 crap... add to it the 911 crap ... and I have no mercy.

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 09:54 AM

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Maybe the truth is that Islam is planning and executing global domination. All this while Americans sleep and dream up conspiracies against their own government.
Ask muslims, see for yourself personally, connect the dots in a correct order. The Bush Administration and PNAC didn't create Islam. Islam has been around for a couple of thousand years and they alone are waging war against the West. fact.

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 09:55 AM

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PS. Coexist isn't possible when a certain theology make it illegal.
What happens to someone who converts to Christianity in Saudi Arabia? What is the law?

ipsedixit

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:07 AM

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I think there are some roads that lead to Washington although I agree that many roads lead to Israel and Washington both.

The stand down or military slow down couldn't have been arranged by Israel.

Cheney's personal guarantee that the Pentagon hit would take place "of course the order still stands" couldn't have been arranged by Israel.

The cover up in the aftermath couldn't have been arranged by Israel.

I'm wary of attempts to mitigate the responsibilities of the American executive branch in all of this. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of attempt to partially admit truth by off-loading blame somewhere (the old standby, "the devil made me do it"), by the key perps, who are, in my opinion, basically oil men, military contractors and a newbie to the group, Israeli right wingers.

Neo-V™

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:09 AM

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Originally posted by JJay55
Maybe the truth is that Islam is planning and executing global domination.

Maybe, or maybe not, although it would be much easier to believe that if the majority of U.S foriegn policy wern't dual-citizens.

Originally posted by JJay55
Islam has been around for a couple of thousand years and they alone are waging war against the West. fact.

Until a Muslim country has it's forces making it's way over here, I'm not sure it could be claimed they are waging war against the West.

Originally posted by JJay55
PS. Coexist isn't possible when a certain theology make it illegal.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to though, is there.

Neo-V™

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:12 AM

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Originally posted by ipsedixit
I'm wary of attempts to mitigate the responsibilities of the American executive branch in all of this.

5. The Neocons Made it happen with the assistance of a foreign government, the same government where PNAC's papers were first written, and the same foreign nation who we have caught spies from who have been stealing secrets from the US about Iran, and who made up the shadow government of the OSP which is who cherry picked and fabricated the lies told about Iraq in order to start that war.

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:17 AM

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Originally posted by Neo-V™

Originally posted by JJay55
PS. Coexist isn't possible when a certain theology make it illegal.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to though, is there.

Of course most Americans aren't going to believe it until they see it. Thankfully there are intelligence agents who are doing what they can to prevent Islamic action on American soil... daily.

Coexist dreaming is ok I suppose. But realize it is impossible because Islam does not permit anyone to be superior to it, Jews and Christians are considered on the wrong path and always inferior.
On the other hand, in Christianity there is no goal to convert all existing people on the planet, only the belief that at Judgement only believers will ascend. In Islam the goal is to convert all the living. This will happen by force and is currently happening all over Africa and Southeast Asia.

You can see a list:
www.thereligionofpeace.com

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:21 AM

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Originally posted by Neo-V™

5. The Neocons Made it happen with the assistance of a foreign government, the same government where PNAC's papers were first written, and the same foreign nation who we have caught spies from who have been stealing secrets from the US about Iran, and who made up the shadow government of the OSP which is who cherry picked and fabricated the lies told about Iraq in order to start that war.

In case you hadn't noticed... the US administration changed at the election. PNAC has basically broken apart and lost it's power, including when Wolfowitz was gulaged to the World Bank.
Sure Heritage and Cato are institutions in the clique but their power is dwarfed by the G8 who have other influences toward their decisions.

Dwelling in the past keeps you behind the times.

ipsedixit

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:24 AM

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I've posted on Islam in other threads but in a nutshell, anyone who reads the Koran will find that it is a very troubling document. I believe that it is the outcome of political trouble between Jews and Arabs that was happening at the time it was written (circa 622 AD) and that it clearly reflects that fact in concrete references in the text.

Someone once pointed out that bin Laden and other extremists are the ones who follow the Koran. Islamic moderates deviate from the Koran in adopting a live and let live attitude toward the infidels. (To me a triumph of humanity over medieval dogmatism.)

I don't believe in a God of the sort described in the Bible or the Koran. I think both of those texts, though they do contain some wisdom, are of limited value to people who truly want to be good in this world. The history of their followers speaks for them. Both texts have been used to justify outrageous atrocities.

I don't think people should worry overly about Islamic threats. Islamic people thmselves are the first line of defense against Islamic extremism. One on one, Islamic people I have met have been, for the most part, fine and reasonable. The Koran itelf is a different story.

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:25 AM

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Originally posted by ipsedixit
I think there are some roads that lead to Washington although I agree that many roads lead to Israel and Washington both.

The stand down or military slow down couldn't have been arranged by Israel.

Cheney's personal guarantee that the Pentagon hit would take place "of course the order still stands" couldn't have been arranged by Israel.

The cover up in the aftermath couldn't have been arranged by Israel.

I'm wary of attempts to mitigate the responsibilities of the American executive branch in all of this. I wouldn't be surprised to see some kind of attempt to partially admit truth by off-loading blame somewhere (the old standby, "the devil made me do it"), by the key perps, who are, in my opinion, basically oil men, military contractors and a newbie to the group, Israeli right wingers.

As far as Israel goes, she will be left to deal with a nuclear Iran all by herself. Further, India will have to confront Pakistan around the same time. The US is too busy in Afghanistan to come to the defense of non-NATO countries. However, the reprocussions will be great because Iran will release terrorism groups against the US including the plan to launch against a dozen cities at one time.

That's really a shame. Israel is the only little democracy surrounded by 57 OIC countries who have been trying to snuff them out for hundreds of years.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by JJay55]

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:34 AM

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Originally posted by ipsedixit
I don't think people should worry overly about Islamic threats. Islamic people thmselves are the first line of defense against Islamic extremism. One on one, Islamic people I have met have been, for the most part, fine and reasonable. The Koran itelf is a different story.

www.hinduonnet.com...
The problem is that there is no way to distinguish between moderate muslims and those who want to kill. It is the law to kill Christians and Jews. Law in 57 OIC countries states that and it is enforced by the governments and clerics.

Yes, your point that the Quran and governments and laws of Islam are not reasonable is right. Yes, people in general are good, but when they have no choice they will act according to law. Already in the US Sharia Law is being pushed to trump US law. We are only at the beginning of the movement. 2010-2013 will see changes.

ipsedixit

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:44 AM

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Originally posted by JJay55
As far as Israel goes, she will be left to deal with a nuclear Iran all by herself.

Israeli right wingers bear a heavy responsibility in all of this. They believed that nuclear weapons would guarantee the existence of Israel. They are wrong about that. What will guarantee the existence of Israel is the banning of the sale of condoms and birth control pills in the country and a 10:00 PM curfew for all adults of reproductive age.

However, the reprocussions will be great because Iran will release terrorism groups against the US including the plan to launch against a dozen cities at one time.

I flat out don't believe it.

That's really a shame. Israel is the only little democracy surrounded by 57 OIC countries who have been trying to snuff them out for hundreds of years.

Dude, please, hundreds of years. Israel is 60 years old! Yes, it might seem like hundreds of years depending on your point of view.

There is peace in the middle east, hiding in a closet somewhere. People have to humble down a little and compromise with each other.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

Neo-V™

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 10:46 AM

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Originally posted by JJay55
But realize it is impossible because Islam does not permit anyone to be superior to it

It's not about what religion dictates, it's about how us as individuals want to live. If your above statement was correct then how come it happens on a daily basis in the Western world?

Originally posted by JJay55
In case you hadn't noticed... the US administration changed at the election.

Unless that changes the past, it's irrelevant. Otherwise we wouldn't still be hearing about the torture under the last regime.

Originally posted by JJay55
Dwelling in the past keeps you behind the times.

"History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are."

- David C. McCullough

ipsedixit

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:00 AM

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Originally posted by JJay55
The problem is that there is no way to distinguish between moderate muslims and those who want to kill.

One can estimate numbers though. Islamic extremists are undoubtedly fewer than Islamic moderates. There are moderate Islamic governments who arrest extremist imams every day.

It is the law to kill Christians and Jews. Law in 57 OIC countries states that and it is enforced by the governments and clerics.

The Koran, like God's other great book, the Bible, is full of self contradictions. Maybe this was simply a problem with the eathly conduits used to transmit his word.

As people become more educated and less simple minded they begin to appreciate the subtleties and problems posed by religious books. In fact they start to take the religious books seriously and actually read them carefully and not like little school children being taught a lesson by rote.

Yes, your point that the Quran and governments and laws of Islam are not reasonable is right. Yes, people in general are good, but when they have no choice they will act according to law.

The answer to these problems is education and experience. I think Einstein said something to the effect that, we are in a race between education and destruction. Most people prefer survival, even if it means having to go to school and having to let go of ways designed for the world almost 2000 years ago.

Already in the US Sharia Law is being pushed to trump US law. We are only at the beginning of the movement. 2010-2013 will see changes.

I think this movement will eventually peter out. I can't see it gaining momentum.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:07 AM

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Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by JJay55
As far as Israel goes, she will be left to deal with a nuclear Iran all by herself.

Israeli right wingers bear a heavy responsibility in all of this. They believed that nuclear weapons would guarantee the existence of Israel. They are wrong about that. What will guarantee the existence of Israel is the banning of the sale of condoms and birth control pills in the country and a 10:00 PM curfew for all adults of reproductive age.

However, the reprocussions will be great because Iran will release terrorism groups against the US including the plan to launch against a dozen cities at one time.

I flat out don't believe it.

That's really a shame. Israel is the only little democracy surrounded by 57 OIC countries who have been trying to snuff them out for hundreds of years.

Dude, please, hundreds of years. Israel is 60 years old! Yes, it might seem like hundreds of years depending on your point of view.

There is peace in the middle east, hiding in a closet somewhere. People have to humble down a little and compromise with each other.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

I'm not a dude. Hebrews existed well before they could be called Israelis.
There is no peace in the Middle East because their laws aren't designed for peace. You might think they are like the West, but they are not.

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:09 AM

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Originally posted by Neo-V™

Originally posted by JJay55
But realize it is impossible because Islam does not permit anyone to be superior to it

It's not about what religion dictates, it's about how us as individuals want to live. If your above statement was correct then how come it happens on a daily basis in the Western world?

Originally posted by JJay55
In case you hadn't noticed... the US administration changed at the election.

Unless that changes the past, it's irrelevant. Otherwise we wouldn't still be hearing about the torture under the last regime.

Originally posted by JJay55
Dwelling in the past keeps you behind the times.

"History is a guide to navigation in perilous times. History is who we are and why we are the way we are."

- David C. McCullough

1. Wrong. Islamic laws are followed by muslims. There is no choice. They are not a democracy. OIC countries are run by religious law, Republics of Islam, Sharia law, unlike Western law and democracy.
Many Westerners can't comprehend that Islam is not like us. Nor do they want to be.

Neo-V™

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:10 AM

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I didn't start this thread to discuss religion.

Neo-V™

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:16 AM

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Originally posted by JJay55
1. Wrong. Islamic laws are followed by muslims.

Get to Leeds on Saturday night, and see all the devoute Muslims out getting drunk and pulling women, see how wrong I am. Or come to West Yorkshire, and I'll show you hundreds of Muslims getting along fine with a number of different nationalitys.

There is no choice.

There is always choice.

JJay55

posted on Aug, 5 2009 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by ipsedixit

Originally posted by JJay55
The problem is that there is no way to distinguish between moderate muslims and those who want to kill.

One can estimate numbers though. Islamic extremists are undoubtedly fewer than Islamic moderates. There are moderate Islamic governments who arrest extremist imams every day.

It is the law to kill Christians and Jews. Law in 57 OIC countries states that and it is enforced by the governments and clerics.

The Koran, like God's other great book, the Bible, is full of self contradictions. Maybe this was simply a problem with the eathly conduits used to transmit his word.

As people become more educated and less simple minded they begin to appreciate the subtleties and problems posed by religious books. In fact they start to take the religious books seriously and actually read them carefully and not like little school children being taught a lesson by rote.

Yes, your point that the Quran and governments and laws of Islam are not reasonable is right. Yes, people in general are good, but when they have no choice they will act according to law.

The answer to these problems is education and experience. I think Einstein said something to the effect that, we are in a race between education and destruction. Most people prefer survival, even if it means having to go to school and having to let go of ways designed for the world almost 2000 years ago.

Already in the US Sharia Law is being pushed to trump US law. We are only at the beginning of the movement. 2010-2013 will see changes.

I think this movement will eventually peter out. I can't see it gaining momentum.

[edit on 5-8-2009 by ipsedixit]

First you have to define moderate? Those that believe in the Palestinian statehood is about 90%. That includes the right of violence to achieve it. Is that moderate?
1% of 1.4 billion is even alot in numbers, I assure you the numbers are higher.

What? There are moderate Islamic governments? And they arrest radical imans and clerics? Show me where! Even the UK and US doesn't deport radical hate-speaking imams.

The problem with education of Muslims is that they don't think they need to be educated. They are fine with their knowledge and believe that the West is on the wrong path. They feel that we need to be educated about them.... which of course will be a rosy picture.

The movement to bring Sharia law worldwide is definately growing. There are industries in the US that are constantly hounded by employees who won't handle pork, liquor, or work on Islamic holy days. There are demands for gender specific prayer rooms. At Islamic events security does not allow free speech or distribution of Christian pamplets. This is not petering out. In fact, it is growing substantially. There is also the tradition of honor killing with is happening all over the US and Canada. This is where daughters are being killed for dating boys that are not muslims or acting too Western. Take a look around... this is happening now.

Good site for references is:
www.johadwatch.org
Spencer posts events as they happen.