Dr Steven Greer

I've been reading for a while now... and noticed that quite a few people seem on this forum have a dislike for Steven Greer and his Disclosure Project. I've heard him called everything from a slimey car salesman to a liar...

My question is... what is the basis for this dislike? Is there evidence that I am not aware of that Steven Greer has lied and faked most of what he talks about? If so what is the evidence?

I'm interested in knowing... because so far from what I can ascertain... the dislike comes from the fact that most think he is just trying to make some money out of the UFO field.... but what actual PROOF is there that he is a fraud?

Would be interested to hear of anything.... so I can make my mind up about him.

reply to post by Total Package


well for starters,

Greer claims he "vectored" in the Phoenix lights UFO

www.abovetopsecret.com...

need i say more ?

I have two comments:

1. Your thread seems like a duplicate of this one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where discussion of the same topics you are asking about is taking place.

2. If your thread is NOT a duplicate, then you need a more descriptive title. I think the title of your thread is inadequate. What about Steven Greer? The title should convey more information than just a person's name, I hope you agree.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

I haven't seen anything wrong with him, in fact i embrace what he says.

However if there is more proof besides the Arizona thing, then please let me know about it...Thanks

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Total Package

 

well for starters,

Greer claims he "vectored" in the Phoenix lights UFO

www.abovetopsecret.com...

need i say more ?

Ok.... do we have any proof that he didn't? Was he spotted out that night in a restauarant having dinner so could not possibly have been vectoring the UFO's in... or was he in another state or country? Where is the proof.

You can't crucify a bloke on that...just because it "sounds unbelievable" to you. If we crucified everyone that had a claim that was out of the ordinary... then nobody would ever come forward with information.

Is there anything else... proof which shows he is a fraud? So far the impression I am getting about this guy is that people don't like how he looks or the fact he asks for money for DVDs... or because he makes claims their belief system can't get their head around. No actual evidence yet though?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
I have two comments:

1. Your thread seems like a duplicate of this one:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where discussion of the same topics you are asking about is taking place.

2. If your thread is NOT a duplicate, then you need a more descriptive title. I think the title of your thread is inadequate. What about Steven Greer? The title should convey more information than just a person's name, I hope you agree.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

Well I'm not sure how much more I can put in the title... which is why I put it in the 1st post.

I don't think I am asking the same... in the other thread I seem to see alot of people calling Greer certain things and discrediting him.... yet I don't see anyone giving proof of why he is to be discredited.

That's what I was hoping to get in this thread... just the evidence that he is a fraud.

Originally posted by easynow
Greer claims he "vectored" in the Phoenix lights UFO

You forgot that he also levitates! and claims moths to be alien energy beings, remote views aliens, communes with ET elders.... Meh!

Wiki Says:

Greer also teaches the use of meditation techniques that allow attendees to "remote view" locations and times (past and present), and develop "cosmic consciousness" and supernatural abilities such as precognition. [7] Greer claims to have been able to provide evidence - photographic and filmed - to support the success of his program, although no such evidence has yet been presented.

Source

He also claims in his book "Extraterrestrial Contact" to have been briefed on UFO's by R. James Woolsey, the former director of the CIA, at a dinner party... to which Greer subsequently received a royal bollocking!

See the letter from Woolsley to Greer here:
Letter To Greer

The list goes on and on!

If the Op had read the many threads dedicated to Greer at ATS, then I'm puzzled as to why he/she is still searching for reasons as to peoples distaste for him. It's all there in the threads mate.

IRM

reply to post by Total Package

Ok.... do we have any proof that he didn't?

how about Greer proves he did


how about if Greer can "vector in" UFO's why not do it again and prove it to everyone ?

should be simple if he is telling the truth right ?

Here is a letter supposedly confirming that he fabricated a story in his book Extraterrestrial Contact.

He has also been quoted as saying he can summon (he calls it "vectoring") or predict UFOs, but whenever asked, has never been able or is unwilling to do so.

He told Art Bell (of Coast to Coast Radio) that SETI was receiving alien signals which were being "jammed" by another agency. These claims have been denied by many top level SETI personnel, who would obviously admit to ET contact, considering ET contact is the program's objective.

He's known as being "all talk, no evidence." He often claims sources that he refuses to name, as well as telling stories with absolutely no evidence to back them up.

STEVEN GREER Reportedly plagiarizes the UFO work of others and sells as his own, sells do-it-yourself ET contact kits - now you too can steer in extraterrestrial spacecraft with a flashlight and never record them just like Doc Greer does. Made claims of contacting extraterrestrials through meditation. Claimed that U.S. military forces attacked a Colorado ET base inside a mountain using nerve gas, no evidence to back claim. Had dinner with CIA Director and spun tale of having briefed CIA Director about ETs for hours. Hosted press conference with credible UFO witnesses on Capitol Hill - ruined it and his own credibility by selling the work of others with his name on it and using bogus witnesses. Allegeldy attempted to charge Washington State MUFON members $2500.00 each to demonstrate how he can vector in UFOs - Greer got to choose the location and the time...mmmmmm. SEE: Doc Greer Sells The Truth, Greer: UFOlogy's Own Worst Enemy, CSETI, Greer's claim of military attacking ET underground base with nerve gas, and a refutation of Greer's claims of having briefed the CIA on UFOs.

Source: UfoWatchdog - Hall of Shame

Also: Greer's legal problems with the UFO Coalition



Putting all of the above aside, he has done something that no other Ufologist has ever done with his Disclosure Project. He has rounded up an incredible amount of intelligable witnesses who saw things that they cannot explain. I may not believe the things THIS man says, but I sure as hell can't explain what all of the DP witnesses claimed they saw.





Cheers!

Strype

Originally posted by kingoftheworld
I haven't seen anything wrong with him, in fact i embrace what he says.

However if there is more proof besides the Arizona thing, then please let me know about it...Thanks

Trouble is , is that on a UFO forum such as this there are many like minded individuals who want to know the truth no matter its ramifications to their lives.
Some people express hope, some fear , while some others profeSs to have irrefutable proof and then try and charge to release it, Dr. Greer does the same, he claims to have proof but to see it you have to pay a premium rate . Most people on here or any other forum to do with UFO's feel that the truth shouldn't have to be paid for , and that it should be made free to all.
We ALL want to know and we ALL have the same ideas even though I agree sometimes with the 'good' Doctor I can't help but think that sometimes people who do that kind of thing are only scamming those that want to know and therefore should be ridiculed, like hoaxers who get charged for wasting peoples times or causing a ruckus.

If ANYONE had proof , they should release it to all, if I did then I would no matter what threats are issued , what insults are thrown, I'd put it out and let people make their own minds up.

[edit on 4/8/09 by DataWraith]

Thanks everyone I will have a read through

SETI and having signals jammed was true in a fictitious documentary. So as far as we know, no it has not been done before. Maybe he never watched it to the end when it said this hasn't happened yet.

At first everyone loved what he was doing, even the hard core skeptics started to soften a bit, then he seemed to have gone to the dark side for a lack of a better term.

Debates were talking about, did he lose his marbles, did the CIA scramble his brain or the last one I remember did his family get threatened if he didn't start making these outrageous claims to discredit himself.

I remember there was at least one poster here that went to his vectoring session, had to pay a hefty fee, and thought it was all just BS.

Now he sells everything under the sun when it comes to DVD's etc. So most skeptical people by nature softened a bit by him see him as a sell out, and the rest MIB got to him or he just plain lost his marbles.

Of course there's still a few believers in everything he says but there will always be believers in everything.

Originally posted by Total Package

Ok.... do we have any proof that he didn't? Was he spotted out that night in a restauarant having dinner so could not possibly have been vectoring the UFO's in... or was he in another state or country? Where is the proof.

Are you kidding? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Is it easier to believe he "vectored" enormous ships to Phoenix, or that he didn't? I certainly do NOT need evidence that he didn't.

You can't crucify a bloke on that...just because it "sounds unbelievable" to you. If we crucified everyone that had a claim that was out of the ordinary... then nobody would ever come forward with information.

Sure you can. If you claimed something as ridiculous as "vectoring" gigantic spaceships here on ATS, you'd be shot down immediately without evidence. Same goes for everybody. People are entitled to come forward with whatever information they want. Though, nobody is expected to believe it until it can be proven. And once again, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Is there anything else... proof which shows he is a fraud? So far the impression I am getting about this guy is that people don't like how he looks or the fact he asks for money for DVDs... or because he makes claims their belief system can't get their head around. No actual evidence yet though?

There is no way prove that he is a "fraud." I'm sure there is some truth to some of the things he says. However, there are plenty of cases where he has either been proven to be fabricating, or has absolutely no evidence to back his claims. For most, this is plenty enough to discredit anything he says due to the fact that he cannot be trusted.




Cheers,
Strype


Edit to add: Anybody who claims they can summon or "vector" UFOs are, for obvious reasons, not taken seriously. Afterall, possessing such power would make disclosure incredibly easy, don't you think? If you could "vector" a UFO over your own home, would you start posting ads? Telling people you're unwilling to show them? Or would you start taking pictures/videos and calling the masses over? Because that's what I would do, and I'm not even a Ufologist.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Strype]

Originally posted by Total Package
2. If your thread is NOT a duplicate, then you need a more descriptive title. I think the title of your thread is inadequate. What about Steven Greer? The title should convey more information than just a person's name, I hope you agree.

Well I'm not sure how much more I can put in the title... which is why I put it in the 1st post.

I don't think I am asking the same... in the other thread I seem to see alot of people calling Greer certain things and discrediting him.... yet I don't see anyone giving proof of why he is to be discredited.

That's what I was hoping to get in this thread... just the evidence that he is a fraud.

I don't want to choose your title for you, but how about something along the lines of

"Is Steven Greer a Fraud? Post evidence here."

Or choose whatever you think is appropriate, but your current title is insufficiently descriptive. You can edit the title right? Just look at some other titles so you can get an idea how long they can/should be.

I still don't see the difference between this thread and the other one, I think the other thread asked if Greer is a hoax, and I agree with your observation very little evidence was posted there to support that conclusion, maybe you'll get better evidence here but I seriously think you need a better title.

Originally posted by Total Package

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Total Package

 

well for starters,

Greer claims he "vectored" in the Phoenix lights UFO

www.abovetopsecret.com...

need i say more ?

Ok.... do we have any proof that he didn't? Was he spotted out that night in a restauarant having dinner so could not possibly have been vectoring the UFO's in... or was he in another state or country? Where is the proof.

I could claim I "will" the sun to rise every morning (or "vector it" if you prefer that terminology), and obviously it rises so can you prove I didn't? You can't prove a negative, you can only prove a positive, so let's keep the burden of proof in that perspective. On the surface it does sound like a laughable assertion, and no I can't prove he didn't nor would I try, just like you shouldn't try to prove I'm not the one making the sun come up every morning, both statements seem equally ridiculous.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Total Package



...

The 'disclosure' game is not about the puppets, is it?

...

IMO Greer is in it for the money.

He might not have started that way but selling his books and videos after the disclosure project is what made him see the light. So now I dont believe anything he says anymore.

BTW He has an anonymous handle on this site, guess which one

Originally posted by TallWhites
BTW He has an anonymous handle on this site, guess which one

I couldn't begin to guess out of thousands of handles, but please feel free to enlighten us.

You can't knock his achievement with the Disclosure Project.

And there are plenty of stories of contactees who've communicated via telepathy. I've experienced enough things in my life to be pretty sure that psychic powers are possible. It's illogical to assume there aren't more evolved species than us. I can't rule out the possibility of Greer communicating with ETs telepathically with the magisterial certainty of some of the posters here.

Strype - "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" is actually the fallacy of personal incredulity, and is an absolute misuse of the word proof. Carl Sagan really messed with people's heads when he came out with that little nugget, and I'll do anything I can to stamp out its ubiquity.

Top 20 Logical Fallacies

Argument from Personal Incredulity
I cannot explain or understand this, therefore it cannot be true. Creationists are fond of arguing that they cannot imagine the complexity of life resulting from blind evolution, but that does not mean life did not evolve.

Please don't think I'm defending Greer here, necessarily. I'm just trying to point out that this saying of Sagan's is very destructive... not least because, as I said, it misuses the word "proof", as do so many people on this board.

There are two kinds of proof, mathematical and legal. Mathematical proofs obey the laws of a closed system and produce a result consistent with those laws. Legal proof consists of convincing a number of people that the evidence before them leads to a specified conclusion, either on balance of probabilities or beyond reasonable doubt, depending on circumstances.

It's been pretty well known since Karl Popper's Logic of Scientific Discovery that you cannot prove a scientific theory or hypothesis, you can only produce evidence that supports it or refutes it. In other words, you can only disprove a theory.

I have to say that the example I've quoted above is annoying, but I chose it anyway because it's so typical. Pseudoskeptics like Dawkins are fond of quoting the AFPE to refute Creationists, but then pull exactly the same stunt when debating people like Rupert Sheldrake, who has plenty of evidence for the reality of psi effects. Of course Dawkins can only maintain this attitude by refusing to look at the Sheldrake's evidence, despite having had it handed to him on a plate by Sheldrake himself.

(Personally I find Darwinism unconvincing for all sorts of reasons, some of which are based on personal incredulity, but mainly because it avoids the issue of speciation almost completely. The only one to really look at it is Stephen Jay Gould, and his theory of "punctuated equilibrium" is more descriptive than analytical.)

I also rather think that Sagan knew a great deal more than he spoke about openly, and I think part of his job was to act as a disinfo agent. I say this because of certain passages in some of his books that are otherwise difficult to explain, but don't ask me to quote any from memory.

Back to Greer... personally I find him rather arrogant and the recent business with Project Camelot at the Barcelona Exoplitics conference is weird. Mind you, that Kerry woman, how annoying is she? If I were a whistleblower I think I'd rather be interviewed by Leno, and take uninformed and predictable ridicule over muddle-headed rudeness any day.

If it's true that Greer now has bodyguards, and if it's true that he's now a) saying all ETs are lovely and b) the US government has never had any contact with ETs, I'd say he's been nobbled. And as he's moved into the free energy area, he's more of a threat to the current power structure than ever before, and therefore much more likely to be nobbled.

He's kind of made a thing in the past of being very self-deprecatory about his own personal courage in getting Disclosure happening, so if he's turned around and got bodyguards, what does that say about him?

It's also possible that their function might not be merely as bodyguards, but that they're there to keep him under control.

I think some people might find this interesting viewing:

Colin Andrews and the CIA

It gives an interesting perspective that could well apply to Greer's situation.

Originally posted by TallWhites
BTW He has an anonymous handle on this site, guess which one

He does? How do you know that?

I don't think he does. People have been trying to get his attention on here for years and he never responds, just pretends like ATS doesn't even exist. He even cancelled his scheduled ATS Mix interview a while back.

Oh well.

ok ... do u guys know what country in G7 wants dr greer to teach and show them how to make contact?

is he lying too?