First Documented UFO Debunked

First Documented UFO Debunked
I find it kind of ironic that my first thread matches my first post. If you studied UFO lure from the first modern sketch ever made, you would know the name Kenneth Arnold. 1947 was an extraordinary year for modern UFO lure. One month before the Roswell UFO crash, Kenneth Arnold and many others witnessed several UFOs. After Arnold's initial experiences, he sketched a drawing that resembled what he saw.



What Arnold and the general public didn't know was the human explanation. At the end of World War II in Germany (1944), American forces captured diagrams of Hitler's Stealth Fighter. Its official name is Horten Ho 229.

en.wikipedia.org...



As you can tell by Kenneth's sketch and the actual prototype design, his UFO was nothing more than a German made aircraft. As of this very moment, I'm creating a historical outline that will connect Kenneth's sketch to the Horton to the Roswell crash in 1947. I will present my full analysis for your opinion next week.

If my evidence is correct, the craft found in Roswell was not alien in nature. Its was a American prototype of what they found in Germany.

More to come...

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Pathos]

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Pathos]

There is a big wing in this video:

Perhaps Arnold was on to something.

Seriously, if you're gonna wait til some point in the future to really present your case then why not wait til then to post this?

Well whilst it looks like it.... Arnold also stated it looked like a saucer skipping along water and moving erratically... which doesn't seem to fit the characteristics of this thing or in fact any man made aircraft.... unless once again the government had technology 60 years ago that could do these manouveres and have held it back from us.

WOW!!!

If it is on Wikipedia it must be true then!!! :O

[/sarcasm]

Some of us have already made that connection. Flying wing
But unless you have something more substantial to back it up it's just a theory.

Slayer is right. While I am a skeptic, this "theory" doesn't have enough hard evidence to back it up. The KA sightings revealed that the craft were moving like saucers across a pond. Not typical flight charactistics for the Horten or any poached desgin from the U.S.. You are on the right track my friend, but need some more solid eveidence to put this one to bed.

The Arnold sighting was in the North West yet the German Free Energy
scientists were in New Mexico since 1945.

The Arnold 'saucer' UFO made headlines because Roswell was in the works
to be a saucer.

What gets me is how did the Horton get outfitted with 'anti gravity' up
in the North West.
Unless the hardware is easy to transfer and install.

And why I think Tesla was up in Oregon at one time with
John Jacob Astor with the dirigible torpedo project.
Tesla pre dates the German free energy saucer 'anti gravity'
scientists cause they used Tesla science.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Some of us have already made that connection. Flying wing
But unless you have something more substantial to back it up it's just a theory.

What were their findings SLAYERT69.
Don't just link us in the dark.

Originally posted by Resinveins
Seriously, if you're gonna wait til some point in the future to really present your case then why not wait til then to post this?

What was found in Germany.
The place was littered with phony Hitler disk craft.
Unless he found a good Roswell saucer.

Nothing was left usable in Germany.
We got the anti gravity plans and engineers pilots and scientists.
Patton was suspected in messing up the plans.
Bill Lyne found a saucer remote compass.

Perhaps all we suspect.

reply to post by TeslaandLyne


It was speculation of a possible misidentification such as the premise of this thread. A test flight of a captured group of German crafts. You do realize that the early flying wings were unstable hence the reason for their lack of support. At least that's what we were lead to believe.

But if true it would explain what Arnold saw as a group of crescent shaped crafts "skipping" along could also be described as a very real early flying wing's "wobbly" flight characteristic such as the early flying wing had.

The present generation flying wings rely heavily on computers to keep them flying smoothly.


[edit on 30-7-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by Resinveins
Seriously, if you're gonna wait til some point in the future to really present your case then why not wait til then to post this?

I introduced one subject for thought, and just advertised another subject for a later debate.

Originally posted by bskivss3
WOW!!!

If it is on Wikipedia it must be true then!!! :O

[/sarcasm]

I wouldn't use wikipedia as a 'informational' source. I just wanted to use their photos.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne

Originally posted by Resinveins
Seriously, if you're gonna wait til some point in the future to really present your case then why not wait til then to post this?

What was found in Germany.
The place was littered with phony Hitler disk craft.
Unless he found a good Roswell saucer.

Nothing was left usable in Germany.
We got the anti gravity plans and engineers pilots and scientists.
Patton was suspected in messing up the plans.
Bill Lyne found a saucer remote compass.

Perhaps all we suspect.

Roswell didn't occur until two years after the Horton was found.

Originally posted by TeslaandLyne
The Arnold sighting was in the North West yet the German Free Energy
scientists were in New Mexico since 1945.

The Arnold 'saucer' UFO made headlines because Roswell was in the works
to be a saucer.

After the US government got a hold of the Horton design, they developed and were test flying a early version of the B-2.

=========================================

Wow! Some of you guys are really passionate about Roswell and UFOs. I didn't think that 'actual' evidence used to debunk UFOs would be pushed to the side. I can't wait until I get all of my other details hammered out.

You guys have to wake up a little. Sure, I use to believe UFOs were real, but I kind of opened up to a sense of rationality. Even though I believe there are other species living on other planets, I have read and seen so much more in support of a Earthly explanation to UFOs.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Pathos]

Has it been common practice to build nine prototypes and then test them in formation? What point would be served? The Horton was an unsuccessful design and abandoned by Northrop-Grumman. They used original Nazi blueprints and were *unlikely* to build nine as test-craft. I could be mistaken...

A real 'debunking' were the a**holes that claimed he'd seen a flight of pelicans (fairly insulting). Then Klass stepped up to the plate and claimed that Arnold had actually seen meteorites. It tantamount to publicly being called stupid.

Originally posted by bskivss3
WOW!!!

If it is on Wikipedia it must be true then!!! :O

[/sarcasm]

The Hoten Ho IX was a real plane.

As usual, a person can check the accuracy of this Wikipedia article (or any Wikipedia article) by simply checking the references and sources.

I'm not saying this is what Kenneth Arnold saw, I'm just saying that Wikipedia is a valid resource if it cites other verifiable sources.

Arnold also estimated the speed of the saucers at up to 1400 mph, almost twice the speed of sound, a couple months before Yeager broke Mach 1.

reply to post by Pathos
Hey, there's no harm in asking questions and not accepting the assumptions of others. Statistics on UFO versus misidentification are usually in the ballpark of 5-10% of reported UFO sightings remain unexplained. That leaves up to 95% that are planets, landing lights, car lights on hills, Perseids, Leonids, bolides etc etc. It means that 9 out of ten people misidentify lights in the sky because it's outside most people's frame of reference. Of the 5-10% that remain unidentified...I'd bet at least half would be correctly identified if circumstances were repeated...

I'd recommend a visit to the NARCAP:National Aviation Reporting Center on Anomalous Phenomena The guy that runs it has a mind like bear trap. Very sharp and fast. He's in interview here (right click save as/ save link as). The interview is with Dr Richard F Haines and deals specifically with pilot and aircrew sightings up to the present day. Probably the best UFO related interview I've heard so far. Fantastic

here we go again..... The Horten aircraft were never secret and were never used by the USA. In actual fact they were placed on display in one of the branches of the Smithsonian Museum where they lay completely forgotten until, by chance, in the early 60s, when a group of designers were given the task of producing *stealth designs* happened to visit the Museum and spot the Horten Brothers aircraft...

So the idea that the USA was flying them in 1947 is complete and utter balderdash...

The only Nazi design that was actually produced, post WW2, was the Focke Wulf TA 183 which the Argentinians went onto develop..




It does become rather tiresome to see this misinformation dragged up time and time again by those seeking to explain the Arnold craft... They were nothing to do with the Horten brothers designs at all.

The only surviving Ho 229 is in the National Air and Space Museum's Paul E. Garber Restoration Facility in Suitland, Maryland. and has been for gawd knows how long...


[edit on 30-7-2009 by FireMoon]

Oh and it wasn't the first documented sighting of a UFO at all, another myth...

www.scribd.com...

A list of astronomers, you know them, they are the one's who never see UFOs...

reply to post by FireMoon

So the idea that the USA was flying them in 1947 is complete and utter balderdash...

What about the American Freel Flying Wing glider from 1937 and the American Northrop N-1M from 1940.

Did these not exist??

I'll admit, (without looking at Arnold's sketches to refresh) that these german craft bear a strong resemblence to the wing of Chevrons reported by him. Past that, I see no evidence to support those craft ever being in flight in the US, especially in 1947, or that the US captured more than one after the war, or to show that the US reverse engineered or copied this craft, and then sent 9 of them together in the same sortie? That just makes no sense...no more than military intelligence, but alas...

If this was what Arnold saw, why, after all this time, hasn't the air force come out and admitted that these are the craft responsible for the entire UFO fiasco? I mean, these dinosaurs...even exp. craft based on them...haven't been classified for years (?)

CDS