The end of "911 Conpiracy", and the beginning of "911 Common Knowledge"

Originally posted by king9072

Short Anecdote:
A young boy walks out of a store, the owner quickly catches up and feels the young man may have stolen some items. He asks the boy “do you mind emptying your pockets?”. If the boy has not stolen anything, he would quickly empty his pockets confirming his innocence. But, if the boy has stolen something, he will do whatever he possibly can to avoid a search.

If this were to happen, the store owner would be open to a lawsuit. Sorry but it's a bad analogy.

You assume guilt just because the boy may not want to cooperate. What if the boy simply doesn't want to be searched....Unreasonable search and seizure ya know?

Your idea is basically that failure to comply with an unreasonable request means automatic guilt. This is not how you should want things to run and I most definitely don't want to see things run this way.

I wonder what the odds are for one building collapsing neatly at virtual freefall speed into its own footprint due to fire?

Given that, I wonder what the odds are for 3 buildings in the same complex collapsing neatly at virtual freefall speed into their own footprints due to fire on the same day?

I would like to ask debunkers, why is there a demand for controlled demolition companies all around the world if just a fire can bring down a building symmetrically at virtual freefall speeed into its own footprint?

Originally posted by jfj123
What if the boy simply doesn't want to be searched....Unreasonable search and seizure ya know?

Not now you have the Patriot Act!

Great post king90782, well done.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE OFFICIAL STORY.

It is full of events that are just IMPOSSIBLE ! I find it staggering that anyone who has looked into this can believe this utter nonsense. It is complete and utter drivel from beginning to end. It is a complete pack of lies of immense proportions and the lies are just farcical.

What I really worry about is what this is all leading to. It is going to take away our children's freedom and their right to have a chance of having a good life. It may well be worse than that because a government that will do such a thing to its own people have demonstrated that they will stop at nothing.

This really needs to be broadcast more in the mainstream media to make people more aware of the full 911 fairy-story. However as they fully control the media, this is very going to be very difficult. I just hope that there is some way that we can force a legal investigation and prove that one part of the Official Fairy Story is a lie. Because then it will be clear that all of it is a lie. You cannot have some of it true and some of it a lie.

For those of you that still believe the Official Story please look at this picture. If you can, please zoom in and take a good detailed look. It is supposed to be a building that is pancaking, not exploding, pancaking.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/93fc16c41bcf.jpg[/atsimg]

posted by Seventh

I mean come on, it`s a fair chance that everyone has seen the site of a serious crime before and what happens, it`s cordoned off and forensic experts are there for days if not weeks sifting through the minutest of particles looking for clues, how many huge court cases have ended in guilty or not guilty solely on the support of forensic evidence.

Look how much evidence was censored and kept from the public, solely on the excuse that it was being saved for the Zacharias Moussouai Trial. After trial, a lot of that evidence was ordered released by judges via FOIA.

There were potentially hundreds of court cases just like Moussouai and much evidence would have been needed. Yet they made no effort whatsoever with the WTC debris, refused to allow scientists assigned the role of investigating the WTC destruction, access to the debris piles, and shipped it as rapidly as possible out of country for melting down. Scientists had their hands tied and could not do their jobs to their best abilities. Cameras and videos and photos were confiscated and journalists were arrested. Thousands of people were bullied and threatened and gag-ordered by the FBI. Why were OUR Federal Agencies protecting the 9-11 perps?

Definitely something to hide.

So little effort at investigation was expended, that the FBI doesn't even have one shred of physical evidence that Usama bin Laden was involved in 9-11. We have bin Laden denials from the first; and lousy faked confession videos and later audios because their actors were so bad.

So now they claim Khalid Sheikh Mohammad was the mastermind of 9-11 although he has made fools out of his torturers. Osama was the official mastermind within minutes of Flight 11 hitting WTC 1; but now years later it is somebody else. But occasionally still, they ressurrect Osam and put the blame on his bony shoulders, and then it is back to the other guy. Like watching a ping-pong match. Back and forth. It's him and now back to him and tomorrow......

Well just believe us you dumb blind led-by-the-nose sheeple.

Hundreds of firemen wanted to testify before the 9-11 Whitewash Commission and they were prohibited and ignored. A bunch of military officers deliberately lied to the 9-11 Whitewash Commission and nothing was done. The same military officers lied to Congress and again nothing was done about it. Lying under oath is illegal under our justice system and these corrupt fools mock us. Why were these Federal Agencies protecting the 9-11 perps?

Not one single serial number was obtained from 400+ tons of alleged hijacked wrecked aircraft to use as evidence in trials against accused 9-11 perps. It is almost like OUR Justice System expected no trials and no evidence needed. Why were all these Federal Agencies protecting the 9-11 perps?

Somebody bankrolled the attack. Millions of dollars must have been spent to infiltrate NORAD and compromise US air defense. More millions to infiltrate WTC and Pentagon security and pack the buildings with explosives. More millions to infiltrate and compromise security at three major US airports and two major airlines. Somebody paid to have the alleged 9-11 hijackers trained on US Military bases. You can't just walk up to the main gate and sign-up for free training.

No efforts whatsoever to identify and prosecute the put-options speculators with obvious 9-11 inside foreknowledge. Why did another Federal Agency protect the 9-11 perps?

Somebody had a lot to hide and no visible efforts to track down the 9-11 bankrollers. Why is that?

Definitely something to hide.

Definitely a need for a real investigation on the entire

9-11 New Pearl Harbor Event. Anybody disagree?

In relation to Spreston`s post as well, look at the passenger lists for all four flights, not even with aliases can you spot one terrorists name...

Amazing

Originally posted by Mark_Amy
I wonder what the odds are for one building collapsing neatly at virtual freefall speed into its own footprint due to fire?

Given that, I wonder what the odds are for 3 buildings in the same complex collapsing neatly at virtual freefall speed into their own footprints due to fire on the same day?

I would like to ask debunkers, why is there a demand for controlled demolition companies all around the world if just a fire can bring down a building symmetrically at virtual freefall speeed into its own footprint?

Well to start, JUST A FIRE, didn't bring down 3 buildings.
2 buildings were hit by BIG planes and caused structural damage.
So you have structural damage + fire = rubble.
Oh and please don't use the Empire State building as an argument...not the same thing

"I do not believe the official 911 story."

An EXCELLENT post, thank you very much!

You have "hit the nail on the head". I 100% agree with you on everything you stated. I do not want to repeat what you have already stated, again, your facts are complete and concise.

I would like to add:

Within 30 minutes of the first plane hitting the towers, how did all the television networks know OBL was the culprit? To me, this was utterly ridiculous, and when I heard it, I continually ask, "How do they know OBL is responsible for this act?" No investigation, no nothing... (Problem, Reaction, Solution).

You are 100% correct on "coincednces", I no longer believe in them, because of 911, simply preposterous.

The entire 911 story the government and TV wants us to believe is a fairy tale and if you believe it, you are living in a fantasy world.

2+2=?



[edit on 19-7-2009 by octaviameister]

reply to post by king9072


Regarding the searching of the boy story.
I'll give you a factual comparison as to why, not wanted to be search does not automatically indicate guilt.

I am a contractor who spends ALOT of money at a chain building supply center. The particular store I shop at used to have security standing at the exit and they would ask you to see your receipt. Keeping in mind that the security was ALWAYS stations within 10 feet of the registers. I always refused to give them the receipt I put into my wallet at the register so I could move the cartSSSS full of merchandise to my truck. It was simply inconvenient to take it back out aside from the fact that there was no reason for me to pull it back out.
In any case, they would always ask and I would always politely refuse and tell them to have a nice day. Well one day, one thought he was big and tough and tried to stop me. Now I've never stole anything so I simply told him to get out of my way as he had no right to stop me. He insisted that I show him my receipt and I told him that if he didn't let me pass, I'd call the police and have him arrested. I explained that I knew what the law was and he was currently violating it and he knew it. He QUICKLY stepped aside and I left. I called the corp. office and filed a complaint and threatened a lawsuit. Next day, all the security was gone.

Now the reason I'm telling you this story is that I was completely innocent yet I didn't empty my pockets and give up my rights. Non-compliance does not mean guilt.

I agree that it is not on the American people to completely explain the truth behind 9/11, but only to expose that it did not happen that way. The truth can only be discovered after you have federal subpoena power to call suspects such as Bush, which you would never be able to do without. Individuals tried to arrest Karl Rove and they couldn't even arrest him, do you really think they could arrest Condoleeza Rice or Rumsfeldt? We have to work through the slime covered system they call our government to expose the slim behind the acts.

But, I should also like to say that it is not as cut and dry as you say, it is not either you believe in the official story or not, since the majority of people could care less one way or another. This is the apathy that always separates one side from another, and unfortunately almost always bends to the way of vice: if they are ignorant to begin with they are that much closer to being evil.

People in Ohio and the other middle states no doubt weren't in New York City when it happened. They heard the news, heard about the war, there were a handful of protesters who protested the war. They weren't arrested or targeted by the Bush admin like perhaps some were in Texas, but they were ignored. Some even, like myself, lost friends or family members, so no doubt it connects us, but I think they have so little knowledge of the official story itself that telling them an alternative is pointless. Why is it an alternative anyway? Our theory is the official theory. The government is official in name only. Another trick they pulled on us before we even got the conspiracies rolling was to call themselves the skeptics and us the theorists. Excuse me, but a true skeptic is skeptical of the mainstream myth, whatever myth that is, perpetuated by ignorance and misinformation. Never is a skeptic someone who is skeptical of someone else, that is simply the theorist. The government is the real conspiracy theorist. And if you are skeptical of an alternative theory, yet back the government theory like every single 9/11 debunker, then you are not a debunker at all but are going with the mainstream myth. The 9/11 truth movement debunks the government's story, and that is the real debunking. When a critic then tries to debunk the 9/11 truther's theory, it is understandable. After all, who can say if a plane or missile hit the pentagon, I know who could, the FBI and CIA who confiscated the tapes! But if you look at the evidence and either see plane parts or no plane parts, you can start to make up your own mind. 9/11 is so complicated that they tried to take all the smoking guns out of it, but couldn't help but to leave some behind. The top secret smoking guns would only strengthen the case, but until then, we have to call it like it is. I recommend this website

www.angelfire.com...

posted by king9072
How anyone can believe that fires in one portion of any steel structured building could cause uniform, and complete structural failure, to allow almost free fall descent speed - is beyond me.

posted by paraphi
I guess you are not a structural engineer! The properties of steel changes when subjected to heat and the effect of collapse in one area would have a cascade effect. I am not structural engineer myself,

Perhaps it would and perhaps it would not depending on damage. A steel-framed building is built to support the floors above with highly redundant strength built in.

Regardless, all that cascading effect would take lots and lots of time, as connections were broken and succeeding floors were crushed. On the North Tower, starting at the 97th floor a crush time of one second per floor would take 97 seconds for the 97th floor to reach ground level. One second (say one thousand and one) is a mighty fast timespan, to crush a 44,100 square foot floor area and pulverize all it's contents and its concrete floor into fine dust.

But NIST and the seismic records officially claim 10 seconds and 9 seconds for the near-freefall collapse of WTC 1. Where do you think the missing 87 seconds plus 9 seconds approximate free-fall time disappeared to? How could 97 floors of welded and bolted steel and concrete, crush and pulverize into fine dust while hurling 4 ton pieces of outer wall sections 600 feet away from the tower, in a mere 10 seconds?

And since all that 110 story steel frame is welded and bolted together, and it was going to fail anyway, why didn't it fail at the bottom also and crush upwards from the bottom?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/9d8429713339.jpg[/atsimg]

As each floor was pulverized and the alleged crush wave moved downward, there would be less and less total weight on the bottom floors. So why did the bottom floors wait until it was their turn before crushing and pulverizing? Why didn't they crush and pulverize into dust right at the very beginning of the collapse? Very suspicious isn't it?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b817965410cc.jpg[/atsimg]

WTC 7 allegedly crushed from the bottom up. Why did the towers (except for the top 30 floors on WTC2 and the top 13 floors on WTC 1) crush from the top down? What made them different? Why didn't they just stop crushing when they got down to floors undamaged by heat or fire or aircraft impact? Why did floors wait until there was less mass and load on them, before they decided to crush and pulverize into fine dust?

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d97a33c0a367.gif[/atsimg]

I do not believe the official story....that`s it!!

Never bought the officious sounding lie.That evidence,the steel,was lost to us when chain of custody was broken.The analogy of the little boy is apt as he was a minor,unaccompanied with less rights than a man,mr contractor.

Excellent post King, as usual. I would however add two more amazing coincidences to the story.

One : Norad was running a training exercise on that precise day, which happened to depict the exact scenario of what was really going on. Airliners being used as weapons by terrorists agaist the US.

Two : Although not (?) directly linked to the 9/11 events, the london bombings followed the same scenario. They took place on the day of an exercise, the purpose of which was to prepare for terrorist attacks on the london tube.

Bombs away !

Originally posted by trueforger
Never bought the officious sounding lie.That evidence,the steel,was lost to us when chain of custody was broken.The analogy of the little boy is apt as he was a minor,unaccompanied with less rights than a man,mr contractor.

Oh that's right. Children have no rights...I forgot
And of course the parent of the child with no rights wouldn't have a problem with the man searching the child...It's not like there haven't been any court cases about the exact same thing....oh wait

Good points. Let me to add a few things.

First of all anyone who would laughs off the idea that 9/11 was an inside job is forgetting one or two things.

The first attack on the WTC buildings that killed 8 people was also an inside job.
An FBI informer named Emad Salem provided explosives to people that were being targeted in a terrorism sting operation by the government. Every step of the way this FBI informer was checking in with the FBI and reminding them that the people being framed actually had REAL EXPLOSIVES. At every step the FBI told the informer to go along with the operation. It was carried out and people died.

Second, going back to 9/11, why does information regarding the Dancing Israelis that filmed the planes going into the towers and were giving each other high fives remain classified? The Israelis were detained for ten weeks by the U.S. government and sent back to Israel. Once back they were on this program.

(Clearly the commentary is someone else's)


www.youtube.com...


Again clearly when building 7 fell, it had already sustained damage on one particular side. Yet the building fell straight down. If you've ever had the misfortune of sitting on a stool with one weak leg and the stool breaks, you know it doesn't fall straight down.

Finally let's go back to the example the author of this post gave regarding a school child suspected of being a criminal. If one is suspected of being a thief, in the first moment or two after the accusation one might take offense to being accused of a theft and refuse to cooperate - but unless one is guilty - clearly it becomes obvious that one would want to set their good name straight. Sure one could wait for the police to come - but most people in that situation would be offended, empty their pockets, and say: Satisfied?! and get out of there.

So why doesn't the U.S. government empty its pockets? Why act like they are hiding something, unless they really are?! Certainly having a large segment of the population thinking the government is involved in a 9/11 cover-up doesn't foster good will among the population.

That can't be good for the government to be suspected as being criminal. Again, why not just empty the pockets. Well, most of us know why!

- I do not believe the official story -

Unbiased individuals examining the facts of 911 understand the official story just doesn't add up. It seems highly improbable that all of these unlikely scenarios can occur within the same short time period.

This conversation has some parallels with some of the theological discussions on ATS.

facts versus fantasy,
probability versus faith,
Knowledge versus ignorance
truth versus lie,

If the debunkers have so much "faith" in the official story, they should be the first individuals to sign a petition to reopen the 911 investigation to prove us wrong.

“I do not believe the official story”

When the information available is considered from the largest perspective possible, proof of who the guilty are in this case, and their devastating influence on the lives of the people is painfully evident. The further proof that their actions have been deliberately ignored and persistently withheld from the people of America and the world is obvious.

What bewilders people being force-fed sugar-coated programmed information by the main-stream-media ( i.e. Hollywood ), is why on the one hand “truths” are supported and denied at the same time. It accomplishes one purpose, which is confusion.

“Financial Proof and More that 9/11 was an Inside Job!”
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Unfortunately today we live in a world, where the selfish rule.


[edit on 19-7-2009 by seasoul]

reply to post by king9072

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE OFFICIAL STORY

Excellent post. It was horrifying to think that 9/11 could have been planned.....but with the evidence that has gradually been brought to our attention....I just cannot ignore the fact that unfortunately it must be true.

However, I do believe there is a good reason for everything that happens , even though we can't always see it at the time.
I think some good has definitely come out of 9/11, as so many people have become enlightened to what has been going on in the world, and now have their eyes fully open so as not to be fooled again!!

Do you know what I'd like to see? I'd like to see a thread started by the debunkers called "Why the official story is true!" and I think only debunkers should be allowed to post in it. Although I don't believe the official story is true, I'm not that arrogant to have closed my mind to any other ideas than my own, however in opposition to my ideas they may be.

All we see here day after day is, "I'm right and you're wrong and you must be an idiot if you can't see that!" It just goes on and on and back and forth and gets nowhere.

I'd really like to read and follow a serious thread contributed to by people who believe that the official story is true because maybe we are missing something! Maybe they are seeing something, which we have closed our minds to and have become blind to. Maybe given the opportunity to exchange their ideas together, without having to go on the offense or defense, they may produce ideas that make us think, "You know, I never really thought about it that way before!"

After all, isn't that the kind of open-mindedness we ask of them?