How can you deny ignorance?

Okay don't get me wrong here, i love this site.

But the motto: 'Deny Ignorance' seems to get banded about like it's the answer to any question on the whole site. It really annoys me when some smart arse replies to my comment with 'DENY IGNORANCE' as though they have righted all wrongs and by saying that they are somehow right. It's very frustrating.

It doesn't even really mean anything anyway.

By denying something, you are declaring it untrue. So are you essentially saying igorance is untrue?

Ignorance: The lack of knowledge or education.

To deny the lack of knowledge or education.

It's almost a foolish statement.

--

I prefer the opposite side of the coin.

ACCEPT KNOWLEDGE.

At least that way it suggests that wisdom and knowledge can be accepted and processed and is of a slightly more positive tilt,no matter what portion of knowledge is shared and it makes bloody sense.


Pfft.

There's a rant forum over at BTS.

I would prefer to say Accept wisdom.

Ignorance is a state in which a person lacks knowledge and is not aware of
or refuses to accept the truth in spite of evidence.

To me, our motto means... open our minds to the possibilities of a "true reality"
in which that "state" may be withheld ..and or is not obvious.
]

Let's say for the sake of example that I am the embodiment of ignorance. I walk up to your house and knock on your door. *bang bang bang*

You answer the door.

"Hello, can I come in?"

"No!" you shout, and double-bolt the door.

You have denied ignorance.

Think of the house as your brain and the door as your reason.

DENY IGNORANCE!

Originally posted by theyreadmymind
Let's say for the sake of example that I am the embodiment of ignorance. I walk up to your house and knock on your door. *bang bang bang*

You answer the door.

"Hello, can I come in?"

"No!" you shout, and double-bolt the door.

You have denied ignorance.

Think of the house as your brain and the door as your reason.

DENY IGNORANCE!

So let me see if I got this straight...

If I slam the door on you and keep you out I have denied ignorance... So you are saying your ignorant and slamming the door is a closed mind?

Hmmm

reply to post by zorgon


Yes. Close your mind when ignorance comes knocking, but in general keep it open.

Well i guess ignorace varies from board to board. What might fly for smart in Aliens and UFO may get you called ignorant in the general conspiracy board. While one will accept the possibility of the UFO being alien the other may call you ignorant because those are government planes and that is the conspiracy. I do not have anything against either of the boards im just using it as an example.
The real question is why do people who do not believe in any of the paranormal/conspiracy subjects post at ATS at all.
anyways i like the thread S&F.

edit to add:
You should never shut the door on anyone completley. If there is a fire breaking out in your back yard and Billy Meier calls you to tell you about it, it may be worth listening to him that time.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by spiracy]

reply to post by mr-lizard


I think it's a good phrase, because both the skeptics and the believers think it applies to them. When i say good, I mean good as a buzzphrase for all users, everyone would like to think they are denying ignorance. You are right it's meaningless. I just ignore it.

One mans ignorance is another mans perception, and a persons perception is their reality.

In other words, just because one person believes something, doesn't mean everyone who disagrees is ignorant.

Yes it can be a tad annoying when someone uses a motto to semi-demean or belittle another point of view.

BUT
IMO "denying ignorance" is the open minded discussion of topics which challenge preconceived idea's and opinions, leading to a better understanding of the subject matter.

Ignorance is the state in which a person lacks knowledge, is unaware of something or chooses to subjectively ignore information. This should not be confused with being unintelligent, as one's level of intelligence and level of education or general awareness are not the same. The word "Ignorant" is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware. The term may be used specifically (e.g. "One can be an expert in math, and totally ignorant of history.") or generally (e.g. "an ignorant person.") -- although the second use is used less as a descriptive and more as an imprecise personal insult.

source

So perhaps "denying ignorance" may also be described as "embracing education"

That's why I come here - for knowledge - regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

Originally posted by spiracy
You should never shut the door on anyone completley. If there is a fire breaking out in your back yard and Billy Meier calls you to tell you about it, it may be worth listening to him that time.

Now THAT one made me spew my coffee but excellent point

Originally posted by budski

So perhaps "denying ignorance" may also be described as "embracing education"

That's why I come here - for knowledge - regardless of whether I agree with it or not.

Good point budski. I see it similar.

However, you can also say "savoring ingorance" may also be described as "embracing education."


I like to hear both sides of the story in everything (b4 making a rational decision). Sort of speak........

I like to look at every angle of a subject, including ignorance.

I don't know..........

A great element of ATS/BTS is the volume of opinios on (any) subject.

So I value the ignorance as well. I just don't agree with it.

But what thing I do notice. Hypocrisy.

I also feel like people wanna throw their weight around and resppond with "DENY IGNORANCE" and yet spread ignorance in another thread.

It's a form of entertainment in some sense.

I don't let it get to me.

I'll just make a sanguich and have a laugh.

Originally posted by spiracy
edit to add:
You should never shut the door on anyone completley. If there is a fire breaking out in your back yard and Billy Meier calls you to tell you about it, it may be worth listening to him that time.
[edit on 4-6-2009 by spiracy]

Especially if he's carrying a flame-thrower.

Isn't the concept of "denying ignorance" quite simple really....

If I think someone doesn't know something, I try to inform them of it.

If I think someone is wrong about something, I try to tell them why.

If I think someone is lying, I try to tell them how I know they are.

If I think someone won't believe something, I try to tell them why they could.

etc, etc....."try to" being the operative words.

Being the willing recipient of the above responses also involves "denying ingorance" (to ones self).

Knowledge and truth......what we all make of it and do with it though is up to each individual.

Please feel free to excersise any of the above to further enlighten me......nerb

Deny \De*ny"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Denied; p. pr. & vb. n. Denying.]

[OE. denien, denaien, OF. denier, deneer, F. d['e]nier, fr. L. denegare; de- + negare to say no, deny. See Negation.]

1. To declare not to be true; to gainsay; to contradict; -- opposed to affirm, allow, or admit.

Note: We deny what another says, or we deny the truth of an assertion, the force of it, or the assertion itself.

2. To refuse (to do something or to accept something); to reject; to decline; to renounce. [Obs.]

``If you deny to dance.'' --Shak.

3. To refuse to grant; to withhold; to refuse to gratify or yield to; as, to deny a request.

Who finds not Providence all good and wise, Alike in what it gives, and what denies? --Pope.

To some men, it is more agreeable to deny a vicious inclination, than to gratify it. --J. Edwards.

4. To disclaim connection with, responsibility for, and the like; to refuse to acknowledge; to disown; to abjure; to disavow.

The falsehood of denying his opinion. --Bancroft.

Thou thrice denied, yet thrice beloved. --Keble.

To deny one's self, to decline the gratification of appetites or desires; to practice self-denial.

Let him deny himself, and take up his cross. --Matt. xvi. 24.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

---

Ignorance \Ig"no*rance\, n. [F., fr. L. ignorantia.]

1. The condition of being ignorant; the want of knowledge in general, or in relation to a particular subject; the state of being uneducated or uninformed.

Ignorance is the curse of God, Knowledge the wing wherewith we fly to heaven. --Shak.

2. (Theol.) A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have. --Book of Common Prayer.

Invincible ignorance (Theol.), ignorance beyond the individual's control and for which, therefore, he is not responsible before God.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913)

Originally posted by nerbot

etc, etc....."try to" being the operative words.

How about this one?

"try to" be open to the possibility that you are wrong.

[Not you personally right now]

I mean while during a debate etc.

I've always had a problem with the deny ignorance motto myself.

The begining of knowledge is to recognize ones own ignorance.

If I deny my own ignorance I can never learn anything. As such my personal motto is more like, "Embrace Ignorance". That would be a far better statement than "Deny Ignorance. But again, only if you believe that knowledge is knowing that you know nothing. (if you don't agree go agrue with Socrates and Plato)

Vas

Originally posted by SLAYER69
How about this one?
"try to" be open to the possibility that you are wrong.

I thought I covered that in this statement:

Originally posted by nerbot

"snip"....

If I think someone is wrong about something, I try to tell them why.

...."snip"

Being the willing recipient of the above responses also involves "denying ingorance" (to ones self).

Originally posted by Vasilis Azoth
If I deny my own ignorance I can never learn anything.

"deny (do not allow) ignorance".....NOT "deny (ignore) ignorance.

Be the brick wall.....let nothing past without scrutiny.

Don't pretend there's nothing there to BE scrutinised.

reply to post by Vasilis Azoth


A nice phrase I have seen used which expresses this idea of remembering no-one is infallible is:

Even men of steel rust.