Are the pics of Iraqi prisoner torture super imposed???

You have to remember that the soccer jersey is a very dark green. A 'hunter green'. It only appears white, because of the way the photograph was taken. I'm not trying to say these photos are fake or not, I'm just trying to help us make a decision.

No way is that a dark green. The dark colours on the soldiers desert combat trousers and his webbing haven't come out white.

One other thing perturbs me. Why is this photo taken or processed in black and white? I hardly know anyone who takes black and white photos unless they are professional photographers.
British newspapers print in colour also so it can't be blamed on the transfer to print.

Further confirmation that the authenticity that at least some of the photos (probably those released by TheMirror) are being investigated:
Inquiry into 'torture' pictures

Military police were yesterday investigating the authenticity of a series of photographs purporting to show British soldiers torturing an Iraqi prisoner outside Basra, amid suspicions that the pictures could be an elaborate set-up.
Officers from the special investigations branch began interrogating soldiers from the Queen's Lancashire Regiment at their base in Cyprus to establish whether anyone had taken the pictures.

The images show an unidentified squaddie kicking, beating and urinating on a hooded prisoner in the back of a truck. They were said to have been taken during eight hours of mistreatment after the Iraqi was arrested for stealing in Basra last year. But military experts and sources close to the regiment believe the pictures are suspicious.

And an expert's analysis concluding that they are fakes (warning though, from a tabloid).....:
Framed: Brit soldiers 'torture' pics fake, say experts




seekerof

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Leveller
No way is that a dark green. The dark colours on the soldiers desert combat trousers and his webbing haven't come out white.

One other thing perturbs me. Why is this photo taken or processed in black and white? I hardly know anyone who takes black and white photos unless they are professional photographers.
British newspapers print in colour also so it can't be blamed on the transfer to print.

I OWN that shirt! I bought the same one when I was in Iraq. Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks like an exact replica of what I have, and that they sold everywhere. It looks like a picture taken with night vision. Ever wear night vision goggles? It looks the same way.

EDIT: I'm sorry. You cannot comment of colors in that picture. So, what colors are the soldiers uniform? Green? Desert? They wore both over there.

[Edited on 2-5-2004 by curme]

The British pics are fake due to the fact that the equipment shown was not in use in IRAQ. The US pics show interrogation practices, not physical torture. Humiliating and degrading, yes, that's the point. I would like to know the path that these pictures took to get onto the world scene. Would it be better if things like this did not happen, of course, this would be a better world if many things didn't happen.

I work with photoshop a lot and at least two of those photos are definately faked. The two with the woman pointing at the prisoners genitals. She just ain't there folks. Lighting is all wrong.

I have studied thousands of torture photos and one thing that these alleged Iraqi torture photos lack is the obvious bruises, lacerations, burns, swollen areas, cuts and broken bones.
It is my opinion that these photos don't even show Iraqis who are mostly dark skinned and very hairy.
These photos don't show the prisoners faces. WHY???? After all, isn't humiliation supposed to be the game here.
These pictures are posed for and are FAKE!!! I repeat FAKE!!!
They were made and released for the sole purpose of inflaming the Muslims.
The people who are behind this farce can then perpetrate a terrorist act and then blame it on the Muslims.
This will give them a reason to invade another Muslim country and start the killing anew.
Wake up people!! You are being had by the same people that brought you Oklahoma City, WTC on 9/11, Afghanistan and now Iraq.

[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Eljay]

[Edited on 7-5-2004 by Eljay]

Ok, I've edited out part of these photos so as not to offend anyone. However I must show some of the photo to get my point across.

Now, this may have nothing to do with any of the others but at least this photo looks fake to me. Or that something was added into it. Notice the Shadow around the goofy 'Thumbs up' person. It doesn't look right for a few reasons.

One, it is very sharp and very close to the body with no gradient at all.

Also it's perfectly uniform as it goes around the body. Another thing, is there is NO SHADOW around the 'Shoulder & Armpit Area' of the persons Left arm. The same with the Left Leg. Shouldn't there be a shadow against the persons body as well and not just 'behind' them.

Again, the 'shadow' that is behind them is supposed to be on the wall. However, they would practically have to be a cardboard cutout placed just inches from that wall to produce such a dark and sharp shadow such as that.

Unless of course someone simply Added that person in later and applied the typical Photoshop Type 'Drop Shadow' on that layer.

Notice the Shadow Lines which I've enlarged.



Again here is what I mean by a 'Drop Shadow'. Keep in mind that I did this in a few minutes and without trying to be convincing. With a little time and the right pictures to choose from, you could easily add in all kinds of things and make them look like they belong.



What do you people think? Do you see what I'm seeing here??

EDIT: BTW, for those who haven't seen the other photos. I added in everything to the left of that 'Censored' Box. Including the wall wich is behind that woman with the flashing shadow. The original photo is below to show where I cut her out of. You can see once again how quick and careless I was being too, by the fact that I even cut off the tip of her nose!! Imagine what is possible when you actually take your time!!



[Edited on 3-5-2004 by mOjOm]

[Edited on 3-5-2004 by mOjOm]

what's wrong with you guys? IF these pics are fake as some of you claim, do you not think that this Administration would be bending over backwards to prove them as being faked. People are going to be losing jobs and facing severe penalties for this, IF they were faked, don't you think the people in the pics would be saying so by now.

Stop making excuses for the barbaric way we act. It is real, these atrocities did really happen, forget the pics now and try to figure out a way we can prevent this from happening again and regain the trust of the iraqi people.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
what's wrong with you guys? IF these pics are fake as some of you claim, do you not think that this Administration would be bending over backward to prove them as being faked. People are going to be losing jobs and facing severe penalties for this, IF they were faked, don't you think the people in the pics would be saying so by now.

Stop making excuses for the barbaric way we act. It is real, these atrocities did really happen, forget the pics now and try to figure out a way we can prevent this from happening again and regain the trust of the Iraqi people.

Oh calm down for Christ sakes!!! I'm not making excuses for anything. Looking at a few of these photos, some of them just look edited, that's all. I'm simply looking at the evidence all by itself, without getting caught up in the events that they represent. Plus the little fact about this being a CONSPIRACY site, so we are supposed to keep an open mind and stuff and not just buy into what we're being told without at least exploring a few options.

Why would the current Administration Claim that these photos are genuine even if they weren't, you ask??
Well, obviously it this is a flimsy theory, but who knows, maybe it's because they are a bunch of criminals who are making a profit off of WAR, DEATH, ANGER & GENOCIDE!! It wouldn't be the first time it's happened ya know. The more of these pictures come out the more Angry the people of Iraq are going to get, which means more and more ENEMIES out there for us to have to go fight against. Perhaps, they needed to stir the coals a bit to get the fire going again, so that they could be sure there are plenty of Terrorists out there to Hunt Down and Cause more Fear in the Hearts of Americans. Ya can't bring about a NWO Police State without a good deal of Terrorist activity going on ya know.

Or it could all be totally what it seems and there are just a bunch of Crazy, Sick-o, Immature and Sinister #-for-Brains Soldiers in our Military. Personally, either theory seems very possible in my opinion!!

Just one more thing!! When you say, "Stop making excuses for the barbaric way we act.", who the HELL is We?? Don't include me in that group, in any way shape or form. I'm against WAR and MURDER in ALL it's forms. The fact that you call it Barbaric, makes me wonder how you label WAR when it's being waged under Normal conditions. Personally, I see the whole F'ckn thing as Barbaric and Disgusting, with or without inhumane treatment of POW's. I don't find their mistreatment or even standard warfare as something acceptable. IMO you'd have to be an idiot to view any war as something less than Barbaric Animal-like Activity in the first place. I mean what do you expect to happen to people who are spending all day, every day trying to kill each other?? Do you think anyone out there is actually in their right state of mind?? The phrase, "War is Hell", means just that, plain and simple. So anyone who favors Warfare as a way to solve problems is seeing full well what a dumb idea that is!!

Believe me WorldWatcher, I am not making excuses for any of the sick stuff that is happening, nor am I pleased about it any more than you are. I'm against all of it, in all it's forms. I'm not getting all emotional over it though either, since none of this comes as a shock to me personally. This kind of thing ALWAYS happens during WAR, and usually worse. That is why all such activities should be avoided in the first place.

Eljay: "Wake up people!! You are being had by the same people that brought you Oklahoma City, WTC on 9/11, Afghanistan and now Iraq. "

Yes, these were all brought to you thanks to the U.S. government, specifically their foreign policy over the last decade and a half. Well put.

mOjOm: I'm sure the U.S. administration ponied up TONS of money to check and triplecheck that these weren't fake. If they were they'd report it. They've got to be real.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Eljay: "Wake up people!! You are being had by the same people that brought you Oklahoma City, WTC on 9/11, Afghanistan and now Iraq. "

Yes, these were all brought to you thanks to the U.S. government, specifically their foreign policy over the last decade and a half. Well put.

mOjOm: I'm sure the U.S. administration ponied up TONS of money to check and triplecheck that these weren't fake. If they were they'd report it. They've got to be real.

I certainly have no problem with that idea. In fact, that is much more probable of being true then them being faked in fact. I'm just trying to keep an open mind ya know.

In fact, contrary to the opinions of many people, I'm not so sure that the U.S. Gov. didn't set these up themselves. All for the purpose of Encouraging More Terrorist Activity. I mean if they don't create enough Chaos and Fear and Anger within the lives of both the American People and the Iraqui People, this War might actually end before they're done with their Criminal Activities and Warmongering. They need more and more Chaos and War before they can Officially make their last move of 'Check Mate' against the rest of the World.

Originally posted by worldwatcher
what's wrong with you guys? IF these pics are fake as some of you claim, do you not think that this Administration would be bending over backwards to prove them as being faked. People are going to be losing jobs and facing severe penalties for this, IF they were faked, don't you think the people in the pics would be saying so by now.

Stop making excuses for the barbaric way we act. It is real, these atrocities did really happen, forget the pics now and try to figure out a way we can prevent this from happening again and regain the trust of the iraqi people.

You forget that..this is ATS. As a reporter for ATSNN, you should already know that some of this board is for conspiricies, thinking out of your typical box, etc. You do have a right to voice your opinion, but the way you did it seemed more of an attack on people voicing their own, and thus making your post a worthless piece of # that helps nobody.

With that said, I think some of those are fake. The first time I looked at them, the drop shadow definatly is off, the masks, and context that they are placed in, just doesn't seem right. As a somewhat decent user of photoshop, jasc psp, it is very easy nowadays to stick in people into photos, or stick in anything for that matter. If I could bring up those pictures again, I would show you that on some of them, the scaling of the soldiers to the picture around them are not the same. The lighting is also different as somebody already mentioned I think. This is the US government we are dealing with here..as this board already shows, theres a crapload of # we don't know, and of course there are conspiricies about it. How do we know the US governments intentions? People have already proposed theories as to why they may not be showing this is fake, just don't say 'what are you thinking and you barbarians' or whatever you posted.

as quoted by mOjOm
In fact, contrary to the opinions of many people, I'm not so sure that the U.S. Gov. didn't set these up themselves. All for the purpose of Encouraging More Terrorist Activity. I mean if they don't create enough Chaos and Fear and Anger within the lives of both the American People and the Iraqui People, this War might actually end before they're done with their Criminal Activities and Warmongering. They need more and more Chaos and War before they can Officially make their last move of 'Check Mate' against the rest of the World.

Righteous mOjOm!
You are giving or mentioning some ideas I have often thought about and even mentioned within another thread concerning WMD. What you mention, IMHO, seems very plausible but at a great cost....
Iraq Unloading WMD Into Syria.
See Post Number: 481473 (post id: 502167) or my 2nd response on this page and you'll see what I mean.

....How better to attract those terrorist groups and organization into a fairly centralized area for engagement (aka: Iraq)? You lure them there. How better to trace down those 'unaccounted for' WMD? You monitor and follow those terrorist groups and organizations into Iraq and where else they go while they are searching for those 'unaccounted for' WMD (aka: 'unaccounted for' WMD's are and is the "bait"). The US and coalition know, somewhat, where those WMD's are or were. For the sake of 'gathering' and attracting those terrorist groups and organization into Iraq, or a centralized engagement zone, the US and coalition do not reveal to the world that there is WMD or where they may be. Why? To 'lure' and engage those groups, and to also see where those groups will lead back to. If the US and coalition were to say "Yes, Iraq had them, here they are, etc." then this would defeat the purpose of drawing those terrorist groups and organizations into Iraq, into a central engagement zone, into their possible destructions, and would also defeat finding where their movements would lead back to....wouldn't it?

seekerof

I think it is ominous that the general formerly commanding Guantanamo Bay prison has now taken over command at Abu Ghraib.

This is an improvement?

ok so some way out conspiracy ideas.....

these photos are being used as ammunition by factions in the US military/intelligence community who previously were cohorts in the design and execution of 911, but are now warring against each other. Rumsfeld and Myers are being targeted in particular, so who would want to get rid of them? If they are gone, then who comes out on top?

these photos are being used to give our enemy some fundraising help, so they can get money from (Muslim or Arab?) sources to continue their war against us. Weapons and ammunition cost lots of money, and poor Iraqis are short of cash. Who is financing the Iraqis? If they run out of money, we run out of war. If we run out of war, we have no justification to stay longer. Also, our defense industry makes less profit.

these photos are being used to continue the dump Bush campaign started by former Bush backers (a la Mike Ruppert's theories ..see FTW website).

add your own ideas....