Eternal, Imortal, Perfect

I know my veiws on these words.

Eternal no begining, no end. Immortal, unable to be destroyed.
Perfection outside of the application when made to describe God, is relative.
Perfection is not absolute, a thing is perfect in relation to its purpose, as in what it was created for.

What do you think?

[edit on 24-5-2009 by Xcouncil=wisdom]

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom


One such thing that fits those three words: Uncertainty. It's found in everything from relationships to quarks and galactic superclusters.

In the old Testament there is a story about the army going out to battle and they were perfect in their unity. So there is something to be said here for a unity in purpose that we should have as believers.
The risen Jesus, as Son of God is called divine because of his perfection.
God is eternal, as fitting the given definition. Not much to say there because I imagine everyone would have to agree with that.
Jesus is not immortal because because he is eternal. That is if you were to call everything that he ever was and ever will be "Jesus", and not just talking about the human person Jesus. Obviously that person did not exist before he was born. What became Jesus is just as eternal as God since it was God. "It" is of course the wrong term because I am not talking about a thing, but an aspect of God that is so essential to how everything in the universe works that it has a self awareness and shares some attributes with those that would be considered part of being an individual person. That just described became an individual person when he became who we know as Jesus.
Adam had conditional immortality which means that under normal circumstances, he would never die. I do not think anyone has unconditional immortality, meaning they can live forever, no matter how evil they are.

They were not made immortal, however the possibility of not having to experience death was available to them. (Gen 3:22)

We have a different way of looking at the same thing. I would say that I am obstinate about it because of something that I was taught when I was young, that God did not make provision for what happens to man when he dies.
Somebody started a thread about what God was doing before He created the Earth. He quotes something from a hypothetical scenario that God was busy creating Hell. That's my motivation, that I do not believe that is true or could possibly be true. God did not plan for Adam to die, and I mean that concept of "planned" in more than one way. I find the thought of God setting up Adam to fail and that He had already developed plans on what to do with his soul, to be too distasteful to swallow. That does not make me want to join the atheists but it does affect some fundamentals of my own understanding of theology.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60


Well, I guess as long as the conversation begins with us agreeing to not agree!

I think I have seen you comenting on threads about predestination before right? And you are repulsed by the idea that God knew what was going to happen before he even created us?
My personal belief, if you are interested, is that he wants us to chose to serve him, just like he allows the angels to chose to serve him. Some angels stay in perfection, as in they do what they were created for(see how I'm stayin on topic I just gave myself cudos!) while others chose to dis-obey, and dissapoint the creator, thus becoming demons.
I agree that the thought of Adam being set up is not right. It could have gone another way, but God allowed us to make our own choices, he could see it failure was a potential outcome.
Oh, I have never before heard the term "conditional immortality " I was considering that term, and of course its legitimacy.
Damnit!
I started this thread as "here's my thoughts what yours" not, tell me what you think and I'll argue with ya.....I'll go check out that other thread....

reply to post by Xcouncil=wisdom

I think I have seen you comenting on threads about predestination before right? And you are repulsed by the idea that God knew what was going to happen before he even created us?

That is correct. It goes along with what I just said about becoming an atheist. Here is a continuation of the same theme, which is if God is all knowing, why did God go ahead and make the universe, knowing failure was inevitable? Isn't that cruel and does that make God evil?
My answer was that the universe does not work that way because there would be no such thing as free will.
Oh, that is a big thing in my church, conditional immortality. I am not an expert on it but I get the general principle.


[edit on 25-5-2009 by jmdewey60]

What is the teaching of conditional immortality?
Is it the promise of living forever as a reward?
I understand you are a student, as am I, of obviosly different schools of thought, but how does a term, like imortality, as in "free from threat of death" get a condition? Isn't the idea of immortalitly being free from threat of death, make it free from conditions.
That is why in this thread I listed "PERFECT"
If we were to have originally followed Gods rules we could have continued to live on forever.
But it really is to our benefit that we have been allowed to suffer, and fall short, so that once the kingdome....wait wait wait
I am not doing well with this not trying to push my own ideas..I see on the thead Debunking false claims, the conversation continues...I think I'll go to bed and check in tomorow, if I can tear myself away from this stupid box!

Peace jm

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Jesus is not immortal because because he is eternal. That is if you were to call everything that he ever was and ever will be "Jesus", and not just talking about the human person Jesus. Obviously that person did not exist before he was born. What became Jesus is just as eternal as God since it was God. "It" is of course the wrong term because I am not talking about a thing, but an aspect of God that is so essential to how everything in the universe works that it has a self awareness and shares some attributes with those that would be considered part of being an individual person. That just described became an individual person when he became who we know as Jesus.

not only are you agreeing with the trinity in several forms, but you are also agreeing with an apostate movement that john had to address in the first century.

2 john 1:[7] For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
[8] Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.

john was talking about what gnostics believe now, that jesus actually didnt come in the flesh. gnostics also believe that jesus remained spiritually elsewhere while appearing on earth.

why would john speak out against that do you think?

1 john 4:[2] Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
[3] And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
Oh, that is a big thing in my church, conditional immortality. I am not an expert on it but I get the general principle.

you probably read this before, but im stating it again for this thread.

conditional immortality is an oxymoron.

immortality is the inability to die. its exemption from death.

its not in any way shape or form conditional