Three of The Best UFO Trace Cases (New Bob White Evidence Included)

reply to post by theflashor




Thank you, that is my intent- to bring this info back up and include the newest findings (as I did with the White case)......There isn't anything new really and I feel we must focus on the older, more solid cases. I just hope more people see this (viewers essp.), I feel that if the evidence is presented to many then we might get somewhere. I know I sound redundant but I can't stress enough the need for this information to hit mainstream channels, and ATS is the best source I know of right now.

Originally posted by Xtraeme


Sadly statements we're getting from the USAF are likely completely honest.

That may be true. The USAF is "small potato's" in the scheme of things related to the government and UFO's.

The REAL muscle is the Navy. Regardless, the "truth" would only be found at levels above the Navy, or the AF. The "truth" would be held at a DoD level, with each branch of the military providing for various layers in the onion.

But, like i said, if you want to know which branch has the most knowledge/control, that would be the Navy.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Originally posted by Xtraeme


Sadly statements we're getting from the USAF are likely completely honest.

That may be true. The USAF is "small potato's" in the scheme of things related to the government and UFO's.

The REAL muscle is the Navy. Regardless, the "truth" would only be found at levels above the Navy, or the AF. The "truth" would be held at a DoD level, with each branch of the military providing for various layers in the onion.

But, like i said, if you want to know which branch has the most knowledge/control, that would be the Navy.

Very astute! Not many people are aware that the Office of Naval Research (ONR) was heavily involved in UFO studies.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Xtraeme]

Originally posted by Xtraeme


Very astute! Not many people are aware that the Office of Naval Research (ONR) was heavily involved in UFO studies.

Yeah, i think the AF was a diversion, honestly. It would seem logical that since UFO's are aerial events, that the USAF would spearhead the research. As well, Roswell was an Army endeavor in the days before the AF, but in an Army division that would one day we the AF.

Add to that the pop culture references, such as the USAF handling much of the Bluebook legwork, and the subsequent appearance of USAF personnel (or actors emulating USAF personnel) on shows such as "The Brady Bunch".

Look away from the diversion, however, and you are left with events such as USO's. Where are these USO's going? That is a question that only the Navy can answer.

Besides, there are cookie crumb trails that continuously lead back to the US Navy. The biggest smoking gun to me is the fact that the Navy even has any interest in space, and the simple link of the fact that the Navy has some of the most capable pilots in the armed forces. The Navy commands the seas and the air here on Earth. The two places you see UFO's/USO's.

reply to post by Xtraeme


Actually I think now it is DNR, or the Department of Naval Research.


I have always wondered why they appear to be a major player behind this phenomina. I mean USOs and all, why wouldn't the USAF be more in control?

I have to agree with BFFT(Bigfatfurrytexan,lol sorry I am lazy) about the multiple layers, the real players are deep within the DoD, it is as Branton puts it "The Octopus Enigma", referring to the multiple arms of this "onion". Ultimately no military agency controls it, it is a special appointed agency reportedly appointed by Truman in 47 or 49.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
Yeah, i think the AF was a diversion, honestly. It would seem logical that since UFO's are aerial events, that the USAF would spearhead the research. As well, Roswell was an Army endeavor in the days before the AF, but in an Army division that would one day we the AF.

Add to that the pop culture references, such as the USAF handling much of the Bluebook legwork, and the subsequent appearance of USAF personnel (or actors emulating USAF personnel) on shows such as "The Brady Bunch".

You're not alone in this thinking. The CIA released a document titled 'Studies in Intelligence' in '97. On page 9 was this,

The early U-2s were silver (they were later painted black) & reflected the rays from the sun, especially at sunrise and sunset. They often appeared as fiery objects to observers below. Air Force BLUE BOOK investigators aware of the secret U-2 flights tried to explain away such sightings by linking them to natural phenomena such as ice crystals and temperature inversions.

If that doesn't scream PR cover (i.e. psychological warfare / counter-intel) what does?

Look away from the diversion, however, and you are left with events such as USO's. Where are these USO's going? That is a question that only the Navy can answer.

Besides, there are cookie crumb trails that continuously lead back to the US Navy. The biggest smoking gun to me is the fact that the Navy even has any interest in space, and the simple link of the fact that the Navy has some of the most capable pilots in the armed forces. The Navy commands the seas and the air here on Earth. The two places you see UFO's/USO's.

I wonder how many people realize that the Navy was tasked with "design[ing], manufactur[ing], integrati[ng], and ... execut[ing]" the Clementine, or Deep Space Program Science Experiment (DSPSE) project? (source)

[edit on 8-5-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by Xtraeme


I am still wondering why the Navy is in charge. Could it be because they consider space more of a naval ground rather than an air realm? Is it because the experience the Navy has with large craft (battleships, cruisers)? I was always perplexed by this. In the alien interview film it even has "DNR/27" on the film, I think the real goal is finding out why the Navy is in control.

Originally posted by jkrog08
reply to post by Xtraeme

 

I am still wondering why the Navy is in charge. Could it be because they consider space more of a naval ground rather than an air realm? Is it because the experience the Navy has with large craft (battleships, cruisers)? I was always perplexed by this. In the alien interview film it even has "DNR/27" on the film, I think the real goal is finding out why the Navy is in control.

I think the answer to that is legacy. In the 40's there was the Navy and the Army. The USAF materialized in 1947 as an offshoot from the Army Air Corps.

Alright guys, here are the Los Alamos results, so gratiously provided by Larry C. He's lurking around this thread somewhere, I think I know where too...
Anyway, sorry about the multitude of images, but I didn't want to just post a link =/

reply to post by Xtraeme


well, that is an interesting question. Zorgon and other Pegasus members have been pointing to this for a few years here at ATS. But people tend to ignore useful facts in favor of the "FLASHBANG" of a catchy thread title.

But that is the whole point. The US Navy spearheaded Clementine (with logistical support from NASA), but why? What purpose do they have with space exploration?

But, like i said, it is perfectly logical when you look at the whole picture. The Navy controls the SeaLaunch vehicles. The Navy has access to submerged areas. The Navy has highly skilled pilots. The Navy also seems to have spearheaded Operation Highjump.

The Air Force is just a diversion. Just like NASA (which the DoD has painstakingly tried to tie to the AF for years, with stunts like the Air Force's "Space Command" team, now defunct, that was located in Colorado).

Edit to add:

Consider the listing here:

www.history.navy.mil...

And this is just what is public, you know?

Add to this the often discussed "Philadelphia Experiment".

For those who are interested, a good start would be to just Google "Navy Space" and start going through the links.

[edit on 8-5-2009 by bigfatfurrytexan]

reply to post by Mr Headshot



Thanks for posting that, maybe "Larry C" can provide some insight to these. I like the part where the results said it was similar to aircraft alloy. Also the part about the spray of a substance over the material, that coincides with the superconductor theory and the spraying of silver over the metal. Those are a great addition, I will research the findings and see what I can come with. Again thanks!


[edit on 5/9/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by jkrog08


Jkrog08-thanks for the reply,this is a great thread with some very interesting posts
Heres a strange physical trace UFO incident from Tuscumbia, Missouri in 1967:

On the morning of February 14, 1967,farmer Claude Edwards
left his house at 7:00 a.m., four minutes before sunrise.
The area was already brightly illuminated as it was a clear, crisp day. As he walked down the long, rocky slope toward a large barn he had walked 258 feet of the 310 feet between the house and barn. It was at this point he noticed all the cattle looking out into the east field. Through scattered trees to his left he saw a gray-green object “like a giant mushroom” in the field in front of the barn.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/527db388b5f5.jpg[/atsimg]

When he reached the barn he placed a feed bucket he was carrying in side the barn and latched the door. As he turned to look again at the device he could see several small figures moving rapidly under the object.
He had a clear unobstructed view and could see it was resting on the ground 70 feet away. The object was resting on a gray-green circular shaft which extended from the bottom center. Between he and the object were scattered cows and two fences.
He climbed over the first gate and as he reached the second gate the small figures started moving around behind the central shaft.

Sketch drawn by farmer Claude Edwards:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3aa21b5ea58f.jpg[/atsimg]

In full sunlight Claude reached at point 15 feet from the device and was stopped by an unseen force which seemed to extend around the object. He couldn’t feel it or see it, “it was just a pressure.”
He backed up about 10 feet and tossed a rock at it, the rock hit something at the 15 ft point and bounced back into the field with no sound. Determined, he threw the second rock toward the area above the device. The rock skipped as if on water, with no sound, into the field beyond the object.
Claude was a bit upset but had to stand there 15 feet away watching it. The surface was seamless, “like gray-green silk.”
Around the lower rim there were evenly spaced oval openings.
They were 12 inches long and 12 inches apart. They were displaying brilliant colors from inside each opening. The colors changed rapidly “as if a color wheel was turning inside the thing.”
The central shaft was the same color as the body of the object, tubular in shape, extending from the underneath section and positioned in the center of the circular base. There was no sound during the entire observation. The object had a diameter of 18 feet and was 8 feet thick, the central shaft was 3 feet in diameter and 3 feet tall.

As he watched the object for several minutes it suddenly and silently rocked back toward him slightly three times. On the third time it lifted quickly off the ground. The central shaft was seen going into the base until it was flush and invisible to the eye. The object gained speed rapidly, leveled off and flew toward St. Elizabeth to the northeast, disappearing quickly into the distance.

When I arrived at the site the traces were still quite visible. It was one meter in diameter in a slightly irregular circle where the shaft had rested. The soil was extremely dehydrated in contrast with the surrounding soil. There was an imprint 100 mm x 65 mm. The imprint extended vertically downward to a depth of 100 mm with an extension 25 mm long the depth of the imprint shaft.

Trace area dehydrated and shaft hole:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/893e8119d555.jpg[/atsimg]

ufophysical.com...

UFO Wave-1967:
www.nicap.org...
Cheers.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by karl 12


Thanks for that info, I didn't know about that one. The force field around it is really interesting, although I wonder why it landed in the first place? Mechanical problems? Great addition

reply to post by jkrog08


Great work, jkrog08!

First of all, let me say that I think the US Navy was one of the first organisations to make rocket tests, so maybe they had (or still have) some expertise that they do not want to let go.

Now, about these cases, the Bob White Object case is interesting but there is something (I don't know what) that makes me think that there is something more than what Bob White tells us, and many of the things said about the object are presented in a way to make us follow their own conclusions, like the problem with the safe; if the object discharges batteries near it it would be extremely easy to repeat the experiment, why there is only that report about the safe not working?

And why wasn't there any Silver in the Mass Spectrometry test bu now there is 4.3%?

Although interesting, I think this case is the most likely to be fake, or maybe it started out as a true case but was considered that it should be made more "interesting" than it originally was.


The Falcon Lake Encounter is also very interesting, but it also has some unexplained things, like why the burns look like they were made in contact with him while, judging by the description and drawing, in what position was he to be burnt like that, bent backwards? And if the shirt was burning, shouldn't he have more burn marks?

Also, the UFO Casebook says "After being refused help from a passing police officer", what I find strange, while the Library and Archives Canada says that "Michalak refused medical treatment from the officer at the time, but later went back to the RCMP detachment office and asked for a doctor."

And this points to one of the biggest problems with Ufology, it looks like most people involved change the story a little, so we cannot know what is true and what is not.

PS: the Library and Archives Canada looks very interesting, I was not aware of their "Canada's UFOs: The Search for the Unknown" topic.
The links at the bottom of the page show the original documents, like the interview he gave.


The Socorro UFO Landing is the one I think is the strongest, with what we can call a trained witness and no clear reason for a hoax.


The Golabki, Poland case is another case where it looks like someone is trying to lead us to a conclusion, and I hate that, it makes me think that someone is trying to gain something with the case, regardless of the case being true or not.

Although strange and with no apparent reason for a hoax, there is also no explanation to the melted ground blocks that were apparently put there and not created on the spot, as it should be if they were the result of the presence of the UFO. Maybe the UFO dropped them, but why?


Before someone asks, I don't have any explanation for any of the cases.


Thanks errorist for the UFO hunters episode, we do not get that here in Portugal.

reply to post by ArMaP


Thanks for dropping by Armap!

Your inputs are always appreciated.

You about summed it up when you said that all the cases are still unknown. I too think the Socorro case is very strong, considering the witness, the Bluebook staff remarks, and the evidence surrounding the range log. As far as the Bob White artifact goes, like I said I admit his actions are questionable but more research into the artifact needs to be done. He claims that the lab results from over half the labs that tested it were false and disinformation. This case and the Falcon Lake case might be real cases, but (like you said) subject to some attempts at profit or fame, and thus exaggerated. At the least the questionable actions lead us (researchers) into the very debate we are having now, questioning peripheral actions surrounding the case.

But then again one must take into account on the utter shock someone like Michalak would be in after not only seeing, but being severely injured by a UFO. So some of his odd actions can be looked at in a psychological aspect, as can Bob Whites. We have in him someone that apparently truly saw something (as indicated by the polygraph) and believes that a disinfo campaign is being lead against him, not to mention the fact he now is known as one of "those crazy UFO people". Some people respond to suppression(as in the reported truth of this artifact being hidden) by anger, as is the case I think, with White.

That is a good question about the silver, I will look into it and get back to you. But I agree with you that all these cases, especially the White case are unknown and thus require more research.

reply to post by jkrog08


there are also literally THOUSANDS of stories that are never really told. They don't get advertised or they are just never shared for fear of marginlization.

While in high school a good friend of mine had a UFO story. Before i tell what he told me, i want to share background on them.

He, at that time, was a youth minister. Since then, he has gone to a Baptist university and is a Baptist minister. He was a very honest, very friendly guy.

His mother, who was with him, is a teacher. She has taught special ed for 30 years.

His grandmother, who with with him, is a local busines owner (she owns the only "upscale" restaurant in our town).

I find all three to be incredibly credible. It is underscored by the fact that the grandmother doesn't talk about it and honestly was very spooked.

The story:

It was somewhat late at night on a Wednesday. They had been attending evening church services ("mid-week" school) and were driving home. It was winter, and around 8pm (so it was dark).

They had just dropped off a young friend and were driving back towards town (we lived in a very rural area in West Texas). ABout 5 miles outside of Big Spring the event occured. They see a strange group of lights approach from the north, flying low. When it gets about 500 yds from them the car dies. It took about 3 or 4 minutes for the object to float by. It took several more minutes before they could get the car started. This was back before cell phones, so it could have been difficult for them had the car not started.

I asked him what the object looked like, he said is was disk shaped, and about 300-400 ft across. He said that it was about 200 ft above the ground and flew silently.

This happened in 1991.

reply to post by jkrog08


I have been reading the documents on the Library and Archives Canada site, and they are very interesting, specially the RCMP report of August 10, 1967, where they talk about a Gerald A. V. Hart that appeared from nowhere, talked with Michalak on the phone and convinced Michalak to go with him to the site of the landing. After this Michalak stopped cooperating with the authorities and refused to take them to the landing site.

It was on this trip with Hart that he allegedly recovered the burnt shirt, the tape and some soil samples that were tested positive for radioactivity, while there was no report of radioactivity before in Michalak's clothes or body.

Very interesting read, I am still reading it but I thought I should point that this case may have a third party involved, in the person of Gerald A. V. Hart.

I saw this show, and it proves and or explains nothing as usual.

Only that they managed to find a few believers that happen to have experience in the Scientific field, and who probably have the same credibility as a Paranormal Investigator...

No one will take them or this object seriously, and simply take this as a fabrication... An elaborate scheme to base more of this UFO interest around...

Unfortunately you still need "Smoking Gun" evidence, and not 1 guy, finding 1 object and being the only witness to his fantastic story.

Just not going to float...

Has anyone ever heard of a Prop, or a Movie?

Until we are either Attacked or Contacted there just isn't any valid concrete proof that we are not alone in our part of this Universe...

reply to post by ArMaP


Thanks I'll check it out, I have been busy doing some research for something else recently, but I'll take a look at it today.

[edit on 5/9/2009 by jkrog08]

reply to post by Brainiac


Bob White had a witness, his lady friend who saw this all with him. But you are right about still lacking the smoking gun, although I thik the White case has some real good potential.