Guns are Evil lets ban them all!

I grew up in the country, my closest neighbor was five miles away. My dad did not allow my sister to get out and about without her AK-47. She was highly trained in its safe and effective operation.

He chose the AK-47 for its deterrent properties. Everyone around there knew she was armed, and that she could plug a nickel at 100 yards. It was also a very rugged weapon that could take the constant abuse. Did this make him a bad parent?

Please don’t give your kid a gun just because you read this post!!!
Had my sister not shown complete competence for many many years she would never be allowed out of my dad’s sight with a high powered rifle.

I had my first gun at the age of 8 a semi auto 22, and I got a break over 12 gauge two years later. When I was older I got a gun “I got to choose, if not too expensive” for birthdays and Christmases. Needless to say I wound up with a pretty nice collection.

I really would like to understand the gun control mindset, and thats why I am posting. To me it just makes no sense whatsoever. Can some of you explain? I am all about saving lives, but I would think guns save more lives than they take.

Please do provide your feedback. I would really like to hear from those that advocate further gun control legislation.

Here are some interesting Gun facts. Gun Facts



[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

It is a very simple concept: More responsible people with guns equals less crime. Proven time and time again. I have a 12 gauge and a 30-06, anyone who comes into my home is getting a face full of buckshot. I live in a "redneck" area of Missouri, there is little crime here, if at all.

There's no effin skill involved in killing someone with a gun, a child can kill a man with a gun, at least when war and fighting meant something there was some skill involved, nowadays none, just point and shoot. Guns are only around because they make weak people feel strong, makes them equal to someone else, that's why rednecks love guns, cause they know just how defenceless they really are.

Originally posted by Aztec Riddle
There's no effin skill involved in killing someone with a gun, a child can kill a man with a gun, at least when war and fighting meant something there was some skill involved, nowadays none, just point and shoot. Guns are only around because they make weak people feel strong, makes them equal to someone else, that's why rednecks love guns, cause they know just how defenceless they really are.

Yeah well we are not killers!! There are plenty of those though. Should we not be evenly matched?

reply to post by Donkey_Dean


Yep, we Americans are strange bunch, we allow our 11 years old children to handle guns, we send our 18 years old sons and daughters into war but yet we do not let them drink alcohol before they are 21...

So, what exactly makes 11 years old kid "mature" enough to be able to handle deadly weapon ? What kind of logic stands behind it ?

Nobody ever takes it seriously enough till someone in their family dies or kills someone else, then is too late

Originally posted by 5thElement
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Yep, we Americans are strange bunch, we allow our 11 years old children to handle guns, we send our 18 years old sons and daughters into war but yet we do not let them drink alcohol before they are 21...

So, what exactly makes 11 years old kid "mature" enough to be able to handle deadly weapon ? What kind of logic stands behind it ?

Nobody ever takes it seriously enough till someone in their family dies or kills someone else, then is too late

There seemed to be fewer accident and shootings back then. It wasn’t until all the gun hype that things really started heading down hill. Making guns seem illicit didn’t help a thing, but rather made things worse.



[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

reply to post by Donkey_Dean



I think allot of the problems people have with guns might boil down to the sole purpose of the device. I have hard a few gun discussions here and more than once folks have said
"guns are NOT for killing or hurting"... anyhow that is clearly a logical fallacy if I have ever heard one, in fact that attitude really pisses me off because it is so far from the truth. I mean you sure as hell can open a can with one, but I think we all know the truth.

Anyhow my views on the gun issue have changed allot due to many of the PRO GUN ATSers. Aside from the BS above, I have heard many logical pro gun line of thought, backed up with logic which I appreciate

THE BEST GUN ARGUMENT - the one that sold me

Law abiding citizens are not the ones committing crimes
criminals are and if they are criminals,,, it it is obvious they are not in adherence with the law anyhow... SO laws would not halt criminals...

GREAT argument for me - very solid...( very badly paraphrased on my behalf )

That being said I believe the pro gun crowd can be very stubborn and paranoid.
What I mean is there seems to be no discussion, trying to understand and closed ears in regards to inner city crime, which is the ultimate ANTI GUNNER motivation.

In all seriousness I have nearly been shot three times - once being shot at via a gangbanger.

Another time a nutty "citizen" was convinced I was going to "burn down my former elementary school". The fellow held a snub nose on me ( I was 15) and repeatedly said "I'm gonna kill you, I gonna bury here, I know you did it..."

??????????????

It took me 10 minutes to explain myself, the prick was shaking and seemed to be disappointed that he had lost reason to kill me.

Third time a dumb butt high school friend stole a hair trigger 45 from his neighbor unbeknownst to me and put it my girlfriends face while she was sitting in my lap. He was waving inches from here face in front of mine - "joking", "its not loaded",

however I took the gun away from him and found 1 in the chamber.

SOOOOO

I had my life on the line three times being completely innocent, two of the times being on the receiving end of presumably legal weapons...

Hers my point, I have known quite a few victims (RIP) and survivors who were shot
also being innocent. I DON'T WANT idiots IN MY CITY with things that are made to kill.
But,,, I do understand the important role fire arms play in rural america + the 2nd amendment, protection etc...

All I ask for is the same understanding that I have shown in my response from PRO GUNNERS. I ask that you guys meet me half way... Unfortunately I rarely see any measured and thoughtful attempts to address or even discuss URBAN GUN ISSUES.

Three times I have been very near death, yet I still am open minded and willing to cross the line in sand on behalf of the PRO CROWD.

Trying to too address issues that Anti Gunners have, IS NOT AN attempt to take away your GUNS, it is a reasonable response to circumstance . It infuriates me that there is a knee jerk force that cries

" THEY ARE TAKING AWAY YOUR GUNS"

NO!!!

We are trying to FIGURE OUT a way to stop the madness HERE in other parts of America. Even if it is futile, stating that "GUNS are not intended to kill" is not a good way to further discussion or solve problems. That just makes people very angry and makes the REAL concerns of folks seem trivial and unimportant. Rural areas do not have the same problems urban areas have, a little sugar would go a long way in this case.

GET it???


[edit on 12-4-2009 by The Bald Champion]

Originally posted by The Bald Champion


We are trying to FIGURE OUT a way to stop the madness HERE in other parts of America. Even if it is futile, stating that "GUNS are not intended to kill" is not a good way to further discussion or solve problems. That just makes people very angry and makes the REAL concerns of folks seem trivial and unimportant. Rural areas do not have the same problems urban areas have, a little sugar would go a long way in this case.

GET it???

Maybe a federal approach is not appropriate, but rather let individual municipalities pass their own legislation. There will always be killers amongst us, more are born every day. If a particular municipality is particularly prone to gun violence then do something about it. One cities problem should not affect everyone. Like I said we have no crime out here, but I am still concerned with the possibilities of kidnapping home invasions etc. I do require the right to defend myself.

They will only create more deaths. If they take them away.

"From my cold dead hands."

Originally posted by 5thElement
reply to post by Donkey_Dean

 

Yep, we Americans are strange bunch, we allow our 11 years old children to handle guns, we send our 18 years old sons and daughters into war but yet we do not let them drink alcohol before they are 21...

So, what exactly makes 11 years old kid "mature" enough to be able to handle deadly weapon ? What kind of logic stands behind it ?

Nobody ever takes it seriously enough till someone in their family dies or kills someone else, then is too late

You are much more likely to lose a loved one in a car accident. Half the households in America have guns, the accident rate is miniscule compared to the number of weapons out there.

I will be much more concerned when my kids start driving, than i would be if they are out hunting.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by GOTZEUS
They will only create more deaths. If they take them away.

"From my cold dead hands."

Only true if there were SOME guns left...

HAVE you ever had a knife fight???

You have to have lots of motive and NUTS to hack someone up feet away...

BTW that vid disgusts me, there no measure to it

You have a here and you bring it there's a body - no gun - likely no body

I'm sure you don't care - why I care for your stance is beyond me sometimes, certainly you could give half a sheet about my concerns...

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

Originally posted by GOTZEUS
They will only create more deaths. If they take them away.

"From my cold dead hands."

Only true if there were SOME guns left...

HAVE you ever had a knife fight???

You have to have lots of motive and NUTS to hack someone up feet away...

BTW that vid disgusts me, there no measure to it

You have a here and you bring it there's a body - no gun - likely no body

I'm sure you don't care - why I care for your stance is beyond me sometimes, certainly you could give half a sheet about my concerns...

It is physically impossible to get every gun.

The bird is out of the bag my friend, like it not there is no going back. A gun can be manufactured from materials readily available for just a few dollars. Look on youtube for homemade guns?

74% of felons polled agreed that "one reason burglars avoid houses when people are at home is that they fear being shot during the crime."

57% of felons polled agreed that "criminals are more worried about meeting an armed victim than they are about running into the police."

3/5 of felons polled agreed that "a criminal is not going to mess around with a victim he knows is armed with a gun."

* Nationwide. In 1979, the Carter Justice Department found that of more than 32,000 attempted rapes, 32% were actually committed. But when a woman was armed with a gun or knife, only 3% of the attempted rapes were actually successful.

* Orlando, FL. In 1966-67, the media highly publicized a safety course which taught Orlando women how to use guns. The result: Orlando's rape rate dropped 88% in 1967, whereas the rape rate remained constant in the rest of Florida and the nation.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by The Bald Champion


We are trying to FIGURE OUT a way to stop the madness HERE in other parts of America. Even if it is futile, stating that "GUNS are not intended to kill" is not a good way to further discussion or solve problems. That just makes people very angry and makes the REAL concerns of folks seem trivial and unimportant. Rural areas do not have the same problems urban areas have, a little sugar would go a long way in this case.

GET it???

Maybe a federal approach is not appropriate, but rather let individual municipalities pass their own legislation. There will always be killers amongst us, more are born every day. If a particular municipality is particularly prone to gun violence then do something about it. One cities problem should not affect everyone. Like I said we have no crime out here, but I am still concerned with the possibilities of kidnapping home invasions etc. I do require the right to defend myself.

You do...

Look man I'm a big city liberal, my city has the POPULATION of several states, you stated "one cities problem should not effect everyone"... SAME COULD GO FOR YOU... ever thought of that?

ONE rural folks POSSIBLE problem should not effect the safety of 7 million in this city.

Your perceived problem ( valid in my view ) has NOT occurred - but my city has probably had ten armed robberies since I first posted... How many home invasions have you experienced in that time???? Kidnappings??? ever???

Does not make you feel good does it???

That one line you threw out there SOUNDED like "oh well, tough crap, your problem is trivial"...

Remember, you respect the reason of the concern and you debate will not stall,
however make others feel like above and .......

Originally posted by The Bald Champion


You do...

Look man I'm a big city liberal, my city has the POPULATION of several states, you stated "one cities problem should not effect everyone"... SAME COULD GO FOR YOU... ever thought of that?

ONE rural folks POSSIBLE problem should not effect the safety of 7 million in this city.

Your perceived problem ( valid in my view ) has NOT occurred - but my city has probably had ten armed robberies since I first posted... How many home invasions have you experienced in that time???? Kidnappings??? ever???

Does not make you feel good does it???

That one line you threw out there SOUNDED like "oh well, tough crap, your problem is trivial"...

Remember, you respect the reason of the concern and you debate will not stall,
however make others feel like above and .......

The bird is out of the bag my friend, like it not there is no going back. A gun can be manufactured from materials readily available for just a few dollars. Look on youtube for homemade guns?

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

Originally posted by GOTZEUS
They will only create more deaths. If they take them away.

"From my cold dead hands."

Only true if there were SOME guns left...

HAVE you ever had a knife fight???

You have to have lots of motive and NUTS to hack someone up feet away...

BTW that vid disgusts me, there no measure to it

You have a here and you bring it there's a body - no gun - likely no body

I'm sure you don't care - why I care for your stance is beyond me sometimes, certainly you could give half a sheet about my concerns...

It is physically impossible to get every gun. A gun can be manufactured from materials readily available for just a few dollars. Look on youtube for homemade guns? Take the guns away and you really will put law abiding citizens at a disadvantage. Like it or not we do have the right to self defense, and guns are a type of mitigation that both ease our minds and protect us from the nut jobs in this world. If you are trusting enough not to be armed that’s your business, but in my book it’s a bad idea

Sir, in two of the situations I stated above, if I had a gun I would be dead... The fact that I was unarmed saved my life.

The gangbanger would have hunted me down with a pack shot me and hacked me, the
other nutsack would have shot me with the snub nose.

I might regret not having a gun one day, who knows, but I have not regret as of yet. Like I said, in all reality a gun in those two instances would have likely ended up in my demise. I have run through both instances and I hold firm. Have your guns, enjoy them, I prefer a screwdriver

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by The Bald Champion


You do...

Look man I'm a big city liberal, my city has the POPULATION of several states, you stated "one cities problem should not effect everyone"... SAME COULD GO FOR YOU... ever thought of that?

ONE rural folks POSSIBLE problem should not effect the safety of 7 million in this city.

Your perceived problem ( valid in my view ) has NOT occurred - but my city has probably had ten armed robberies since I first posted... How many home invasions have you experienced in that time???? Kidnappings??? ever???

Does not make you feel good does it???

That one line you threw out there SOUNDED like "oh well, tough crap, your problem is trivial"...

Remember, you respect the reason of the concern and you debate will not stall,
however make others feel like above and .......

The bird is out of the bag my friend, like it not there is no going back. A gun can be manufactured from materials readily available for just a few dollars. Look on youtube for homemade guns?

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

I understand...

I was trying to give you a different perspective, which you asked for.

What are you trying to get out of this thread?

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

Sir, in two of the situations I stated above, if I had a gun I would be dead... The fact that I was unarmed saved my life.

The gangbanger would have hunted me down with a pack shot me and hacked me, the
other nutsack would have shot me with the snub nose.

I might regret not having a gun one day, who knows, but I have not regret as of yet. Like I said, in all reality a gun in those two instances would have likely ended up in my demise. I have run through both instances and I hold firm. Have your guns, enjoy them, I prefer a screwdriver

See below please

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

I understand...

I was trying to give you a different perspective, which you asked for.

What are you trying to get out of this thread?

I just want to understand the anti gun mentality. It seems ignorant to me, if your in a violent place not to protect yourself and your loved ones in all the ways you possibly can. You have this one life, and thats it really. Like you said, if you took the guns then only the nut jobs would have them!!! WTF??

It seems your saying you already have given yourself to the power that rules your fate, and you have no fear. Thats a view I cannot square with. Carry a screwdriver, but I will keep my assault rifles so long as any nut job out there has one too.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

Originally posted by Donkey_Dean

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

I understand...

I was trying to give you a different perspective, which you asked for.

What are you trying to get out of this thread?

I just want to understand the anti gun mentality. It seems ignorant to me, if your in a violent place not to protect yourself and your loved ones in all the ways you possibly can. You have this one life, and thats it really. Like you said, if you took the guns then only the nut jobs would have them!!! WTF??

It seems your saying you already have given yourself to the power that rules your fate, and you have no fear. Thats a view I cannot square with. Carry a screwdriver, but I will keep my assault rifles so long as any nut job out there has one too.

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

[edit on 12-4-2009 by Donkey_Dean]

I'm more afraid of a car wreck as you said... Have your weapons man, I have no problem with that, I hope you can at see that in my experience two guns in the situations I cited would have not provided for a good outcome. Maybe you can see that is some cases two guns puts the situation "over the top" ( purely from a person to person angle, might help you in the future )

As it is I lost nothing from either experience, no money, nothing.

Do you fear the unknown??? or maybe fear being ill prepared?

truth be told if we could assure only law abiding citizens could have fire arms we could be on our way, right???

its too bad...





[edit on 12-4-2009 by The Bald Champion]

Originally posted by The Bald Champion

I'm more afraid of a car wreck as you said... Have your weapons man, I have no problem with that, I hope you can at see that in my experience two guns in the situations I cited would have not provided for a good outcome. Maybe you can see that is some cases two guns puts the situation "over the top" ( purely from a person to person angle, might help you in the future )

As it is I lost nothing from either experience, no money, nothing.

Do you fear the unknown??? or maybe fear being ill prepared?

truth be told if we could assure only law abiding citizens could have fire arms we could be on our way, right???

its to bad...

Yes it is too bad. God bless and keep you safe.