Finally hitting middle America

reply to post by SGTChas

Perhaps then you will recognize your errors of logic and remember what it really means to be American

I'm the one with errors in logic?

Your entire post was a complete contradiction.

You fight for my right to not agree with your stance on assault weapons, but i should agree with your stance on assault weapons, because you were stationed in Ft. Brag for 4 years?

If you served, good for you. I have no animosity towards men and women in uniform.
But i do have animosity towards men and women either currently in, or once was, in uniform who tell me that i am required to show you respect because you were in the military.

Respect isnt required. It's earned.
Simply belonging to the military does not make you respectable.

You are not above me because you wore a helmet and some camo.
If you want to fight for my rights fine. Thanks. But remember, i did not ask you to. So don't come and try to rub it in my face.

THAT is what being an American is about.

[edit on 1-4-2009 by Fremd]

reply to post by Fremd


I never asked for, nor expected your respect. You do not know me, nor I you. However, when spouting a totally incorrect understanding of the Constitution, I might ask a better grasp of the topic. More respect for the opinions of the men who WROTE and bled for the documents you so casually rewrite according to your politically correct views might be nice however.

Further, I served from Nov 75 until March 21 1986 at 0330 hrs when my rather brilliant military career was ended abruptly with 29 pieces of Russian shrapnel and the resulting stay in Walter Reed. Which I do not expect one who has such obvious deficiencies in knowledge of what has made America the nation that it is, to value. Not with standing the fact that I care not a wit whether you respect me or not.


[edit on 4/1/2009 by SGTChas]

reply to post by SGTChas


Sarge, I wouldn't waste much more time on this.

Besides, we have the comfort of knowing in a real SHTF situation, that some, and I'll not mention any names (as to do so would be a clear violation of the T&C,) will be dropping faster than burdcrap in a downdraft.

It's not what a person doesn't know. It's those things they know that just aren't true.

And in line with the original topic, there are more and more folks each and every day realizing that.

For many, too late.

reply to post by dooper


No fellow Patriot, never a waste of time; indeed, my prayer is for those that reread our exchanges and reevaluate the parasitic opinions and sleep inducing myopic blinders of the ‘Newspeak’ media mantras they have repeated too long without thought. I can do no less; too many of my friends and the young men I trained left their blood and poured out their lives for the documents that the ill informed so casually attempt to remake into the politically correct shells the media promotes as ‘living’ malleable limits on the people; damnable treason.

Forgive my overly emotional response, but the most “beautifully crafted document from the minds of men” is the passion of my Virginian heart, as I am sure it is also for most ATS contributors. In the discussion of its enumeration of our God given rights, I hope to ignite a passion in the hearts of those of who of recent it has not been; that they too may stand up with us to defend it in this critical hour, as governmental fascist attempt to put out the light of liberty forever.

Originally posted by SGTChas
reply to post by dooper

 

No fellow Patriot, never a waste of time; indeed,

says the guy still in here blabbing away.

You said you fight for our freedom
but then get angry and immaturely upset when someone chooses to exercise that freedom.

the fact that you tell me im illogical and unamerican is nothing more than a contradiction on your part.

If you dont like the freedom i have to not respect those who have not earned it, fine. Don't fight for them for me. I never asked you to.

Please Stay On Topic

Personal bickering is not on-topic and is disruptive to discussion.

Our topic: Finally hitting middle America

Let's just stick with that.

Thanks.

I'm sure you could map ammo shortages by plotting the number of backwards hicks near each Walmart.

So this is more about people buying up ammo and there being a shortage than any government interrupting or disrupting the supply?

That seemed obvious considering the noise made about Obama introducing gun control laws.

People are just buying up while they have the opportunity because they fear Obama will clamp down on gun ownership and ammo.

And every time there's another killing spree it makes people jump thinking that Obama is about to make a dramatic statement.

Again, no conspiracy or government being a bad guy here, it's simply people panic buying.

Originally posted by on_yur_6
Just remember the so called civil world we live in at this time is just an experiment. At any time a dictator can rise up and will attempt to control those that can't protect themselves. This has happenned many time in the last 60 years. What makes you think it will never happen in the USA?

Interesting - you proclaim America as a free country but are so scared of the government you think you need weapons to protect yourself from it. I'm glad I live in a country with a democratic government which isn't feared by the people. America the freeist country in the world LMAO - you don't act like it is.
This country is already a police state from what I ahve seen how the police and judges sentence people for the slightest infractions.

reply to post by detachedindividual


Well it's documented that 7.62 is being bought in massive quantities for the afghan army by the US military. The price has skyrocketed and has been difficult to get for a long time, even before the election. Thank god for wolf. What little the american manufacturers produce is an absurd price.

reply to post by CapsFan8


Most the US made 7.62x39 and the 223/5.56 is of a higher quality than the steel cased stuff that comes out of Russia and the like. Get a good AR or AK and try a target over 200 yards. You will see a difference. That Wolf ammo is OK It will work for what many people buy it for. But you wont see any competing rifle shooters with it in their weapons. It takes more than a good rifle ot make the good shot. Ever watch how US sniper ammo is made? Each slug is weighed. So are the cases. Each round is made form a specific rifle. If there are ten snipers training you have people making loads for ten different ways. They know what each rifle needs to perform at it's best.

A lot of American ammo is made to stricter tolerances that ammo like Wolf will be. But stuff like Wolf, Sellier & Bellot are clunked out as fast as possible to be sent to people using weapons that spray ammo pretty quick.
(Back to topic)
I was talking to a guy that is a distributor for a few companies ammo and he was telling me that a lot of the imports like Wolf, Sellier and Bellot, and Tiger are not being allowed to ship into the U.S> right now. And haven't for a few months. Now I'm not in that line of work and can't get the first hand knowledge but I know the guy pretty well and have for several years. He's never steered me wrong yet that I know of. If that is the case it would make me wonder why. I have notices that most the imported ammo at places like cheaperthandirt or midwayusa are running out of these brands and are not allowing any backorders. They run out of some brands of ammo all the time but you've always been able to back order.

I can see the military rounds like 9x19, 223, 7.62x18, 308, and even .40 S&W being harder to get with conflicts all over the world and our armies stretched pretty wide but rounds like 22lr, 45 LC, 38spl,357 mag, 44 mag, even 30 30 lever rifle rounds are about nonexistent. Gun sales have been spiking since 9-11 and there's always been ammo to be found. These two front war is not a new thing. And we where still able to get ammo. I'm getting to the point where I'm starting to believe that it's more than the private sector buying up and hording ammunition. It seems that the kids on the hill for the most part and even Obama has not actually they are going to write up AWB bills any time soon. Next best thing would be to control the ammo.

Wow! Just got back from a farm store in "Podunk" Idaho,
and they sold half a million rounds of 22 shells in less than a week!
I'm talking a little town here! Holy moly! Still astounds me to think about it!
I'm not talking a city here! Wow! Had to post this!
A customer started talking about why they were out of them, he said he didnt think it was a black or white issue and probably wasn't because of obama! The clerk made a comment about the sale price and I just said "its varmit season time to stock up" and wheeled away with my rifle and shotgun ammo. Finally ready for the zombie hoards now.


[edit on 19-4-2009 by dodadoom]

Originally posted by rogue1

Originally posted by on_yur_6
Just remember the so called civil world we live in at this time is just an experiment. At any time a dictator can rise up and will attempt to control those that can't protect themselves. This has happenned many time in the last 60 years. What makes you think it will never happen in the USA?

Interesting - you proclaim America as a free country but are so scared of the government you think you need weapons to protect yourself from it. I'm glad I live in a country with a democratic government which isn't feared by the people. America the freeist country in the world LMAO - you don't act like it is.
This country is already a police state from what I ahve seen how the police and judges sentence people for the slightest infractions.

We are a free country because we have our weapons. Everything may be all great for you know but when the SHTF and the economy collapses or a dictator takes over or war breaks out in your area, you won't be prepared to defend yourself. Sounds cheesy but freedom isn't free.

Back on topic, my friend that works at Walmart said they get their trucks here in OK every Monday, Tuesday and Friday. I was able to pick up some 9mm this week. 12 gauge 00 buck and 3030 on my list for this week. Maybe some 45 ACP but I have a nice amount now.

reply to post by dooper

I am SO curious as to what you do to/with the wild boars once you have your hands on them. Somebody told me once, if you punch them right between the eyes they go into a hypnotic trance. Do you know if this is true? Could boars be harnessed to pull a wagon?

reply to post by Fremd


You completely misinterpreted the Second Amendment. The subject is not the militia, although, since the militia is all adult able bodied, white property owners, then that works too.

Of course since then, women and non-whites would be included.

In other words, "a well prepared adult population . . ."

Recent public education, huh?

reply to post by groingrinder

Once you had the hog, you'd throw him over on his/her side, put your foot on the neck, and another would help you get it tied.

We simply tied their legs, threw them over the saddles, and hauled them back to a pen. They would be fed for months, fattened, and eventually taken to market.

But don't think this was about economics. The hogs would barely pay for horse and dog feed.

It was pure excitement.

A couple of months ago, I bought a 500 round case of 7.62x39 ammunition ( I had bought a 120 rounds a couple weeks earlier)

My dad asked me "That's a lot don't you think?"


At the time it did seem like a lot, but I am so glad that I chose to spend that much now.

Originally posted by Fremd
unfortunately, when you bring in the second amendment, that's where you're wrong.

By using simple grammar that most of us would have learned back in elementary school, we can break up the amendment

here it is, as it appears in the Bill of Rights

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

source


A well regulated Militia is the subject of this sentence.
What is the purpose of this militia? To keep the security of a free state.

Now, it goes on to elaborate.

The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

"the people" as it is written in the bill of rights, refers to the militia, more pointedly, refers to what makes up that militia, not an individual right for you or me.

If it were an individual right, then the people should be capitalized, as such "The People" since it refers to another group "THE PEOPLE" being everyone as a whole.


You have to put yourself in the correct mind set.

The people of 1776 worshiped writing. They loved it. They would not have mistakenly made such an elementary grammatical error, unless of course, the did not intend for it to be an error, as such, the people of the militia shall not have their rights to bare arms infringed.

Simple translation: Want the right to a weapon as given by the constitution? Go join a militia.

An individual is NOT a militia.

[edit on 30-3-2009 by Fremd]

Apologies for bumping an extremely old thread, but I felt this should be brought to the posters' attention:

USC, Title 10, Chapter 13 § 311:

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

By law, any males between the ages of 17-45, and are "able-bodied" are a part of the unorganized militia.

Just throwing that out there.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir

Originally posted by WatchRider
I'm not even from the US and I think that's a bs line of thinking.

What advantages the PTB have are negated by the fact that to bring there overwhelming firepower and technology against the militiamen etc they need to have set battlelines and a clear enemy.
Also there needs to be a logistical supply line to keep troops fighting against an enemy. A lot of soldiers (excluding most SF troops) will be paralysed if the logistics chain is messed with.
The militiafolk and other survivalists will not have such problems

In past discussions, things like Vietnam were used as an example of how a minority militia could defeat a supposedly superior fire-power* because of the combat environment. What I said then was that America, like a lot of Vietnam, already has a massive infrastructure in place and a massive network transport system. Also, 'The Powers That Be' would also have access to transport that any militia wouldn't have on any real tangible scale such as planes and helicopters to create a supply line. What are people going to be shooting these planes out of the sky with their handguns and limited ammunition?


*not as cut and dried as many think due to support from China &c.

EDIT: anyway, perhaps this is all going too far off-thread.


[edit on 21-3-2009 by Merriman Weir]

You dismiss the Vietnam war, but what about the Afghans handing the Russians their dairy air? There are ample examples of small, ill fit militias taking out a much superior army. Hell, the war of 1812 were Alexanders rag tag group slaughtered the most powerful military of the age while being out numbered 3 to 1.


[edit on 15-5-2009 by Bearack]

BTW, states have access to the top military hardware and have absolute control of their paticular national guard.

Do you recall the situtation in Arizona some years ago where they used their national gaurd as a deterrant against US federal troops entering the national parks?