What kind of Government do you people want after this civil war?

reply to post by littlebunny


I don't know if a civil war must happen to bring this change about, but the US constitution DOES NOT have to be rewritten, it just needs to be followed.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the constitution, not at all.

Originally posted by grover
Considering the right wing has always been in the minority and by all accounts most people approve of the way the president is handling things... your post is a joke.

Considering this country is a over 70% capitalist... and socialism, most Americans agree is disgusting... and who agrees or approves of less then two month old President Obama?

I have only talked to two people that believe he is, "trying," to do a good job but hate what he is doing... Most of the people I talk to think he's trying to destroy America as we know it... I don't agree, hell he's only been in office less then two months, I mean give the man a break, and give me a break saying what a great job he‘s doing… He hasn‘t done a damn thing yet but fly around in Air Force One, have outlandish parties at tax payer expense and put his signature to paper costing future generations trillions of dollars… Whipeee!

Oh...BTW... Then President Bush had a higher approval rating then President Obama did during his first month and then President Bush's approval was higher still then President Obama's is during his second month... HMMM! Grover, you seem to be the one posting jokes!

Originally posted by Swordbeast
reply to post by littlebunny

 

I don't know if a civil war must happen to bring this change about, but the US constitution DOES NOT have to be rewritten, it just needs to be followed.
There is nothing inherently wrong with the constitution, not at all.

I agree with you 100%! But this government, regardless of party btw, does not! So what would you do, or want to see different if/after this country went into a violent civil war?

I think I'd like to see something like a military dictatorship in a size 8.
Maybe a thunderdome style government. The only law: 2 men enter, one man leaves. Perhaps a technocracy. Maybe we should do like that Dylan song and put all the mentally ill people in governemnt positions. Or children.

Truly I would like to see a matriarchy. A sexy matriarchy.

Funny... if any of us on the left posted this thread during the bush minor years you idiots would be howling... calling us traitors, blame America firsters and threatening us with gitmo... at the very least...

... now that there is a Democrat in office the moron beck asks on his website what type of revolution do you want and threads like this start popping up.

Originally posted by peggy m

An external authority... what you call a constitution and people to uphold the constitution... it does not make sense! We are born free! Why must we allow a superior form of our race dictate to us what freedoms they allow us to have in the form of a constitution?

Peggy M, I don't mean to push this to hard, however, how old are you?

Now regarding the above quote... Because I live in the real world... I live in a world where evil exists hand and hand with good people wanting good things. I live within a species that seeks to have power, influence, and control. If you want to live with people singing koom-by-ya without protection or some semblance of order, then fine. However, when people show up with guns and rape, pillage and plunger on the mind, you're done!
Is there away for there to be a government that is also governed by the people, so they can't steal our freedoms between elections? Could that be a peaceful solution to this countries problems? OR what must exist after the violence is over?

Oh... I am amazed! Truly and respectfully... you scream... you beg... you demand change... freedom ... equality... but settle... for insanity.

Insanity: executing the exact same plan expecting different results! How's that working for you? Dr. Phil has a couch ready!

reply to post by littlebunny


Washington needs a serious clean-up.
Check every single senator and congressman for his affiliations to banks, the military industrial complex, the oil industry, the pharma industry and the food industry.
Only people that are in no way affiliated to any big money / big power consortium should be allowed to keep their seat.
If the revolt or whatever is already ongoing, it should not be too difficult to ensure this as well.

Other than that, every single law and every single Executive order should be double-checked for constitutionality and functionality. If its against the constitution or in any way costs more than it is useful, scrap it.

Originally posted by grover
Funny... if any of us on the left posted this thread during the bush minor years you idiots would be howling... calling us traitors, blame America firsters and threatening us with gitmo... at the very least...

... now that there is a Democrat in office the moron beck asks on his website what type of revolution do you want and threads like this start popping up.

Alright damn it! This has nothing to do with political party... hell yes I am an ultra-conservative capitalist... I admit it! But that is not the freaken point of this discussion. The point is, just about every fifth post or so on this site has someone talking about a violent civil war. If that is what people want, WHICH I STRONGLY DOUBT, the point of this mental exercise is to find out what kind of government they want when the shooting stops!

I have already said give President Obama a chance... GIVE HIM A CHANCE... before you people start making bumper stickers that reads.... B.O. You STINK! (hint hint for someone who wants to make millions... Okay I couldn't resist, that is pretty funny though!)

[edit on 15-3-2009 by littlebunny]

You guys are totally blind to your own hypocrisy... my point being if its wrong for someone to advocate violent revolution (a crime BTW) when one party is in office it is equally wrong to advocate it when the other is.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by grover]

Originally posted by Swordbeast
reply to post by littlebunny

 

Washington needs a serious clean-up.
Check every single senator and congressman for his affiliations to banks, the military industrial complex, the oil industry, the pharma industry and the food industry.
Only people that are in no way affiliated to any big money / big power consortium should be allowed to keep their seat.
If the revolt or whatever is already ongoing, it should not be too difficult to ensure this as well.

Other than that, every single law and every single Executive order should be double-checked for constitutionality and functionality. If its against the constitution or in any way costs more than it is useful, scrap it.

AGREED! Regardless of PARTY! They are all corrupt! It is absolutely ridiculous that Republicans in Congress are talking about out of control spending when those SOB's spent like a bunch of drunken whores! (You paying attention Grover.) There word is worth nothing, and I am completely ashamed of the Republican party!

Does anyone else agree with Swordbeast that this should be done, now...or after a civil war?

Originally posted by peggy m
Why do we need government? Humans have existed for a very long time before they invented government, better actually, before government, so why do we even need a government. Unless of course it is to guarantee the entitlements to the rich off the backs of the poor.

No there hasnt always been an official government in place if you look back far enough. Hey, were were just wanderers walking everywhere from day to day long ago.

But there WAS a sort of government in place even before the word "government" exsisted. We had alpha males, pack leaders. What ever that one says, goes.

Sometimes certain members of the pack would try to overthrow (kill) the leader. Sometimes they were successful and sometimes they lost their own life in the process.

Other animals do that too. Wild animals live in packs and have a leader as well...

So in that sense we have always had a government...

now as for your question, pondering why we even need a government, Well that is VERY simple. Because anarchy wouold break out with out one and quite frankly the way humans are, we simply can not handle anarchy. People tend to treat anarchy as an excuse to justify violence.

Time and time again when people get together with the idea of peacfully protesting against their government. you see things go wild and people start rioting and looting and hurting and vandalising.

Socialogically speaking, if one person does it everyone else feels it is ok so they start doing it too. That is similar to experiments that have been done where some one lays on the ground pretending to be sick. Most people will just step over that person untill some one actually goes and tries to help then out of the blue tons of others will come and try to offer help!

Some one throws a punch in a crowd others will too. Humans just do not do well with out some guidlines. Hell we are barely making it with the guidlines we have now! We are just this side of wiping our selves off the face of the earth. Imagine how much faster that would happen if we didnt have any rules! If murder were ok, we would all be dead....

That is why We need government. We can not live with out it. Atleast not at this point in human civilization. even the small little villages on some remote island who has never seen or heard of civilization of governments. You will find that your civilization quickly dies with out it.

Originally posted by grover
You guys are totally blind to your own hypocrisy... my point being if its wrong for someone to advocate violent revolution (a crime BTW) when one party is in office it is equally wrong to advocate it when the other is.

[edit on 15-3-2009 by grover]

Liberals were talking about violent revolution when Bush was in office, yeah hypocrisy, tell me about it... And this has nothing what so ever to do with Party ,it has everything to do with a government that is completely out of control and people on this site feeling they have no alternative but violent revolt... Damn dude... really!

And no, its not a crime to peacefully talk about anything... Its a crime to try and implement it!

Originally posted by CallMeMaury
I think I'd like to see something like a military dictatorship in a size 8.
Maybe a thunderdome style government. The only law: 2 men enter, one man leaves. Perhaps a technocracy. Maybe we should do like that Dylan song and put all the mentally ill people in governemnt positions. Or children.

Truly I would like to see a matriarchy. A sexy matriarchy.

Oh that was great ... I hope you're a sexy matriarchy... Just for smarts you got my vote!

I never once heard a liberal advocate violent revolution in the bush years. Be that as it may you are getting pissed at me for the wrong thing. I am not taking you to task I am commenting on the self righteousness and hypocricy of the far right.

Originally posted by littlebunny

Ones needs to look no further then the French revolution to see just how bad a rebellion for rebellions sake can end up.

........

So… What kind of government are you hoping to have if/when/after this coming(?) civil war?

What was right with the French Revolution is that a bunch of elites were removed from circulation .... permanently. What, specifically, do you perceive to be wrong with the French government (that can't be explained in terms of long term government corruption)? Details please.

When the US dies (not if but when), I want a new Constitutional Republic based on the same principles our founding fathers laid down -- only stronger.

The first amendment should guarantee free speech except for the principle of shouting "fire" in a crowded theatre. No restrictions should be available from any other quarter.

The second amendment should guarantee all able-bodied the right to keep and bear arms for protection, hunting and defence against out-of-control politicians. The arms available to the public should be equil or better than anything available to the military.

The third amendment should prohibit, in peacetime or wartime, the quartering of soldiers (military personnel) in private homes without the owner's consent and immediate payment in gold.

The forth amendment should guard against unreasonable searches and seizures. It should specifically require search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it. No-knock warrants are illegal unless a life or death situation exists. Officers of the court or law enforcement that engage in illegal conduct under this amendment should be put to death.

The fifth amendment ..... you get the idea...... It's time to put government in it's rightful place as a *servant* of the people.

reply to post by littlebunny


Littlebunny, no disrespect but I have lived in this world for a number of generations. I have seen the worst the world has to offer and the best. The worst was controlled by the people who ALLOWED it to happen! Singing songs? Oh My child, if you only knew, I mean really knew. The world you live in as MAKE-believe by the ones that make you believe. Singing songs... yes... I sing songs! I live... I eat... I even type in this thing a world away perhaps? But who is happier? You? In the "real" made to believe world? or me? In a world I make? Hmmm? How old am I? Older than you would like to believe. And when YOU become as old as I and spout your realist thoughts on the world, perhaps my greatest gandchildren will pose the question of age to you... After all, it does avoid the issue, does it not?

Originally posted by grover
I never once heard a liberal advocate violent revolution in the bush years. Be that as it may you are getting pissed at me for the wrong thing. I am not taking you to task I am commenting on the self righteousness and hypocricy of the far right.

Well your first comment suggests otherwise! However, I can put down the, oh no he didn't complex... and start again!

There is self-righteousness on the right, no doubt! I believe that is why there are so many conservative people so hell bent at the moment! We literary have no where to go, while at the same time these people believe their country is being stolen from them.

Not all, but most of the people in the military are conservative leaning... They bled over the constitution because they believed in it, cherished it enough to kill others who threatened it. To carry a KIA brother so his family could bury him. Lost limbs over this document... And still others have thought their children to love the ideals this country USED to stand for and to honor the Constitution that gives us our rights. They believe it is almost dead and they are at, or feel they are being pushed to, an end.

I do not want violence, there has to be another way... However, once again, the point of this thread is a mental exercise only!

Is violence what is needed, if so what kind of government do you want afterwards? Grover, do you personally believe violence is ever needed for change... and if so, what change is worth violence to you?

Libertarianism- let a socialist faction take a geographic sector and ruin it themselves. Just as long as the original betrayers of freedom aren't able to get back on the good side- maybe their children but not those who contemptuously resented freedom.

Originally posted by peggy m
reply to post by littlebunny

 

Littlebunny, no disrespect but I have lived in this world for a number of generations. I have seen the worst the world has to offer and the best. The worst was controlled by the people who ALLOWED it to happen! Singing songs? Oh My child, if you only knew, I mean really knew. The world you live in as MAKE-believe by the ones that make you believe. Singing songs... yes... I sing songs! I live... I eat... I even type in this thing a world away perhaps? But who is happier? You? In the "real" made to believe world? or me? In a world I make? Hmmm? How old am I? Older than you would like to believe. And when YOU become as old as I and spout your realist thoughts on the world, perhaps my greatest gandchildren will pose the question of age to you... After all, it does avoid the issue, does it not?

Peggy m, I have seen first hand what those who think like you, the pain and suffering they usually have to endure! I sing songs too, but I am always ready. Are you? Do you even know what that means?

Evil is everywhere... I personally find what you are saying scary, because I know just how naive and dangerous it is. In our world, people who think like you do… always become victims! ALWAYS! While people like me, who aren't afraid and refuse to be a victim and hate those who take advantage of those weaker then them, we then have to take those people who hurt you down!

The people in this country have been singing songs and pretending for to damn long. I hope if people are waking up they are doing so to take control of our country back without violence... Sadly, if the posts on this website is a measure of what people are really thinking... If the sales of guns and ammo is a measure of what people are really thinking. My god!

This entire thread is a mental exercise to force these people to think! Violence must never be the first answer, it must always be the last. The question on the table is, what kind of government do you want after the shooting stops! If you want that government afterwards, what can you do to make it happen without firing one single shot in anger or frustration? This truly isn’t a Rambo thread!