What About The Forgotten US Northern Border?

Lately, there has been a lot of threads about the southern border, illegal immigrants, and Mexican drug lords or gangs invading the US. While much of the conversation is legit, I have to ask myself What about the Northern US border? What is the US doing to secure it? How easy is it for somebody, regardless of race, who wants to harm the US to gain entry into the US through the Northern Border?

Why do we only focus our attention on the Southern border?

First, the illegal immigrant issue.

According to a 2006 Pew Hispanic Center study, nearly half of the 12 million-plus illegal aliens in America arrived legally with temporary, non-immigrant visas.

www.diggersrealm.com...

Additional source

That means that about the other 50% come in through ports, US waterways, trains, airways, or the Southern or Northern Border.

If we redid the way we give Visas 50% of the illegal immigration problem would be solved. Does anyone recall how the 9/11 terrorists got into the country to do so much damage?

When was the last time our government stressed redoing the Visa system to prevent illegals and terrorists from coming into our country?

According to the GAO

The US northern border with Canada, running nearly 4,000 miles, is the longest undefended border in the entire world, according to the GAO.

www.hstoday.us...

Why does the US feel so safe not protecting these 4000 miles of border?

Comparison of borders

Crossing our southern border at most places requires a long and dangerous walk with few if any roads not covered by border agents. Crossing our northern border is an easy walk and has hundreds of unwatched roads that merge into our highway system after only a mile or two. Our northern border is protected by only 1,000 border agents, or one agent for every four miles (one for every 12 miles if you consider they are divided into three working shifts). Our southern border is protected by 12,000 border agents, or six agents for every mile

theissue.com...

Remember, 50% illegals overstay their visas and other 50% get in the US through a variety of ways. You have about 1000 men protecting 4000 miles.

Safety is number one.

To illustrate, Kutz said GAO investigators trying to enter the country from the north found several ports of entry along the U.S.-Canada border unmanned and unmonitored. He said at one site, they succeeded in simulated smuggling of radioactive and other contraband materials into the United States.

www.voanews.com...

How can safety be number one yet there are many unmanned stations along the Northern Border?

Homeland Security

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano has ordered an internal review and update on all departmental activities, programs and strategies for protecting the land border between the United States and Canada. Part of protecting that border includes using information technology systems.

The secretary issued a directive Jan. 23 that focuses on northern border strategy. An initial report is due by Feb. 10, and the final report is due by Feb. 17. The reports will cover current vulnerabilities, strategies for reducing vulnerabilities, requirements to carry out the strategies, and an overview of existing programs, budgets, timeframes and risks, Napolitano said in a news release.

fcw.com...

Technology is great. However, if you don't have the manpower, what good is technology?

Example of failed technology

After a couple of false starts, Predator unmanned drone aircraft are scheduled to start roaming the Canadian border next week.

www.startribune.com...

These drones cannot apprehend people. These drones cannot tell the difference between hunters or illegals. All they can do is relay info so that the border patrol can check it out. However, with so few men, will the BPA be able to get their in time before the people disappear into a town?

Our government has repeatedly said that terrorist are our biggest threat. If this is the case than it doesn't matter what Point of Entry they use to get in. All of them need to be secured with the same urgency.

What good is it to protect our Southern border from Mexico's drug violence spilling over while the terrorist are sneaking into the US via visa, US waterways, airways, or the 4000 mile long stretch known as the Northern Border.

I personally believe that the illegal immigrant issue is what is really feeding the fire over the Southern Border. I placed this in the conspiracy because I believe that many of our politicians have conspired to paint the Southern Border as our problem child. They have succeeded no doubt. Time to start thinking about the other methods illegals and terrorist might use to get in while everybody is busy watching the Southern Border.

Don't forget about the Northern Border!!!!!!

[edit on 23-2-2009 by jam321]

I gotta be completely honest with you. As a Canadian I'm worried about your northern border as well, but for different reasons I'm sure. Canada is poised to do relatively well through the global recession, assuming of course the recession itself doesn't lead to some sort of total collapse of the financial order. As things continue to deteriorate in your country, I have to wonder if a breaking point will be reached in which Canada begins to have a serious problem keeping illegal Americans out of our country.

I hope that doesn't come off as harsh, but I have my own interests to protect you know.

reply to post by flybynight


Harsh???? You have a well valid point. Many immigrants are headed to Canada and you have a right to protect your border. Do you have any info how secure the Canadians keep their side of the border?

Because there isn't much to fear from the Northern Red Socialist Hoard.

Just about everytime someone gets their panties in a knot and points North, it usually turns out to not be true.

We've got security coming in too. Just like your country. Usually, their more annoying about me coming back than the US guys dour attitude to me going south. (seriously, US border guards are like mall cops with less facial expression).

What exactly are you thinking that you need to protect yourself FROM?

Isolationism is very bad for you. You do realize that, don't you?

reply to post by jam321


That may be something that Canadians might not care to discuss on an open forum.
If they have methods in place and discuss them,that information is out there jam321.

reply to post by jam321


Well, I can tell you that the border from Detroit to Windsor is relatively secure. Especially post 9/11, they have really seemed to ramp up their efforts to stop anybody even remotely suspicious. I myself have had my vehicle searched 3 times, once going INTO Canada and twice coming out.

ground border control is good
via water it is not

Some points to remember:

1) Canada is a stable and thriving democratic nation.
2) Due to what was stated above, Canada is not on the verge of falling apart.
3) Canada's military and law enforcement agencies are not plagued by corruption and incompetence. Canada's military is one of the best in the world despite their issues with manpower and funding.
4) Canada actually protects their side of the border via the Canadian Border Services Agency (formerly the seperate Canadian Customs Service and the Canadian Immigration Service) and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. They also have the Canadian Rangers and Inuit scout units that protect the far north in the Arctic area.
5) AFAIK there has not been a significant drug or illegal immigrant smuggling issue from Canada nor has the issue of Islamic terrorism been an issue in Canada.

Mexico on the other hand is the exact opposite of each of those points.

just forget about securing your borders from terrorists. anyone high up enough to be known isn't a direct threat and anyone who is a threat is unknown. it's not dificult to get a tourist visa to the US.

it really is a case of bailing out a boat with a sieve.

economic migrants will come from mexico but the gains of illegally entering the US, to work, from Canada are non-existent. spending much money on the Canadian border is a waste.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
Some points to remember:

1) Canada is a stable and thriving democratic nation.
2) Due to what was stated above, Canada is not on the verge of falling apart.
3) Canada's military and law enforcement agencies are not plagued by corruption and incompetence. Canada's military is one of the best in the world despite their issues with manpower and funding.
4) Canada actually protects their side of the border via the Canadian Border Services Agency (formerly the seperate Canadian Customs Service and the Canadian Immigration Service) and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. They also have the Canadian Rangers and Inuit scout units that protect the far north in the Arctic area.
5) AFAIK there has not been a significant drug or illegal immigrant smuggling issue from Canada nor has the issue of Islamic terrorism been an issue in Canada.

Mexico on the other hand is the exact opposite of each of those points.

nice summary foe, lol

Ya U.S.'s police and Canada's are night and day in my opinion
or at least my from my experience

it's still very easy to pass customs however by plane
but ya that isnt' relevant to illegal immigrant

but there's has been some things regarding terroism
the CN Tower was an al qaeda target I read in the paper


[edit on 23-2-2009 by ModernAcademia]

reply to post by ChrisF231


I really don't care what Canada is or What Canada isn't doing or what situation they are in. No disrespect to Canadians. A threat is a threat and it is the US government's responsibility to secure its own borders.

Are you going to blame Canada for not doing its job the next time a Millennium type bomber tries to sneak through the Northern Border and is successful creating damage in the US?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


At least as far as Lake Erie/the Detroit River goes, the security IS in place. When it comes down to Lake Huron and Michigan, i'm not nearly as certain....However, those lakes are MASSIVE and extremely dangerous, not to mention the presence of the coast guard there. I personally would be more worried about the rest of the border, especially that which extends from Wisconsin westward for thousands of miles.

reply to post by jam321


The problems that America face are inherit to greed corruption lack of integrity and self serving interests. How would that be Canada's fault ?

The problems in America are not all external. They are internal as well.
Canada is not only friends with America but they have to protect themselves from American value systems and interests.

What would like, a fifty foot high wall around America ?

I have nothing against the Southern border being secured. I just feel that the reason they give us is lame. The Southern Border is not about terrorism. If it really was about terrorism you would see the same priority with every other way somebody could get into the US.

This is from 2006 but interesting especially since our politicians were screaming right after 9/11 that terrorist may come in through the Southern border.

So far, however, there is little evidence they are. Using newspaper reports and government documents, Robert S. Leiken and Steven Brooke of the Nixon Center have painstakingly compiled a database of 373 known or suspected terrorists in North America or Western Europe since 1993. In a forthcoming essay in the journal Terrorism and Political Violence, they disclose their findings: Not one terrorist has entered the United States from Mexico. And they're not the only ones who have reached that conclusion. As a recent paper published by Syracuse University's Institute for National Security and Counterterrorism notes, "it does not appear that authorities have apprehended even a single terrorist trying to cross over the southern border into the United States."

www.washingtonpost.com...

I also find this fastcheck article interesting also.

However, the Border Patrol has released such figures to Rep. Tom Tancredo, a Republican from Colorado and a crusader for increased efforts to stop illegal immigration. Tancredo has released the figures publicly, and the Border Patrol doesn't dispute their authenticity.

The figures confirm that large numbers of non-Mexicans are caught coming across the Mexican border illegally each year, and a tiny fraction of them are from the seven nations mentioned in the ad. During the three years immediately following the attacks of September 2001 – the years covered by the figures Tancredo has released so far – the Border Patrol reported capturing a total of 946 persons from the seven nations attempting to enter illegally. However, only 320 of those were caught at the Mexican border, where the ad's sponsors want to build a fence. Nearly twice as many were caught coming in from Canada and other points. In all, 472 were apprehended at the Canadian border, and 154 were apprehended in the Miami, New Orleans and Puerto Rico regions of the Border Patrol.

www.factcheck.org...

People are trying to make the Southern Border a terrorism case when in reality it is an effort to stop illegal immigration.

I prefer they call it for what it really is instead of trying to paint a bunch of Latins/Hispanics as terrorist or terrorist supporters.

I have already offered one way to cut illegal immigration in half and that is to redo the way visas are granted. Yet since 2001 the Visa program is basically the same. This just means nothing was learned from 9/11.

reply to post by The Utopian Penguin

What would like, a fifty foot high wall around America ?

What I would like is to see the US own up that the Southern border is about illegal immigration not terrorism?

As far as the wall, kinda ironic how we want other people to tear down the same type of walls we are putting in.

Once again, has nothing to do with Canada. I have great respect for Canada. It is about the US policy to protect our borders from terrorism, yet everything is unsecured. The most secured place is the Southern border and even that place has its gaps.

so you WANT to spend tons of money on a useless project that also happens to fee the isolationism that will undermine your economy.......

and you think that this is a GOOD idea.

That's Fascinating. Perhaps spending that money on a realistic health care system would be a better use of such money.

To the OP, instead of speaking of nothing learned from 9/11
You are right, but not in the way you think of

Have you read a little at least of the 9/11's commision report?
Do you know what caused that and other terrroist attacks?

Answer that question and you will see why Canada barely has any terroist attack problems.

Originally posted by Aeons
so you WANT to spend tons of money on a useless project that also happens to fee the isolationism that will undermine your economy.......

A strong border does not equal isolationism

A "strong" border for no reason does.

reply to post by Aeons


And what good is our economy if terrorist come in and create havoc in our country. Did 9/11 hurt us economically or not?

If your not worried about protecting the other entry points because it cost so much money, why are you for spending more money fortifying the Southern border?

Either we protect all points of entry or we take our risks on all those fear mongering things our government has told us could happen if we don't secure our border.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I see where your coming from and our government did invite trouble and that trouble is still looking for us. But for our government to keep saying that terrorist could come in through the South is only partly true. There are other avenues far less secured.

Basically, no one wants to see the North secured because of economic ties with Canada.