Ron Paul to Bill Maher: America's War on Drugs must end

reply to post by vcwxvwligen


Your speculation based on history is true to some extent. However, consumers are lazy. Why don't we just buy a chicken and produce our own eggs instead of buying them? Why not, grow our own tobacco, or make our own beer? There are tons of things that we as a people could do on our own with little effort. But most people have better things to do. I, as I am sure most people, would rather buy their legal substances from a store than have to produce it. I doubt that people would forfeit paying 5 dollars for a pack of cigarettes and instead grow their own tobacco.

Your money laundering excuse also does not count because that money is typically not taxed, and thus does nothing to contribute to society.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
reply to post by vcwxvwligen

 

Your speculation based on history is true to some extent. However, consumers are lazy. Why don't we just buy a chicken and produce our own eggs instead of buying them? Why not, grow our own tobacco, or make our own beer? There are tons of things that we as a people could do on our own with little effort. But most people have better things to do. I, as I am sure most people, would rather buy their legal substances from a store than have to produce it. I doubt that people would forfeit paying 5 dollars for a pack of cigarettes and instead grow their own tobacco.

Your money laundering excuse also does not count because that money is typically not taxed, and thus does nothing to contribute to society.

America is probably the most consumerist country in the world. That hasn't stopped people from growing their own marijuana, however. Marijuana has probably the greatest yield for the least investment of all crops. It is likely that farm-produced marijuana will attract more illegal immigrant workers.

But Ron Paul doesn't want to tax marijuana at all.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
This whole marijuana ploy is simply to weaken the US government, as well as to generate apathy in those who use it.

Can you explain how that works exactly...?

Smoking marijuana causes lung cancer, so by legalizing it the government would be legalizing yet another carcinogen.

Hmmmm. I might suspect you of either lacking data severely...or spreading disinformation. There has been ZERO evidence of carcinogenic activity with marijuana (though a "study" pops up now and then and is widely reported, but when the "study" is shown to be severely flawed, the media don't mention that), and, quite the opposite, there is a plethoa of evidence that it assists in CURING cancer.

They have even absolved it of causing emphysema.

You can't go into somebody's house and tell whether they're smoking it, or making tea, or putting it in the brownies, so there's no point in legalizing only THC.

And besides that, extracted THC has been separated from all the other phytochemicals that work together for our benefit. The whole plant has beneficial aspects that work synergistically.

There are claims that it placates people.

By "placate," do you mean "calms them down?

Ok, but it's also been shown to lead to aggressive behavior as well as hallucination.

Not in ANY study that has been shown to be a valid one. In fact, being a stress-reliever, it promotes calm reaction as opposed to violence.

Again, either you are grossly ill-informed, or you're here to spread disinformation.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You really expect me to believe the Washington Post, or the pharmaceutical-funded WebMD ?

You're kidding, right? Big Pharma has been FIGHTING marijuana for a long while. That their mouthpiece admits that there is no link should be a MAJOR clue. They cannot show that it does in any honest study.

Why would they fight this drug? It cannot be patented, it can be grown by the user, and it treats a very wide array of symptoms without side effects. It cuts into profits BIG time.

So... Your arguement here is baseless.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
The Japanese don't smoke marijuana, yet they have among the lowest rates of murder and heart disease, and the greatest longevity. They have other diseases, related mostly to their consumption of soy.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! They DON'T? The Japanese don't smoke it? I will bet you dollars to donuts that some roughly equal percentage of them do as here in the States, as it is a worldwide phenomenon at this point, and will call this disinformation unless you can prove this is true.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
Actually, marijuana and coc aine are produced in Mexico and the Caribbean.

Well, I don't know about coc aine - I haven't studied it. But I DO know that marijuana is (or can be) grown on all continents but Antarctica, from the tropics to subpolar regions.

So, yes... Mexico and the Caribbean grow it. But so does the US, Canada, South America, Africa, Europe, Asia, and Australia.

Not sure why you singled out those two locations.

[edit on 2/24/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
HFCS absolutely should be made illegal, as should tobacco. Caffeine and ethanol are difficult to avoid in raw food

I will admit that, no matter how hard I try to give you the benefit of the doubt, I keep coming back to the idea that you are looking to control people. No, HFCS should NOT be illegal - just that we should all be educated on its dangers, and items containing it should be labeled with a warning.

Cigs are right where they should be, with education on the expected outcome of making a choice to start smoking, combined with a warning label.

We saw, with alcohol, what prohibition does, and it has repeated itself in the modern prohibition. Prohibition is what should be outlawed. It causes gangs fighting turf wars, adulterated product, police corruption, and more.

Not incredibly lethal, but it seems like people are really gung-ho about getting it legalized, while there are more serious issues on the table. Where is the push to ban fluoride?

While I agree that fluoride is evil, and we should ban it in our water supply, I have to ask you how many people are in jail because of it? How many functioning families have been ripped apart because of it? How many people have been disenfranchised because of it? How many homes have been invaded using it as a justification? How many people have lost years and decades of their lives because of it?

Just because we want the persecution to stop does not mean we are not fighting fluoride too, by the way.

Seems more like an insincere effort towards undermining the authority of the US government.

Mmmm. Since We, the People, are nominally the "Government," how does doing what the majority of us want constitute an undermining of the government. Please, I really want to know how you have got that figured.

reply to post by Amaterasu


Interesting; here's 2008 statistics:

TOKYO (AFP) – Japan saw a record number of marijuana offences last year, according to police, amid a crackdown on pop stars, sumo wrestlers and other celebrities who have been caught with the drug.

Police arrested 2,778 people for marijuana-related crimes in 2008, 22.3 percent more than the previous year, even though other drug-related crimes dropped off slightly, the National Police Agency said.

news.yahoo.com...

Now, that may be a 'record number' for Japan, but the actual number (2,778 people) seems very low. Does anyone have a similar statistic for the United States, so a per-capita comparison can be made?

Originally posted by Ian McLean
Now, that may be a 'record number' for Japan, but the actual number (2,778 people) seems very low. Does anyone have a similar statistic for the United States, so a per-capita comparison can be made?

In order to make a good comparison, we also must take into account the avidity of the efforts to arrest users in both nations. By this I mean, how much push is there to "go out and get those evil dope smokers?"

If all arrests were made in Japan because they ignore it except when it's in their face - like finding it while looking for something else, for example - as opposed to actively seeking users, sellers, distributors and growers as we see here... Then the figures alone are not a valid way of gauging levels of use.

If efforts are similar, then it is a better gauge.

reply to post by Ian McLean

Police arrested an estimated 872,720 persons for cannabis violations in 2007, the highest annual total ever recorded in the United States, according to statistics compiled by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Of those charged with cannabis violations, approximately 89 percent, 775,137 Americans were charged with possession only. An American is now arrested for violating cannabis laws every 38 seconds.

Taken from www.Drugsense.org's war on drugs clock; Cited from the Uniform Crime Reports, Federal Bureau of Investigation

Originally posted by Ian McLean
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Interesting; here's 2008 statistics:

TOKYO (AFP) – Japan saw a record number of marijuana offences last year, according to police, amid a crackdown on pop stars, sumo wrestlers and other celebrities who have been caught with the drug.

Police arrested 2,778 people for marijuana-related crimes in 2008, 22.3 percent more than the previous year, even though other drug-related crimes dropped off slightly, the National Police Agency said.

news.yahoo.com...

Now, that may be a 'record number' for Japan, but the actual number (2,778 people) seems very low. Does anyone have a similar statistic for the United States, so a per-capita comparison can be made?

Here is a table showing different countries and cannabis use medicine.plosjournals.org.../journal.pmed.0050141&id=14269&ct=1 (Fixed Link)

Showing Japan at a mere 1.5% of the population. That's super low.




[edit on 24-2-2009 by Reddupo]

reply to post by Amaterasu



Weed is a depressant, which demotivates people from engaging in normal activities. I explained already how pro-marijuana lobbyists are attempting to rewrite the Constitution.

I'm sure Amy Winehouse could use some of that cancer juice.
Lots of things help cancer, including *gasp* prevention !

Yes, I do not disagree that marijuana calms people down

I think the disinfo agents are people who claim that marijuana cures cancer. Does it also cure whooping cough, make hair shiny, and bring color to a woman's complexion?

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You really expect me to believe the Washington Post, or the pharmaceutical-funded WebMD ?

You're kidding, right? Big Pharma has been FIGHTING marijuana for a long while. That their mouthpiece admits that there is no link should be a MAJOR clue. They cannot show that it does in any honest study.

Why would they fight this drug? It cannot be patented, it can be grown by the user, and it treats a very wide array of symptoms without side effects. It cuts into profits BIG time.

So... Your arguement here is baseless.

WebMD endorses the use of pharmaceuticals to treat cancer and high cholesterol.

I'm sure that government regulations cut into profits as well

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
You really expect me to believe the Washington Post, or the pharmaceutical-funded WebMD ?

You're kidding, right? Big Pharma has been FIGHTING marijuana for a long while. That their mouthpiece admits that there is no link should be a MAJOR clue. They cannot show that it does in any honest study.

Why would they fight this drug? It cannot be patented, it can be grown by the user, and it treats a very wide array of symptoms without side effects. It cuts into profits BIG time.

So... Your arguement here is baseless.

WebMD endorses the use of pharmaceuticals to treat cancer and high cholesterol.

I'm sure that government regulations cut into profits as well

It doesn't matter I already told you that WebMD was just reporting the results of an independent study done by John Hopkins Medical School

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Weed is a depressant, which demotivates people from engaging in normal activities. I explained already how pro-marijuana lobbyists are attempting to rewrite the Constitution.

I'm sure Amy Winehouse could use some of that cancer juice.
Lots of things help cancer, including *gasp* prevention !

Yes, I do not disagree that marijuana calms people down

I think the disinfo agents are people who claim that marijuana cures cancer. Does it also cure whooping cough, make hair shiny, and bring color to a woman's complexion?

I think caballero was right. You're just a troll.

*press ignore button*

reply to post by Amaterasu



There's no public benefit for using HFCS, and recently it's been shown to be contaminated with mercury. Labels are put on cigarettes too

Tobacco companies advertise aggressively, which in itself influences many people to smoke

That's what I would like to know -- why nobody goes to jail for fluoridating the water.

We the people are not the government, nor does the government exist to serve the public. You have a lot to learn.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Weed is a depressant, which demotivates people from engaging in normal activities..

According to whom? Please offer your sources, or I too will write you off as caballero did.

I explained already how pro-marijuana lobbyists are attempting to rewrite the Constitution

Um... Guess I missed it - and your links to valid sources.

I'm sure Amy Winehouse could use some of that cancer juice.
Lots of things help cancer, including *gasp* prevention !

I am at a loss to grasp what you're point is here. There is a very good piece on its cancer intervention on current.com called "Run From the Cure." Look for it.

Yes, I do not disagree that marijuana calms people down

I see. Hey, you can hold whatever opinion of it you want. But I think it is quite funny that first it is a depressant and keeps people from having any motivation and in the same post, it does not calm people down...

And you can hold this doublethink in your head, but that does not change things. In fact, I was told a story by a veteran police officer. He was with a rookie, keeping the peace at a music festival. The rookie came up to him and asked if they were going to go "bust that group of people over there."

The veteran asked why. The rookie pointed out that they were smoking marijuana. The veteran pointed out that the group smoking was causing no problems whatsoever, but the groups drinking... THAT was another story. Those were the ones the two of them should watch.

From this, I have to conclude that though you don't want to believe that it has the effect of mellowing people, in fact, it does.

I think the disinfo agents are people who claim that marijuana cures cancer.

You mean all the studies, which have been shown to be rigorous and honest? Mmm. Ok. You can think that. It doesn't make it true.

And let's not consider the many who swear by it as having helped cure them. Anecdotal at best, I am sure.

Does it also cure whooping cough, make hair shiny, and bring color to a woman's complexion?

[edit on 2/24/2009 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
WebMD endorses the use of pharmaceuticals to treat cancer and high cholesterol.

You are a pro at obfuscation, I'll give you that. What relevance has this?

I'm sure that government regulations cut into profits as well

Not NEARLY as much as you think.

Originally posted by vcwxvwligen
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

There's no public benefit for using HFCS, and recently it's been shown to be contaminated with mercury. Labels are put on cigarettes too

HFCS: I agree it's bad. Educate and warn. And you are repeating me? I SAID cigs are labeled.

Tobacco companies advertise aggressively, which in itself influences many people to smoke

Um... Yeah. Your point?

That's what I would like to know -- why nobody goes to jail for fluoridating the water.

Because reality is weirder that most can even entertain, let alone believe, and fluoride is a good tool to keep people plyable and docile. Therefore, it is legal.

We the people are not the government, nor does the government exist to serve the public. You have a lot to learn.

Where are you going with this? Of the People, for the People, by the People... Yes, there are factions who strip us of power at every opportunity, but your comment about "undermining" the Government was absurd. Are you suggesting we should not undermine those that work to strip us of our power...?

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Jonro]

[edit on 24-2-2009 by Jonro]