The Pharaoh question, Alien? Prophet? Woman? Sick man?

Akhenaton has always captured interest for both Egyptologists and regular people.
This thread is to open up discussion on whether he was:

A) a pharaoh with a malformation/glandular disease with a touch of despot and megalomaniac about him.
B) an alien
C) the biblical Moses
D) a woman who usurped power like Hatshepsut and posed as a male.

Background (sorry to those who are well versed on Egypt, but I want to invite others interested in it to this thread)

Pharaohs were considered Gods.
They had a pantheon of Gods. The centre of priestly power was Thebes.
Amon was a head God.
Amenhotep IV changed His name to Akhenaton after receiving a vision from Ra (Re) the Sun God. Akhenaton outlawed all Gods in the Kingdoms of Egypt except for Aten, The Sun Disk God. As Pharaoh, Akhenaten was the High Priest of Re (Ra). He also believed that he was the Son of God. Akhenaten was a predecessor of monotheistic concepts found in Christianity, Islam and Judaism. These religions believe in One God.

Akhenaton moved the state from Thebes to Tel el Amarna and in 1 blow deconstructed (temporarily) the enormous power base of the priests. This was a unprecedented political and power upheaval that scarred the polytheistic establishment badly. Akhenaton was scratched from history, literally, removal of his cartouche from most hieroglyphs and his tomb and that of his stunning wife Neferetiti have never been found (conjecture on Nefertiti being found exists) He fell from power (there's no record of his death, and his tomb at Amarna doesn't appear to have been used or finished) the site was raped of its stones for building and was completely abandoned.

He was married to Nefertiti. They had 6 children. He showed no images of King Tut as his son who reigned after him, only daughters.
The artwork from the Amarna is very different to the artwork from New Kingdom. It was very naturalistic, depicting malformations (never done before) nature, family life. Fewer images compared to other pharaohs of great battles and conquests. Quite the hippy.

He looked malformed, alien like if you will.
www.domainofman.com...

I personally believe he looks like Steve Tyler from Aerosmith, but Steve as an alien, well that's a whole new thread
img.thesun.co.uk...


PHYSICAL DISORDER OR A WOMAN
msnbcmedia.msn.com...

His limbs were elongated and he had breasts, woman's hips, and a beer belly to boot. For the most part, archaeologists believe that Akhenaten had a serious glandular disorder, which would have given him a long head and bloated feminine features.

-Some argue the femaleness of form was due to a genetic mutation that caused the pharaoh's body to convert more male hormones to female hormones than needed

-Others believe Akhenaten's head was misshapen because of a condition in which skull bones fuse at an early age.

-Marfan Syndrome "Marfan syndrome is an autosomal dominant genetic disorder of the connective tissue characterized by disproportionately long limbs, long thin fingers, a typically tall stature, and a predisposition to cardiovascular abnormalities, specifically those affecting the heart valves and aorta." en.wikipedia.org...

-Froehlich's Syndrome, which causes feminine fat distribution but also sterility. That doesn't fit Akhenaten, who had at least six daughters.

- Early on he is shown as having no boy bits.

-Artwork from this his period changed dramatically to very naturalistic scenes, nature worshipping almost. Images of his family life, replace epic tales of epic battles and conquests. Their 6 daughters in their laps, his wife almost as prominent as him. Quite the hippie compound of love, very much a female look on life.

Determining which is s right can easily be done if Egyptologists can confirm which mummy is Akhenaten's and if Egyptian government officials agree to DNA analysis. There is resistance and denial from Egypt that he has been found.


DESPOT PHARAOH BUT JUST A MAN:
Bones found at Te el el Amarna are identifiable as the workers who lived in the city; and they reveal they had a really hard life under Akhenaton. He wasn't all that loving and peaceful.

"The bones reveal a darker side to life, a striking reversal of the image that Akhenaten promoted, of an escape to sunlight and nature" says Professor Barry Kemp who is leading the excavations in the area.

Painted murals found in the tombs of high officials from the time show great wealth. But remains of workers and the ordinary people who lived in the city show a harshness to life, extreme heavy labour, and malnourishment, and they had the shortest stature ever recorded from Egypt's past. Other workers bones from other periods show they were actually quite well looked after. They were not slaves, rather workers on off-season from Nile floods and agriculture.

Evidence has been found that an endemic swept trough the squalid conditions of the workers.
For more info you can google Barry Kemps findings in the area.


MOSES:
The consolidation of the many Egyptian gods into the one god, Aten, is considered to be first push to move a society to monotheism (one god). There are many arguments Akhenaton is in fact Moses, and you are welcome to visit another threads floating about at the moment on this topic.

After instruction from the '1 true god' he moved his people to a new city.

His father originally had 2 sons by his 1st wife, and it is unsure if he was 'adopted' or conceived by Amenhotep iii. It is common that they said all heirs were immaculate conceptions by the gods, but it also opens the possibility that he was adopted as Moses was.

The reign of Akhenaten ended badly - his constructions, were defaced or removed with only remnants left It is unsure if the place was abandoned because of plague (there are traces found...7 plagues connection) or because the priests put in Tutankhamun (who was originally TutakATON) and moved power back to Thebes. The Hittite (Egypt's nemesis), describe the devastation of an epidemic caught from Egyptians captured in battle around the time of Akhenaton/Tutankhamen's reign.

So he banned all other idols, faced a plague, and moved his people to a new promised land....sounds familiar....




[edit on 17-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

ALIEN:
Most of us have seen images in Egypt of craft and alien :
www.alienshift.com...
This is vase with plants coming out, its easy to see when you switch off from seeing aliens, and is a very common glyph.

I want to focus on 2 things here instead:

The sun disc and Akhenatens physical appearance.
www.touregypt.net...

AKHENATON looked, well weird! His depiction is of malformation. Is he being honest and natural in how he looked? This is the argument by most archaeologists today.
Another thought is: was he wanting to appear as the God Aten looked? Very interesting point, to show weakness by malformation is a unlikely trait of these people, and deformity wasn't shown unless depicting an enemy.
This key point is what has always attracted me to Akhenaton. The 'honesty in art' argument just goes against Egyptian New Kingdom thought on powerful people.

His odd appearance was particularly prominent in art from the early part of the reign. One early statue portrays the king in the nude and without genitalia of any kind.
I find the lack of genetalia the most intriguing part. Did he actually look this way? Or was he emulating a god he had 'seen'. He wanted to look like the god.
The Mafran syndrome wouldn't elongate the eyes and have no genetalia. Im no Mafran expert, maybe someone can jump in here? I do think the Egyptian tradition of charcoal elongation of the eyes is a emulation not just a beauty enhancement.

Amenhotep IV, better known as Akhenaten was considered the offspring of the Sun Disk,( or UFO presence in Egypt this is general thought, not necessarily my belief)
The impregnation of Amenhotep III’s wife Tiye by the Sun Disk visitor's) produced Amenhotep IV ..aka Akhenaten.
The alleged extraterrestrial or immaculate birth of Akhenaton prefigured the virgin birth of Jesus, and may have been instigated by the same “god” that created Jesus. I think there is potential for a whole new thread on this concept....but if you want to speculate that the same aliens impregnated Akhenatons mother as Mary, go for it
According to an inscription describing the pharaoh's conception, God entered the queen's bedchamber. The god's alluring aroma woke her, "and then the majesty of this god did all that he desired with her."

His wife's name Neferetiti literally means, the beautifully one who has come/( 'from afar' conjecture)

Their child has a elongated skull also.
It was very common for Egyptians to have their heads clean shaven to help deter lice. Akhenaten started a religious and artistic revolution, and people were represented very differently.
Skull in tomb KV 55 also has the elongated skull. Is this because of interbreeding. They married in the family people, or is it a extraterrestrial trait?
www.agoracosmopolitan.com...

family skull:
www.desertfoxoverland.co.uk...

Aten's name is also written differently highlighting his obsession with the rayed solar disc, in which the rays (commonly depicted ending in hands) and a universal deity. People have argued this disc is UFO worship.


Personally I think it represents the sun and not a UFO, the sun and the Nile was the life source. was to be taken as just that...but anyone who thinks otherwise is welcome to discuss


FINALLY
Why have his bones not been found? It is suspected they have been, but the evil Dr Hawass, head of Antiquities wont let anyone near them and wont acknowledge they are his bones.
Would we find Alien DNA if we did?
What was the disease if he is a human.
Was he a SHEMALE? Was he Nefertiti or was Akhenaton a dyke who married her...she was beyond beautiful.....
Why did Egyptians elongate their eyes with charcoal ...? imitating the gods? Where did these large almond eyes come from?
IS the sun disc a image of the sun, life source? or a craft? Was he worshipping a UFO or the Sun?




[edit on 17-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

i thought Nefertiti was supposed to be a black princess from the south, the ethnic make up of old egypt is still in dispute but i heard that the older tribe were connected with the southern tribes of africa but the power was mostly usurped by the semitic arab population returning from a quick social development in 'the furtile cresent' towards the end of the empire.

It is said that when the forest of north africa turned to desert the people moved south and north, those that went south lived in a large land of plenty and carried on as before while those that went north got cut off at the fertile crescent and were forced to exist in a smaller area, thus they had to cooperate more and it's no shock that we see far more complex speech, social systems set in places and soon rule of law is developed.

The first egyptians were those that stayed by the nile, they had dealings with the other african tribes but not so much with those that went north until the nations had developed more complex means of transport, which obviously came after rules, laws and contracts. At this point though there wasn't much separating them the two cultures so after a fairly short split they could have reintergrated fairly easily, maybe Egypt was special in that it was connected to the african jungle but also to the fertile crescent by ship or coastal walk (water and food from the sea making some travel possible) so that maybe they had enough of each culture to act as a bridge,

With complex social custom comes more deceptive means, politeness which is needed when people live in close quarters can quickly become a fencing match of wills and wits. The more 'cultured' north easterners (from egypts perspective) understood the advantage of power and that lies and plots could help you get it -thus the power base and focus of the civerlization shifted from being an african nation looking south to a mederterainian nation looking east.

Maybe this guy was one of the kings who was pushed off the throne in battles with the usurpers? He could have been the last black king of Egypt, hence they mix up history when people started saying 'didn't we have a black king before?' they said don't be silly that king was a freak with huge eyes and a funny shaped head, it's still the same race of god emporers that RA put in charge we've got rid of the crazy lizard demon that tried to take over! It would also explain the poor treatment of people, all those that complained were put in FEMA work camps to build pyramids and everyone else was beaten up with false flag famines, plauges and devine justice.

hehe how did joseph know about the 7years of pleanty and 7years of fammine? HE READ THEIR DOCS!!! PDD51, REX84, ALL ADMITTED TOTAL INSIDE JOB! This why it's so contradictory as to what life in egypt was like, we're getting either getting the Bill'o Fox News version or the NIST REPORT version, everything they wrote was designed to convince the population everything was fine, go back to sleep Egypt -egyptian gladiators is on, go back to sleep egypt your government is in control.

Great post! I'm hoping to shed a little bit of light onto this for you...

As far as the mishapen appearance of the skulls... Skull binding was a practice pretty common during these time periods... it involved wrapping the head tightly in leather straps, to achieve the wierd looking dome that you show in your OP...

as far as the sculpture from with no reproductive organs... I cannot recall ever seeing any egyptian sculptures depicting the "finer details" I know it was common with both women, and men, for their sculptures to not have nipples during different artistic movements... but I am not as versed in egyptian art... so I can't really help much...

however, I would think its appropriate, if you can find a photo of the sculpture, to link it in here... (maybe you did and I missed it, I'll have to check again).

As far as the Eyes, I have no answers...

I do not believe that moses was based on a singular individual however... I'm more inclined to believe that if moses existed, he would have been a hodgepodge of different, almost legendary figures... It is possible that some aspects of the Moses mythos might have came from this pharoh, but I'd need further research before even conceding that small point...

anyway man, I'll look and see what I can come up with as far as egyptian art around that time period... maybe I'll find something useful...

Originally posted by nj2day
Great post! I'm hoping to shed a little bit of light onto this for you...


as far as the sculpture from with no reproductive organs... I cannot recall ever seeing any egyptian sculptures depicting the "finer details" I know it was common with both women, and men, for their sculptures to not have nipples during different artistic movements... but I am not as versed in egyptian art... so I can't really help much...


anyway man, I'll look and see what I can come up with as far as egyptian art around that time period... maybe I'll find something useful...

They did show nipples, the Turin Papyrus is tantamount to Porn, we've shlongs, Girls bits in full display, so whilst it wasn't common to show all of it, they certainly did differentiate male to female.
www.egyptianculture.net...
www.thekeep.org...

Males were defined and they had imagery that was loaded with symbolism. So instead of a willy ejaculating (can you use that word on ATS?) you would have a images of spearing a fish etc.

The first images of Akhenaton from the start of his reign supposedly show no male definition? Im not sure of this, I should have researched it more and perhaps not used the word 'genetalia', Ill look it up and let you know, or let me know if you come across it first. It was really his first years that this was taking place.

Regarding the skull binding, yes it did take place. I mentioned the skull from tomb KV55 is believed to be from deformity rather than binding. If it was done for binding for aesthetic purposes, the question should be asked, Why did they find this attractive? What were they emulating? Where did they get such an idea....usually to emulate power or the gods? Did their Gods have these skulls?

[edit on 17-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

maybe he had deformities from lots of inbreeding that were peculiar to his family alone ,like the Hapsburg jaw,his children seem to have had similar characteristics

if the Egyptians,would stop hiding all the info they get from their archeological discoveries we could find out,they hide mummies they destroy mummies

their scientific cataloging is atrocious ,and their methods of going into tombs and handling of artifacts makes me want to scream

it's just banditry and deliberate destruction of artifacts and sites to preserve Allah's supremacy ,it's a crime against world heritage

Rant over ,I think it's a familial deformity,there are lots of examples ,like the lobster hand family or the wolf man family in Mexico

Its not sas bad as all that, remember Europeans use to ground up mummies to drink as an elixir, literally tens of thousands of mummies were destroyed this way. Its really yuk they did that, not to mention the historical record that has been lost.
Europeans are responsible for the plunder and destruction of Egytopian antiquities, noty Egyptians.

Their cataloging was very bad, but its getting better
They are protecting their antiquities alot more than they use to, training people, but they do limit research on finds, and that is very frutrating.

[edit on 17-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

Originally posted by NatureBoy
i thought Nefertiti was supposed to be a black princess from the south, the ethnic make up of old egypt is still in dispute but i heard that the older tribe were connected with the southern tribes of africa but the power was mostly usurped by the semitic arab population returning from a quick social development in 'the furtile cresent' towards the end of the empire."

----------------------------------------------------------
natureboy hi

there is really no evidence for Nefertiti's origin other than Tey, acted as wet-nurse or step-mother to Nefertiti which suggests she was Egyptian born. Her bust found in Amarna and housed in Berlin also doesn't indicate black skin, but you never know....

[edit on 19-2-2009 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by zazzafrazz





She looks.....Egyptian. In AE art they differentiated clearly different races and peoples. The people of Nubia and Egypt were presented in different colours.

Let me add some specific example of how the AE pictured non-Egyptians




[edit on 18/2/09 by Hanslune]

[edit on 18/2/09 by Hanslune]

I agree she was Egyptian 95%. Her bust though is beyond unqiue. The style is unique to that artisan in Amarna, and if we are going buy how they depicted Egyptians, I have never seen a depiction similar. As in the facial structure and realism, not the jewels, colours and head-dress.
I was replying to natureboy who thought she was possibly black, I just didnt want to give him a definitive 'I know best'.
I like he looked around for a different answer

hard to say. if from what is yourself you came to exist in physicality wouldnt you "experiment" in form with it? my take on zeptepi and ankh en aten

about what some call inbreeding; asexual production viewed from a sexual being would be viewed as inbreeding.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Ausar]

Originally posted by Ausar
about what some call inbreeding; asexual production viewed from a sexual being would be viewed as inbreeding.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Ausar]

you've lost me?
asexual RE-production you mean? I assume he had sex, his depictions with Nefertiti show great love and touching.
To be asexual is to not have sex? How is this inbreeding, I admit I havent had coffee today, so I may just be slow of the mark....

i like the way you people neglect to ask the important question,
Were the pharaoh actually sent from one of the gods,
Or were they as the pope is now, The gods right hand man on earth?

i know you people do not seem to have any form of acceptance of a higher controlling power,
but you should be trying to understand the pharaoh's origin story better before jumping to conclusions about aliens etc.

Originally posted by Ausar
about what some call inbreeding; asexual production viewed from a sexual being would be viewed as inbreeding.

[edit on 19-2-2009 by Ausar]

No. That's cloning.

Aahh Is that what they're talking about?
I admit I was a little lost on that one...

Another possibility for his disease:
www.egyptmonth.com...

The most likely diagnosis of Akhen-Aton’s disease is hyper-pituitrism. All bony abnormalities seem to favor such diagnosis, together with the sexual ones. A late onset of acromegaly or delayed hypo-gonadism sound to be most descriptive for his illness.

Further studies of the mummies and pictures of Akhen-Aton’s family might be an additive. The mummy of his grandfather Yoya (maternal side) shows a tall man with thick lips and large nose.

The mummies of his two successors Smenkh-Ka-Ra and Tut-Ankh-Aton (Tut-Ankh-Amon) also show large skulls. Both are thought by some Egyptologists to be his sons from a secondary wife, Kiya.

The early death of a younger brother at young age should also be kept in consideration.

All reliefs of Akhen-Aton’s family show that this large elongated skull was a common feature among his daughters, and his wife Nefertiti as well. This has led some scholars to believe that this skull feature has become a model of Egyptian art during this time. Nefertiti, the six princesses and all the court as well were so depicted as a compliment to Akhen-Aton.

If this suggestion is untrue, then the possibility of a hereditary disease - rather than an acquired one - is very likely.

can any of yall walk like an egyption

Awesome post, 2 years ago! I agree there is something about Akhenaten. Everything changed under his rule. Pictures of him with a pot belly are not in the traditional style. He sure seems ET to me!

Pic: Akhenaten, Nefertiti and their children

Fascinating stuff.

He's an interesting fellow.

The elongated head, the extended fingers, the female hips, the big lips, etc. probably weren't a visual representation of what he (and his children) actually looked like. The accepted consensus is that this was idealized, and being the 'heretic' pharaoh with radical incentive it really isn't surprising, I tend to agree with this. I suppose he found the female body to be more appropriate to depict on himself than his male body for some reason... probably comes down to idealization.

That or he was the Lady Gaga of ancient Egypt.

ETA:Just noticed this an old post... nevermind.

[edit on 3/6/2010 by serbsta]