The Actual Astronomy of 2012

Here's an excellent piece of work which I believe accurately describes what the Maya were pin pointing in their end date for the long count calendar.

I really think this may be it!

This is not a debunking nor is it speculative thread, this is based on astronomical facts and concerns only these celestial aspects in relation to Mayan mythology. Some may be disappointed with the conclusions, as for me I'm astounded to say the least, as it clearly shows the Maya possessed an incredibly mind boggling knowledge of astronomy.

To summarize some points from the essay.

- The alignment is not with the galactic centre, but with the galactic plane.

- Alignment with this plane occurs once a year.

- The special Alignment with the galactic plane on the winter solstice already occurred in 1998!

- This only happens once every "great year" or every 26000 years.

- The special occurrence that the author terms "The triple rebirth of the Sun" is what is significant about 2012.

- This rare event is location specific, in other words the event unfolds only from the perspective of southern Mexico.

So if galactic alignment on Winter solstice has already occurred does this mean the Maya where off by 14 years? No, it seems the Maya were concerned with a different event. "The triple rebirth of the Sun".
The explanation is simple and elegant and fits perfectly with Mayan mythology.

To the Maya Every morning is considered a rebirth of the Sun as it rises from the underworld. The Winter solstice can be considered the annual rebirth of the Sun. And you will see how the event of 2012 because of the precession cycle, the spin and orbit of the earth, the sun is seen to cross from one side of the galactic plane to the other symbolizing the galactic rebirth of the Sun!

These three things occur because of the rotation of the planet,(daily rebirth). The orbit of the planet about the sun, (annual Rebirth) and the slow wobble of the Earths axis called precession which spans 26000 years respectively. (The great year rebirth).

From the perspective of the Maya all three of these things occur throughout the complete day on solstice 2012.
A triple whammy once every 26000 years!

Wow!!

Sound confusing? not really, all will be revealed.
www.infinitelymystical.com...
Hats off to Thomas Razzeto, truly astounding work. Make sure to check out the vid.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by squiz]

Excellent piece of work indeed. It is a very nice change of pace to see a work about the significance of 12/21/2012 being more of an astronomical curiosity than anything else. None of the nonsense about passing through the galactic plane, galactic alignment, or (please, no) Nibiru. To any early agrarian culture a celestial event such as the "triple rebirth" would be of deep significance and possible reason for a basis of an important aspect of their calendar.

It does make a strong case for the Maya being aware of the precession of the equinoxes but it should be noted that the rate of precession is not constant. This variation might put a dent in the timing of the Long Count being based on precession.



[edit on 12/17/2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


Amen to that, I've had a deep interest in 2012 but don't comment much on it. I find it frustrating trying find any real facts because of the amount of speculation, and lets face it misinformation.
That's why this article is such a breath of fresh air.

You have a good point regarding the rate of precession, I'm wondering if the values over period of a few thousand years would make much of a difference? Over a few hundred years I don't think it would matter that much.
Is it possible (I know this is a big call) that the Maya were actually aware of the discrepancy?

It brings to mind this part of the article.

The Long Count calendar is 5,125 years long. Five cycles of the Long Count calendar add up to the great year to within one-half of one percent and the Maya show all five cycles in their artwork and talk about them in their folklore.

Many mainstream critics claim that this is just a coincidence since, in their opinion, the Maya could not and did not know about precession. But how could this be a coincidence when the Maya record stories about the shifts seen in their sky and base their calendar on what causes these shifts? And the ninety-nine and a half percent accuracy is quite compelling. In my opinion, this is strong evidence that the Maya had an accurate value for the precessional cycle. But this is just the beginning of the evidence!

Notice that the Maya have gone through less than one Long Count. What is most interesting is that they did not design the calendar and start using it as if they were on the first day. They started about three thousand years into it. Why? I think it's obvious they started at a specific point on purpose in order to have it end when they wanted. And consider this. What if they knew about the minor inaccuracy of one-half of one percent and properly accounted for it? If that were true, the calendar would of course end on the exact day that they wanted. Yes, the exact day!

If the Olmec did indeed create the long count calendar could it have been accurate to 100% at the time (a few thousand years ago) and the changing rate of precession has pushed the time frame the extra half a percent as it is today?
Half a percent may be too great a value over a period of a few thousand years. I'm sure the math could be done.

Either way very cool and awe inspiring I think.

Another aspect that really caught my imagination was the section on natural cycles.

The day is the quickest astronomical cycle that can be divided by four distinctive points, sunrise, high noon, sunset and midnight.

This reflects the four distinctive points in the year the two solstices and the two equinoxes. Summer solstice reflects high noon and the winter solstice reflects midnight.

As pointed out in the essay the great year also has four points of distinction.
One being the special galactic alignment of 1998.



So we've already begun the transition into the next "season" of the great year.

Now what isn't mentioned is that the true galactic year, that is the journey of the solar system around the galactic core some 250 million years or so is also divided by four points of distinction as the solar system orbits the galactic center it moves up and down through the galactic plane this path creates the four points of distinction in the galactic year.



It's fractal !

How awesome is that !!!

Great post. To bad the doomsday people wont believe it or even comment on it. It just seems like those types just want the world to end so there is no reasoning with them.

Here is the only other thread I know of about 2012 that is not based on new age mumbo jumbo: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Starred and flagged!

reply to post by Waldy



Why would we? We know where the errors are. We know no one wants to hear about them. We know how to tell time. The countdown has begun. It's only a matter of seconds before you see just how wrong we were.


Again? Why would we? We are a respectful lot. We don't wish to fill your fluffy threads with stuff you don't want to hear. We wish you would do the same for us, but we understand you're not that in control. You have something to prove and we can suport that. We'd only respond because you are so despet that you'd talk about us on your fluffy-a-nutta thread about false understandings based around the 2012 date.

As for us, we will be right in time. We have nothing to prove. Hope this answers your question.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Incarnated]

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by Waldy

 

Why would we? We know where the errors are. We know no one wants to hear about them. We know how to tell time. The countdown has begun. It's only a matter of seconds before you see just how wrong we were.


Again? Why would we? We are a respectful lot. We don't wish to fill your fluffy threads with stuff you don't want to hear. We wish you would do the same for us, but we understand you're not that in control. You have something to prove and we can suport that. We'd only respond because you are so despet that you'd talk about us on your fluffy-a-nutta thread about false understandings based around the 2012 date.

As for us, we will be right in time. We have nothing to prove. Hope this answers your question.

[edit on 18-12-2008 by Incarnated]

Eh, what are you talking about? Who are the "we" you keep talking about and what was the question you think I asked?

To the Maya Every morning is considered a rebirth of the Sun as it rises from the underworld.

So these Mayan astronomical geniuses thought Earth was flat and the Sun went beddy-byes down into the underworld every night?

You know, that makes absolute sense to me.

I read this thread last night and found it interesting but couldn't think of anything substantive to add. The ideas presented in the OP sure sound a lot more reasonable than imaginary planets and typical religious fear mongering. After 2012 it will be 2036 so I can't wait for updated Apophis (?) trajectories. We need a lot more happy people with positive outlooks working for the future.

Originally posted by squiz

Now what isn't mentioned is that the true galactic year, that is the journey of the solar system around the galactic core some 250 million years or so is also divided by four points of distinction as the solar system orbits the galactic center it moves up and down through the galactic plane this path creates the four points of distinction in the galactic year.

The figure I've seen most commonly used for the period of the harmonic oscillation is 2.7 cycles per galactic year. Not so tidy.

[edit on 12/18/2008 by Phage]

reply to post by Astyanax


It doesn't require knowledge of why the cycles occur in order to observe and place importance them. Anyone who's livelihood depends on cycles (agriculture) is going to pay close attention to all the cycles they can see.

The precessive cycle is very slow however (a bit more than 1 degree every hundred years). This is something that is very difficult to observe.

So on the long count are we entering the 5th cycle (or whatever it's referred to as) or is it ending?

Just curious I've seen both suggested and both claim to be right, well one of them has to be wrong.

hmm where lay's the magnetic centre of oure galaxy...could that be the key..

Originally posted by Darthorious
So on the long count are we entering the 5th cycle (or whatever it's referred to as) or is it ending?

Just curious I've seen both suggested and both claim to be right, well one of them has to be wrong.

I think the 5th cycle is ending, that would make sense since the event is once per great year and the long count calender is one fifth of the great year.
Then of course the cycle begins again.

OP you did an astounding job bring forth this interesting piece of evidence.

At the end of the day it is best to weigh all the options to get the clearest viewpoint on any subject and 2012 seems to resonate with many people.

So with that said, what you have done is create another subjective outlet for the ones that did not think the other fit into why they found the subject worth a second thought.

Originally posted by Phage
The figure I've seen most commonly used for the period of the harmonic oscillation is 2.7 cycles per galactic year. Not so tidy.

Well you are a wealth of info Phage, good to have you here.

Was just an idea, hey but pretty close. Given the range of error because of the vast amounts of time in at this scale you never know. After all the galactic year is estimated (depending) between 200 and 250 million years, that's quite wide margin in estimation.

Fractals are ordered chaos basically, self similar at various scales though not self identical, otherwise no complexity would arise from simplicity.
A more philosophical point of view than anything else.

I've been playing with the idea that the whole solar system may also be precessing at an even greater scale. What do you think?

[edit on 19-12-2008 by squiz]

reply to post by antar


Thank you very much, but I'm just the messenger of course.
I do think it's a very strong case. I was hoping it would get a little more attention, but with all the noise around the subject of 2012 it's understandable.
2012 may come and go and be written off in the public eye without many realising the significance, I hope that's not the case.

Originally posted by Astyanax
So these Mayan astronomical geniuses thought Earth was flat and the Sun went beddy-byes down into the underworld every night?

You know, that makes absolute sense to me.

You know something Asty, that is a very good point and it highlights the paradox of a primitive race possessing incredibly accurate astronomical measurements. It's truly baffling, since the Maya began there countdown in the midst of the calendar and not the start, and to hit the actual day means they would have had accurate measurements of the length of the year to within 40 seconds. How???

It's believed the Olmec where the originators of the long count calendar, I don't care what the academics say (the excuses are ridiculous IMO) those guys where African, most probably Egyptian. I'm thinking this may be why we find pyramids in Mesoamerica.
I have my theories but that would be going off on somewhat of a tangent to the astronomical side of things.
Here's a hint though, Thoth was also considered the god of calendars or time keeping.

The Mayans had a pendant with 85 loops surrounding the earth which represent sun spot cycles. According to this mayan legend changes here on earth are substantiated by this eleven year sunspot cycle. So there are eleven feathers and four arrows going through the earth representing four previous ages.

85x11x4=3,740 which is equal to an age or 1,366,040 days which represents the time when the suns magnetic field shifts, so it could be very much like crossing over into a different spiritual plane or dimension.

Now I am currently watching this, but I took a break to check out ATS and found this thread. What David Wilcocks is explaining has to do with an experiment that was discussed here on ATS with the slit and what happens to matter in one of these events.

He is also in the process of explaining some of the changes that are to occur in our DNA as a result.

Google Video Link

Oh and someone mentioned fractals.

Here you go.

www.abovetopsecret.com...