Christianity, a dummied down view of "The Truth"?

I can say for sure, but I am willing to agree with you no man can say for sure to move on to the real point of this thread.

Back in the day, when the New Testement was pened, the world and society was a much diffrent place. Most people where not functionally literate yet. That being far worst then my mispellings.

So just hearing a dull story about some dude that tryed to teach some higher ideals, to a bunch of people who were thought of as less inteligent because of their literate natured minds, the early church spun commonly understood mythologies of the time to liven the story and excite the minds of the people that were to learn.

Flash foward to modern days. Sure mankind is mostly literate, but then why do they cling, like you're trying to kill them, to the false truth, when everything points the way to the higher understandings? What are they fearful of? Was the mythological spin doctoring of the more human then human story of Ioshaua, the mythological iconic figure "JESUS", a bad idea?

People are afraid to die. They also have an infinite tendency to question their surroundings. So, add those two qualities together, and you get infinite ponderings regarding the nature of death. Most religions claim to save one from death, and some offer eternal life. People will then defend their source of eternal life with all they have. That's my simplest understanding of the issue.

[edit on 9-12-2008 by cognoscente]

What are they fearful of?

When your life is made up of myth taught as fact, how many are willing to let all the myth go and face free floating anxiety?

To step away from the masses and go down an unfamiliar road takes great tenacity and guts! Plus, it can mean separating from family and friends who find that you have changed and they can no longer relate to you!

This is why the road is considered narrow and cramped and few are finding it!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
This is why the road is considered narrow and cramped and few are finding it!

Well, that's one way of seeing it. Thank you. Sometimes the illusion that what one, myself, has in them others should have too blind.

Just because I feel the need to dig out absolutes in truth, and because I'm able to do this, doesn't equate that others can or are even willing.

Just because I feel the need to dig out absolutes in truth, and because I'm able to do this, doesn't equate that others can or are even willing.

It is something that I must remember, as it is not for me to impugn someone's conscience. That does not mean that I won't speak the truth when I have an opportunity, but I will not go out of my way to correct someone unless they give me permission. But, I will attempt to reason and then leave it up to the person.


No, I am not always successful at maintaining my cool. But I try.

Here's the thing. If they were actually following what the bible says and what Jesus says, then it would not be bad. Instead, they follow the symbolism and idol of Jesus, and follow the church leaders and are lead to do things opposite of what Jesus said.

Now if they were actually doing what Jesus said and then they were acting as today, then I think you might have a point. But as those people are hypocrites just like the pharisees mentioned in the bible, then I fail to see how I can dismiss it all because of those who do things in it's name that are bad and not inline with the teachings.

All I ever see for evidence that the bible is bad and a system of mind control is never the actual words of Jesus, but rather people who do things in the name of Jesus. What part of what Jesus said and taught people is so wrong that these people you point at are doing? For everything you point out they are doing wrong, I can point out a place where Jesus says to not do that.

This is how corruption works, and not just in religion but everything. It enters, it then distorts and manipulates and changes the entire meanings around while keeping the actual text and idols in tact. We can see it in religion. But lets go ahead and look at the US as another example - one which we can all see outside our religious beliefs.

We still have the physical constitution today, we still have the flag, the borders and the holidays. But the leaders of the country don't actually lead the people by what the constitution says. Instead, they just say everything they do is good or needed, and do what they want. They lead us to giving away our freedoms, they lead us to wars for profit, and they built up a central bank to rob the people. These things are not done by following the constitution. And when you agree with them - then you are called the patriot and a good citizen. If you try to go against what the leaders say by pointing out what the constitution actually says - then you are anti-american and hate the country.

And now as people don't actually understand the constitution, the entire concept is being thrown in the trash - not because of what it actually says, but because of what has been done in it's name. And the same exact thing is apparent in religion. People don't actually understand the bible, and the entire concept is being thrown in the trash. And once again not because what Jesus said is wrong, but based entirely on what people do in his name.

So anytime anyone tells me the US is bad and the concept should be destoryed, I will tell them when they can show me where the bad things those people did were following the constitution, then I will agree. And anytime someone tells me the bible is bad and the concept should be destroyed, I will tell them when they can show me where the bad things people did were following Jesus, then I will agree.

Name bad things the US has done, and I will show you where the constitution was ignored. Name bad things Christians have done, and I will show you where Jesus was ignored.

reply to post by badmedia



You're mistaken. You look for darkness so you see darkness. How would you expect to see light when you look for darkness?

Every man only needs realize that this "world" is but a garden and a clock. The desperateness of it all is a temporary trick of your mind to keep you from realizing the truth. What you should focus on is your reward. Every moment should be spent in perfecting your own being here so that you'll truly be that light you wish to see in the world.

When you frown upon others, because you see they are frowning, do you expect they should all of a suden smile at you? No, both of you are frowning.

The one truth you need to realize, but you're to scared to realize it, the darkness you see in the world is truly the darkness reflecting back upon you from the world. The darkness you see in the world is the darkness within your self.

Try it. Look for the light in the world and you'll see it. Know if you look for darkness in the world you'll see it.

Originally posted by badmedia
Name bad things the US has done, and I will show you where the constitution was ignored. Name bad things Christians have done, and I will show you where Jesus was ignored.

Thanks for your post. It really put into perspective some things i've been dealing with. Yes all of it has been corrupted. This quote at the end here is simply brilliant.

@ the OP: One thing that goes along with what you are saying is how the so called myths and fairy tale(ish) parts of the Bible are focused on in children's class, in the children's sunday school class. Jonah and the whale, Noah's ark.

Now I completely respect other's beliefs. I have my own and they certainly aren't typical though they do reflect the general philosophy of many I've met on ATS. How can I not respect other's beliefs? I totally do. What I have to call into question is those who never question their religion because they are afraid. What the OP is talking about is not commonly found on ATS, it's the type who refuses to consider any part of the Bible as symbolic or allegory.

It just doesn't make sense to me those people who think they will offend God if they consider even thinking about questioning something in the Bible as possibly symbolic. It's a lot like people who think it treasonous to even so much as question the government.

But then again, why risk offending God? Well many of us run into a wall of intellectual and spiritual growth and we had to risk it by asking questions, or we would have basically had to stop growing. I'm not sure you can stop growing anyway so you end up with the same thing regardless.

"Was the mythological spin doctoring of the more human then human story of Ioshaua, the mythological iconic figure "JESUS", a bad idea?" - Incarnated

If there was any spin doctoring on something as important as that, then absolutely it was a bad idea. The truth would have been much better.

reply to post by Novise


Some of your responces are awesome. How can a tree grow if it doesn't reach into new sky? It can't.

Man offends easily, God doesn't.

As for "THE TRUTH" being "Better", yes you can say that here and now, but not through the ages. The truth is infact here and now. You can have it, but you'll have to ask a question of yourself. Can your soul see the truth?
The Truth is been here for a while now.




[edit on 10-12-2008 by Incarnated]

Originally posted by Incarnated
You're mistaken. You look for darkness so you see darkness. How would you expect to see light when you look for darkness?

Every man only needs realize that this "world" is but a garden and a clock. The desperateness of it all is a temporary trick of your mind to keep you from realizing the truth. What you should focus on is your reward. Every moment should be spent in perfecting your own being here so that you'll truly be that light you wish to see in the world.

When you frown upon others, because you see they are frowning, do you expect they should all of a suden smile at you? No, both of you are frowning.

The one truth you need to realize, but you're to scared to realize it, the darkness you see in the world is truly the darkness reflecting back upon you from the world. The darkness you see in the world is the darkness within your self.

Try it. Look for the light in the world and you'll see it. Know if you look for darkness in the world you'll see it.

Tell me this, how is it that you may speak of the light and say there is no actual darkness at the same time? Obviously, there is both a light and darkness. You can't understand either if you don't experience either. Go ahead and try. Explain to me what light is without using the darkness as a reference. It's like trying to explain both hot to someone without including cold in the picture. Now, if you say these things are both temperatures and in that way alike, then I would agree. And if you say both good and evil comes from actions, then then I would also agree.

There is surely a difference between me walking down the street and stabbing a man, and me walking down the street and smiling at that same person.

As I see it, it's all about understanding what is good and what is evil so that you can decide and understand for yourself. To say there is no good and no evil in the world is just not true. It would be like me saying I am perfect in every way, when I am obviously not presently.

That I am looking at my own reflection is true. And in this way the universe is truly incredible because it automatically adjusts to the lessons I and others need to learn from. But to just say it's a reflection of me and no change or improvement is needed is just plain false. As I remove the motes from my own eyes, I will remove them from those around me as well. And I will change my reflection by changing myself and being the change I want to see.

Originally posted by Novise

It just doesn't make sense to me those people who think they will offend God if they consider even thinking about questioning something in the Bible as possibly symbolic. It's a lot like people who think it treasonous to even so much as question the government.

But then again, why risk offending God? Well many of us run into a wall of intellectual and spiritual growth and we had to risk it by asking questions, or we would have basically had to stop growing. I'm not sure you can stop growing anyway so you end up with the same thing regardless.

If you seek, you will find. How do you seek? You seek by asking the questions. And when you ask those questions, you will get the answers. There is only 1 reason not to allow people to ask questions, and that is to keep them ignorant of the truth.

reply to post by badmedia


There is the light and there is the darkness. The light is the true knowledge and the knowing and the darkness is the confusion of mind and the unknowing. When in the darkness it is known that there is light and darkness as it is assumed where there is darkness there must be light, but when you finally arive into the light you realize there is no darkness as when you are the light darkness (confusion of mind) no longer exists. There can be no darkness when all are light.

In the darkness you might think there is a battle between the forces of light and darkness, but that is because you're still lost in the darkness. As the darkness trys to play tricks on your mind making you think you are a child of the light sent to fight the darkness, but this is a mind trick to keep you from entering into the light.

When you truly enter into the light, the darkness flees away. In the light your realize all are your brothers. Satan is my brother. I wish him well. However sadly satan refused to see the light. Satan believed he was the light, because he was in darkness. Therefore Satan will be sent into the darkness where the is no existance, but not because he was darkness but that he didn't imbrace the light.

You mistake Light and shadow for light and darkness. However when you become the light that never fades then there can be no darkness around you.

Any other questions?

And then again, Our Father is all Light (energy).

In movies, what actors are good and what actors are bad? None, they are all actors. The "Good Guys" get the girl, and the "Bad guys" get the boot. But it is all within the script.

The darkness could never win because it never existed. The darkness was the confusion. The light will win because that is all there is. The light is understanding.

Don't you understand yet?

You are just talking about a higher level, in which the darkness serves the purpose of the light by being the opposite, of which is needed in order to form understanding and true knowledge.

I believe it is the hindu religion where at the end of each age the angels and satan all hug each other before the next "school year" begins.

Nothing makes a white dot stick out more than a black background.

I'm well aware of the higher level to all this, and I do know he is my brother.

However, I am still the student. And as the student, I must realize and understanding that while I can see I am in school, and I have nothing to fear - I must also realize that while the black background does make the white dot stick out more, it is still not the white dot.

Truth be told, if not for the evil things GWB did, I would probably still be asleep. Off in lala land. I disagree with just about everything he has done, but if I meet him - I'd have to shake his hand and thank him. Not because what he did was right, but because what he did showed me the truth. It is popular to hate the teacher.

It is my ability to see the differences between the light and the black background for which I am tested upon, not on if I realize I could not understand either without the other.

Understanding is only reached after confrontation.(that seriously just came off the TV - mall rats is on).

[edit on 10-12-2008 by badmedia]

The christians could not even preach their way out of a paper bag.

Originally posted by Incarnated And then again, Our Father is all Light (energy).

In movies, what actors are good and what actors are bad? None, they are all actors. The "Good Guys" get the girl, and the "Bad guys" get the boot. But it is all within the script.

The darkness could never win because it never existed. The darkness was the confusion. The light will win because that is all there is. The light is understanding.

Don't you understand yet?

You actually believe the confusion you are obviously experiencing is "THE light" don't you?

I think what you are saying is almost more dangerous than what the churches are teaching. You try to sound cryptic, and maybe to others who are confused themselves you are and therefore they are drawn to your confusion because you disguise it as having a deeper meaning.

Simple terms for what you are saying:

We are here to learn and to find the light. basically, the darkness serves as a buffer to help point "enlightened" souls further into the light. Salvation is in you and god is that "light." Jesus is an idol that serves no other purpose than to be a "symbol" that when looked at in the right way aka, the enlightened way, leads us to the light aka god which is you and all of us in our enlightened states.

Here is where this might be flawed. There is ONE G-d and *we* will not be part OF G-d in the sense that you are thinking. We will one day BE in His light, but not a part of a light.. He is the SOURCE of the light rays that you have stopped to stare at too long and now you are lusting after the rays.

You feel drawn to the light, but you fell for the same thing your "brother" fell for. You got caught up in the light rays eminating from the light source.

We will never be a part of the light source, but we can be in the warmth of the light source... thus the TRUE purpose of all of this. G-d will only accept those who don't gaze at the light rays and try to become that light source by using the rays to elevate themselves. This is how the fallen one can be in darkness and still use "the light" to deceive so many, including you.

Make no mistake. Right now, we are IN the dark. We are NOT in the light, but we can sense the light because that is what G-d uses to draw us to HIM, THE source of that light. The deceiver, wanting to be the source, is being allowed to use that light to fool those whose hearts are for themselves. These are the ones who will love the light more than they will love the source of the light.

G-d makes it clear that we are to be able to stand in the light and enjoy it for what it is worth without lusting after the position of G-d, the source of the light.

You will only have as much light as HE allows you to have. IF you feel you, in and of yourself, possess that light and will be a part of that light rather than in it, you may very well be the sibling of the deceiver.

G-d DOES want us to be in that light, but He knows we can never BE that light because He is life; we are not. He gives us life; we CAN'T give it to ourselves (not even through the small part of the light that we can sense). He will ONLY give life to those who have PROVEN that they understand that holy fear means they are not, nor ever will be *that* light and they respect Him and worship for who He is, not what we are.

You think the light comes from you and thus, you have fallen. You have cut out G-d and replaced it with "god." You can do all the good you want to mankind, but YOU canNOT and never WILL be able to give them what G-d can give to them... which is to say "Life." Your good is not good at all because it is deceitful and leads ppl away from the Source of the light.

Hope I made it "cryptic" enough for YOU to understand why you are of the same type as the deceiver and I hope I made it clear enough to those who are falling for this BS why this is a false message.

The OP cannot GIVE you Life and YOU cannot give yourself Life and that light that you sense is NOT the destination. It is you sensing the ONLY G-d who CAN give you Life. Tsk Tsk to all this spirtualism that promotes self over G-d. Anyone teaching you this crap is keeping you from the TRUE joy which is to say, the source of the light. Don't stop and lust at the "shadow" of the light thinking you can be in the light seperate from the source of the Light and don't ever think you can BE the light. You will miss out on what you were created for.



[edit on 10-12-2008 by justamomma]

Also want to add.... what you are trying to disguise as the truth is a lie.

KNOWLEDGE is NOT the goal because knowledge cannot give Life. Knowledge serves two purposes: It is a guide (not destination) to G-d who has INFINITE knowledge (which *you* will NEVER possess) AND it serves as a stumbling block to ppl who lust after self.

You, OP, (just like me) are and never will be anything without G-d, the only giver of Life. You do not possess knowledge save what G-d has given you and it is serving to show the true desires of your heart.

You think you are "enlightened" and yet you are like the bug drawn to the light and because you believe knowledge is the giver of Life and that you can attain that Life through the knowledge alone, you will go to far and *zap,* no more you because you have challenged the giver of Life in the most arrogant manner. The best you can do is quit leading others astray off the path of Truth because the knowledge is NOT the Truth... It is given BY the One who is Truth.

you have seen too much and yet you don't know what you have seen.

reply to post by Incarnated


Incarnated:

It is not your job to point out what is myth and what is fact to me. That job is already taken by a very great man, The Holy Spirit. He dwells within me and knows my heart and mind. If I have questions....he helps me find the answers. The Holy Spirit is my teacher and my helper until the time of Jesus' Second Coming (Advent). It is a unique relationship and hard to explain to others, but never the less it is very real and very happening.


Peace,
Grandma

reply to post by Grandma



You are sweet and you speak in the spirit of truth, mostly, but you assume your truth is the truth of others.

What you have is factual. I know this. But as you say others would argue against it. I wouldn't because I know the truth of the words you're saying.

Maybe you need to realize the number that you are in, those that have realized truths through the spirit, is lesser that then those that are searching but don't know the right way to do such. Then again, it isn't all that hard. You truly have to want it, and ask for it, and that's about it.

My point isn't to rob away understandings given to you by spirit, mine is in hopes to stir up some intrest in the path you already have stepped upon.

so on that note, thanks for the helping hand.

However, this all doesn't distract from the facts that christianity is a dummied down view of the real story. The point I was making that it might have been a choice to get this message to you through time by holy men, however their will come a day, maybe upon the christ's return, that the mythos will disolve and the truth shine forth.

reply to post by Incarnated


Incarnated:

Thank you, I think! You say I assume that my truth is a truth of others. What do you assume YOUR truth to be of?

Yes, it is a wonderful journey this path we walk together. The joy is truly unspeakable and the beauty of his essence is overwhelming. You are right. It is not hard to have this kind of fellowship but you do really need to want it and ask for it and be ready for the responseability it will entrust to you.



Peace,
Grandma