Vyamanika Shastra: A discussion

So what is this oft quoted, referred to source document?

This is a channeled document that is the basis for many of the UFO claims of ancient aircraft/spacecraft and often cited as a supporting document for the existence of Vimanas.

Who wrote it?

Maharshi Bharadwaja’s ‘Vymanika Shastra’ or ‘Science of Aeronautics’ as revealed (channeled) by according to one venerable Pandit Subbaraya Shastry and recorded in hand written Sanskrit script form, translated to English by G.R. Josyer.M.A [hons] FRES, MRSE.

Sometimes spelled Viamankia Shastra, it is also known as the:

Vymanika prakaranam
Vymanika shastra
Vimana shastra
Bruhad Vimana Shastra

This is a link to the english version of the document

The translator makes this comment in his preface

The Vymanika Shastra was first committed to writing between 1918 and 1923, and nobody is claiming that it came from some mysterious antique manuscript. The fact is, there are no manuscripts of this text prior to 1918, and nobody is claiming that there are. So on one level, this is not a hoax. You just have to buy into the assumption that 'channeling' works.

Another comment from the same preface

On the other hand, there is no exposition of the theory of aviation (let alone antigravity). In plain terms, the VS never directly explains how vimanas get up in the air. The text is top-heavy with long lists of often bizarre ingredients used to construct various subsystems. This includes items such as monkey skin, eagle bones, sea-foam, and many that are only named in Sanskrit. Often the recipes are a mix of plant, animal and mineral ingredients, and involve mixing these ingredients and cooking them at high temperature in a furnace shaped like an animal, such as a frog. One wonders whether we are talking about metallurgy here, or some kind of alchemy. Most of the systems are described as mechanical devices, powered by steam, electricity or even solar power; a number literally involve smoke and mirrors.

This is 'pro' study of the document

The above study, in its conclusion has this contradictory statement.

While no direct physical evidence exist today to establish that vimanas did exist in ancient times, literary works and epics aver that they did exist. Nevertheless, there is enough evidence to say that technology of aviation and related sciences did exist. It is not our claim that vimanas can be constructed from the contents of this work.

So for discussion, suspending disbelief in channeling for a moment (a very long moment) what can we make of this document?

Without actually being Indian, I really cant make out anything of it. I mean, it could just be random words for all I can tell. It make as much sense as writing say :
"The hovering flyktbulle is powered by slödderfnatt using the snigelpinne to control it".
IE none at all. So antigravity or not, at least I cant read it.

[edit on 8-12-2008 by merka]

reply to post by merka


It is a bit hard to work thru. I found that as I read it I would finish a section and go, what? Definitely some weird stuff. Part of that is the translation problem. Many words simply aren't known/it is not known what the English equivalent would be.

Interestingly, I wonder if this document is like Plato's T & C, people refer to it but have never actually read it. The highly complex methodology dictated to dye a pilots clothes was amusing.

I did see things that Cremo copied or referenced. He may be one of the few people on the planet who may have actually read this thing. I may be the second!

ELECTRIC GENERATOR
Two jars are placed on the peetha or stand. Each jar contains five cups filled with acids. Each cup has a churning rod with gear-wheels connected together. The wheels are revolved by hand while starting, and by the generated electric power afterwards. A darpana or mirror and gharshana manis are fixed above the gear wheels. The darpana and the manis absorb the sun's energy and transmit it to the acid cups. The acids, being churned, convert the absorbed energy into electric current, which will pass through the pancha-mukhee naala, or five-way-switch, to different points, and work the machines there.

A couple of points that I found interesting about the stories of Vimana, extraterrestrial warfare and the like aren't so much the fantastic stories that are told about guys flying these things around just using their own mojo or even the geological evidence that has been uncovered that appears to support references in the mahabarata(of which, I believe the vimanika shastra was a part) to nuclear warfare.
What I find most interesting is the references to knowledge of apparently flying machines at an age when machines of any kind supposedly didn't exist, let alone in the complexity referred to in the vimanika shastra.
I am sure I have diluted the specifics at this point, but one example would be the scope of units of measurement that people knew about in this ancient time. I have read statements that maintain the only reason one might need to be aware of such immense on one end and miniscule on the other units of measurement would be for something like nuclear engineering.

There are also several allegedly supportive insinuations made about how a mercury vortex engine might function and that were such an engine to produce and ionising effect on air molecules around a vimana that it might result in some funky optics as described in the ancient texts.

It is clear that through time, much knowledge is lost and about as much has to be relearned time and time again.
There's an ancient iron pillar in india which has some rather mysterious properties. If they are not simply serendipitous, then it is further evidence that in those times, knowledge of metallurgy was far more advanced that has been given credit for.

One might speculate that in times of great tragedy and war, that much of a culture is lost in the destruction.
Reading something like the mahabarata does wonders for bringing such ideas to life.

I went back over the two documents, the summary I found to be a good example of wishful thinking.

A lot of the material reads as 'magical', complex mixtures with odd procedures leading to vague results.

The pictures of the vimanias are the best, as aeronatutical capable as a box of chicken, but very creative and reflecting the viewpoint of flying temples.

Of course this material was 'channeled' by someone who would have been influenced by the age of flight-and streamlining wasn't a major concern then, or at least not until the 1918 as the engine power rose.

I noted while writing my reply that a anonymous ATS poster has put a message in - that doesn't show up. I have copied it and will post below.

Anonymous ATS post

A couple of points that I found interesting about the stories of Vimana, extraterrestrial warfare and the like aren't so much the fantastic stories that are told about guys flying these things around just using their own mojo or even the geological evidence that has been uncovered that appears to support references in the mahabarata(of which, I believe the vimanika shastra was a part) to nuclear warfare.
What I find most interesting is the references to knowledge of apparently flying machines at an age when machines of any kind supposedly didn't exist, let alone in the complexity referred to in the vimanika shastra.
I am sure I have diluted the specifics at this point, but one example would be the scope of units of measurement that people knew about in this ancient time. I have read statements that maintain the only reason one might need to be aware of such immense on one end and miniscule on the other units of measurement would be for something like nuclear engineering.

There are also several allegedly supportive insinuations made about how a mercury vortex engine might function and that were such an engine to produce and ionising effect on air molecules around a vimana that it might result in some funky optics as described in the ancient texts.

It is clear that through time, much knowledge is lost and about as much has to be relearned time and time again.
There's an ancient iron pillar in india which has some rather mysterious properties. If they are not simply serendipitous, then it is further evidence that in those times, knowledge of metallurgy was far more advanced that has been given credit for.

One might speculate that in times of great tragedy and war, that much of a culture is lost in the destruction.
Reading something like the mahabarata does wonders for bringing such ideas to life.

End of Quote

Hans if you want any help translating portions of the text, feel free to U2U me sentences to translate... I speak 6 Indian languages and have a working knowledge of Sanskrit... I might be able to detect some of the nuances in the language used.

The VS is a bizarre book... I dont hold much faith in it.

What I would love to see is a retrieved copy of Lore 6, secreted by the Nine Unkown Men. Sadly I dont think the VS is accurate.

This document is a hoax.

When I refer to ancient flying aircraft of india the Mahabarata and Ramayana are a much better source.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I agree Sky, it is a hoax but how did you determine that? It seems odd for you say things are hoax as you tend to believe lots of marginal information. But I commend your change of face.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
This document is a hoax.

When I refer to ancient flying aircraft of india the Mahabarata and Ramayana are a much better source.

Hey but Sky it was channeled, are you coming around to the idea that channeled materials are not valid? Or do you have criteria for determining what is or what is not valid?

What parts of original Mahabarat and Ramayana do you find compelling? Considering no supportive evidence has been found?

Thank you 44soulslayer for the offer, what pray tell is 'Lore 6'?







[edit on 9/12/08 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune


Lore 6 is the sixth volume of the collected works of the nine unknown men.

I think when the VS was "discovered" the authors claimed that it fit the bill for Lore 6; but I don't think it does.

As far as I know, none of the works of the nine unknown men have ever been found (that was kinda the point lol).


While I think Sky is right; I do find the VS interesting simply because it reads like sci-fi. The descriptions in it closely fit radar, espionage and signal interception, x-rays etc. Probably all made up, but as far as I can tell they all correspond closely to modern technology.

Nemaste 44

Lore 6 is the sixth volume of the collected works of the nine unknown men.

Hans: Hey something new, do you have link that explains this? [added comment - I found a source 44, no need to put up a link]

While I think Sky is right; I do find the VS interesting simply because it reads like sci-fi.

Hans: Rather bad Sci-Fi in my opinion- and the the plot is rather thin (lol) rather wrapped up with numerology and various other beliefs

The descriptions in it closely fit radar, espionage and signal interception, x-rays etc. Probably all made up, but as far as I can tell they all correspond closely to modern technology.

Hans: Yes but those interpretations can be made (as I noted earlier) by reading into descriptions. Magic and technology can sound similar at times, hearing and seeing people at a distance is a common wish in many cultures. Its like flying, people have dreamt of flying for hundreds of thousands of years, first by magical means then actually doing using technology.

As noted the the channeler may have had access to (at that time) modern concepts of these imagined technologies which were then being discussed in the budding world of sci-fi driven earlier by Verne and later by others such as HG Wells.

[edit on 9/12/08 by Hanslune]

Originally posted by Hanslune
So what is this oft quoted, referred to source document?

This is a channeled document that is the basis for many of the UFO claims of ancient aircraft/spacecraft and often cited as a supporting document for the existence of Vimanas.

Who wrote it?

Maharshi Bharadwaja’s ‘Vymanika Shastra’ or ‘Science of Aeronautics’ as revealed (channeled) by according to one venerable Pandit Subbaraya Shastry and recorded in hand written Sanskrit script form, translated to English by G.R. Josyer.M.A [hons] FRES, MRSE.

Originally posted by Hanslune
The translator makes this comment in his preface

The Vymanika Shastra was first committed to writing between 1918 and 1923, and nobody is claiming that it came from some mysterious antique manuscript. The fact is, there are no manuscripts of this text prior to 1918, and nobody is claiming that there are. So on one level, this is not a hoax. You just have to buy into the assumption that 'channeling' works.

Hi Hanslune, what is your opinion of this article about these same Indian texts?
Its not that I claim here that you tell a wrong story here, but this is what I reed here.
So which one is telling the truth?

In 1875, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century B.C. text written by Bharadvajy the Wise, using even older texts as his source, was rediscovered in a temple in India. It dealt with the operation of Vimanas and included information on the steering, precautions for long flights, protection of the airships from storms and lightening and how to switch the drive to "solar energy" from a free energy source which sounds like "anti-gravity."

The Vaimanika Sastra (or Vymaanika-Shaastra) has eight chapters with diagrams, describing three types of aircraft, including apparatuses that could neither catch on fire nor break. It also mentions 31 essential parts of these vehicles and 16 materials from which they are constructed, which absorb light and heat; for which reason they were considered suitable for the construction of Vimanas.

This document has been translated into English and is available by writing the publisher: VYMAANIDASHAASTRA AERONAUTICS by Maharishi Bharadwaaja, translated into English and edited, printed and published by Mr. G. R. Josyer, Mysore, India, 1979 (sorry, no street address). Mr. Josyer is the director of the International Academy of Sanskrit Investigation located in Mysore.

Source; www.world-mysteries.com...


[edit on 9/12/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by Hanslune
The pictures of the vimanias are the best, as aeronatutical capable as a box of chicken, but very creative and reflecting the viewpoint of flying temples.

Hans,

Unless I misremember, the illustrations found in the text were not inserted until several decades after the book was first written.

Seems like I recall that this info is also in the preface you quoted from.

Or, maybe it was in another preface at another website concerning this channeled text.

Harte

reply to post by spacevisitor


Howdy SV

Of the three out takes you provided the last two I agree with and they are noted in the book (in the preface I believe) the first one seems to be fake. As noted elsewhere a large amount of falsehoods about this document have been floated around to make it more 'mysterious' and ancient.

From all I can determine it was written out in early 20th century and translated in English by the gentlman noted above. There were attempts to make it look like it came from an earlier mystic but I don't think that was accepted by to many others. Hey even Skyfloating thinks it is a hoax -and that is saying something.

Hey Harte

That I don't know, if they were inserted later they did no favors for its believability! [edited, I took another look and the images seem to have been in the 1923 document but then that cannot be confirmed, to be sure one would have to go back to the original documents]

[edit on 9/12/08 by Hanslune]

reply to post by Hanslune


To my surprise I find right after your reply this doc.
I assume it could be of some value for the discussion here.

And the title is.

A CRITICAL STUDY OF THE WORK “VYMANIKA SHASTRA”
By H.S. MUKUNDA§, S.M. DESHPANDE§, H.R. NAGENDRA§§,
A. PRABHU§, AND S.P. GOVINDARAJU§

Indian Institute of Science, Bangalore‐560012 (Karnataka)

SUMMARY – A study of the work “Vymanika Shastra” is presented. First, the historical
aspects and authenticity of the work are discussed. Subsequently, the work is critically
reviewed in respect of its technical content. It appears that his work cannot be dated
earlier than 1904 and contains details which, on the basis of our present knowledge, force
us to conclude the non feasibility of heavier‐than craft of earlier times. Some peripheral
questions concerning dimensions have also been touched upon.

Source; cgpl.iisc.ernet.in...

reply to post by spacevisitor


Howdy again

Yes there appears to be multiple studies of this document. I suspect that nationalistic pride drove some of these looks. Trying to provide proof that Indian science had done this or that before the Chinese or the West. Althought the knowledge about the quality of Indian science has improved I'm personally uncertain how much they created that was original or at best they share co-creation credit with those in China, the west and elsewhere.

VS appears to be an interseting document, perhaps the guy who wrote it actually believed he was being told what to write by the guy be claimed it was from. The lack of supporting archaeological evidence is a killer too.

Imaginary and in the style of other types of Indian mythic based materials (ah 44 could you comment on that). I've read parts of the R and M and in some places they seem similar, but of course I cannot read it in the original Sankrit.

reply to post by Hanslune


Sure.

The way I see it there are two possible explanations:

1. The methods for obtaining materials described are literal. For example, when the author mentions ridiculous stuff like using "elephant's urine"; perhaps it really was elephants urine. The Baghdad battery worked using a simple acid and copper rod of sorts- perhaps elephant's urine has the necessary pH to drive an electro-chemical cell?

Dont forget that even though these things sound outlandish at first, there may be a plausible basis in the elements contained within those things like urine, milk or whatever. e.g. If I said that you could cure fever and headache by "Score off and crush up the bark of a willow tree. Distil the mixture for seven cycles and collect the herbal oils created; drink the oils"... you would think thats a bit of hokum unless you understand that willow bark contains salicylic acid... aka Aspirin!

2. The descriptions may be an attempt at communicating something way beyond the means of the author's understanding.

Thus what if the craft ran on gasoline or petroleum? What does that look like... yup you guessed it, urine. With nothing else to describe the fluid used, perhaps the author just thought "ahh well it looks like urine, lets describe it as urine".

Other examples could be describing wires as snakes, shape memory metals generically as "mercury", electrical impulses as some arcane force "laghima" or whatever... etc etc

Im writing a small book about ancient vedic warfare at the moment. Other theories I have include mantras as codewords... for example the descriptions of weapons launch sequences involve the use of mantras. "Indra focused his mind and uttered the mantra to invoke the brahmastra, which produced a pillar of light as bright as 10,000 suns" - to me that sounds an awful lot like a modern day weapons launch sequence... instead of saying "Authorisation Omega-64422- fox 3 GO", mantras are used to authorise launches of thermonuclear weapons.

Bit fanciful perhaps, but I like to think that there is perhaps some truth in it

reply to post by 44soulslayer


Or they could just be repeating or making up stuff that is pseudo magical.

Important to them but meaningless to us.

reply to post by Hanslune


Oh yeah of course. Thats another explanation - that its a hoax + made up. That choice always has to be considered when we are dealing with such topics.

A template , pure and simple. A good starting point. To a lesser degree , consider the modern works of a Jules Verne . That which is perceived , conceived , believed= can be achieved .